Fatima UFO coverup... proof that aliens are associated with religion

Originally posted by easynow
Danx... imho, your biased observation of this event has clouded your vision and your capabilities to see the connection.

You mean my non-faith/religious perspective, scientific reasoning objectivity has clouded my vision?

if you believe the jesuits fabricated the entire religious story then you are fooling yourself...imho

It's not my belief. It's the authors' conclusions.

you obviously haven't researched this..

What is undeniable is that the majority of people have had UFO/Alien experiences didn't see or notice any connections to religion.

Are you saying otherwise?

watch this video...it says thousands have sensed something evil and demonic in their abductions
www.youtube.com...

Wow, something in a video is compatible with your beliefs so it must be true, right?
Just imagine what else you could accept if it didn't interfere with your religion

But let's address the video.

At around 0:46, there's a man that compares the abduction of the kid in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, with haunted houses. He says and I quote: "What the film was saying was, the same people that run UFOs run haunted houses".

Besides knowing nothing about movies - he claimed Close Encounters was "the first movie about UFOs" - he apparently also knows nothing about Steven Spielberg.

His position on aliens is as clear as it can be, since he has made numerous movies about them or included references to aliens in his movies in some shape or form.

Now note that Spielberg has also made a movie about ghosts, or demons if you want to call them that: Poltergeist. And guess what, he didn't draw any connections between the two phenomena. They are different things.

So this person that says that the same people that run UFOs run haunted houses is only telling you his interpretation of the movie, and he is wrong.

I didn't saw anything pointing to the thousands of people that sense something evil and demonic in their abductions, but even accepting that there were thousands, they'd still be the minority.

And besides, concepts like evil are very different to different people. I'm guessing you, being the religious person you are - as well as the people in the video- like to personify evil, as being the devil or demons. Other people don't. So that's a subjective argument.

You know what's funny though? The things aliens (allegedly) do to people, that you classify as evil and demonic, we have done and do to animals. In many cases, we abduct and implant things in them for the animals' own good, but obviously I doubt they know that.

Could it be that the evil and demonic things these people say the aliens did to them are simply things and for purposes we, like the animals, don't understand at the moment?

Oh, but you believe this fits with the concept of fallen angels, and the nephilim and other great stories in your religious book.
Well, try looking at this phenomenon without trying match it with your religion, and perhaps then you won't be called biased... and better yet, you won't sound like an hypocrite when you call someone else biased.

If UFOs were associated with religion, wouldn't one expect that everyone that goes through such an experience to understand it as such?

umm.. me thinks this could be part of the end times deception.

Ah, of course. When religious people can't explain something, or something factual goes against their beliefs: it's the work of the devil!

you have not done so either, ..so your counter argument is at the same level

I'm basing my argument on the conclusions of the research of people who have done it!

You are basing your argument on your personal religious beliefs.

lmao....how do you know what i have experienced ? to make a comment like this is totally nuts imho...

fyi....i have seen a ufo and other things

Hence why I said "correct me if I'm wrong". And I would appreciate it if you would refrain from calling me crazy, since I have never resorted to such sort of classification of your arguments. I'll grant you that you have been ironic though

And since you have seen a UFO, can you please describe what you saw that made you think it was connected to religion? Thank you.

I mentioned before that I found find it rather disturbing that the apparition never said who she was!

As it stands now, based on my research, the being never said that she was the Virgin Mary.

When Lucia asked the apparition for her name, the being said that she would give her her name on the 13th of Oct.

But she never did.

So Lucia continued to call her "the little Lady" because of this.

When Lucia asked the being where she was from, it simply pointed up to the sky -- and said that too but that's it!

Yet, she DID tell them to build a chapel in the Virgin Mary's name at that location. In other words, she didn't tell them to build a chapel in HER name, but instead she told them to build one in the Virgin Mary's name. So what's that all about?

The only thing about this apparition, at least in terms of what she was wearing that suggests that she could have been the BVM was that she had some beads on her person but nothing was said about a cross connected to those beads to indicate that it was rosary. But the seers nevertheless assumed it was a rosary, nevertheless. I believe they said the apparition was holding them in one of her hands but I need to check on that again.

But what was the crystal ball she had hanging around her neck all about? And what about those gold loop earrings she wore -- yet the seers could not see any ears because that part was covered up? Maybe she was listening to an ipod? Lol...

In any case, the priest who was dispatched from the Vatican to interview the seers on their Marian sightings when they first started experiencing them and throughout the duration of the sightings kept meticulous notes on everything and those notes were saved in the Vatican Library/Sanctuary of Fatima. The information in this post about the apparition are those ORIGINAL statements made by Lucia. (the parish priest kept notes too).

So continuing on this track, not only do have a suspicious looking being who refused to give her name, on the 13th of Oct. we have what has since been called the Miracle of the Sun which by most witness accounts looked like a silver disc that was ... dancing in the sky!

So because this object resembled what in later years we would call a UFO -- and because the being who showed up at that time was not dressed like one would expect the Virgin Mary to be dressed like -- and more significantly, she had BLACK EYES and when she spoke, HER MOUTH DID NOT MOVE. And there were a few other odd things here that were... odd.

So when you put the whole kit and kaboodle together... presto! You've got an ET masquerading as the BVM but only imperfectly where there are obviously a few things waaaay off here...

So my question is, why are they showing up as religious icons? And because the being requested that the seers build a chapel in the Virgin's name at that location -- why are they promoting The Cult of Mary? My guess is that they have a vested interest in keeping humanity at good behavior hence why somewhere in this beings' message is one of Peace and Love and warnings that if things keep up as they are now, then bad things will happen. This is basically the same message UFO contactee's and abductee's get also... the same message only in a different package.

So how are we supposed to interpret all of this? But one thing for sure, it's all about numbers. They show up as Mary because Christianity is one of the largest populated religions in the world. And they also are targeting the largest Christian church (the Catholics) by showing up as Mary and not Jesus because historically Mary is the mediator between God and man. And because there have already been many Mary apparitions throughout the ages.

Nevertheless, I'm still finding such deceptive practices disturbing but only because the Catholic Church is so corrupt where the Church even took advantage of this event for their own twisted agenda's regardless that it was, forgive the pun, handed over to them on a silver platter (disc)..... hmmm. It's unfortunate.



[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by Palasheea
So my question is, why are showing up as religious icons? And because the being requested that the seers build a chapel in the Virgin's name at that location -- why are they promoting The Cult of Mary?

Can you tell me who said this and when? Was this information relayed to the children on the 13th by the being, or was it later?

It's important to understand if this was exactly what the being told them, or that this message could have somehow been 'tainted' by the cover up or pressure from the Church/Jesuits.

Thanks

Originally posted by danx

Originally posted by Palasheea
So my question is, why are showing up as religious icons? And because the being requested that the seers build a chapel in the Virgin's name at that location -- why are they promoting The Cult of Mary?

Can you tell me who said this and when? Was this information relayed to the children on the 13th by the being, or was it later?

It's important to understand if this was exactly what the being told them, or that this message could have somehow been 'tainted' by the cover up or pressure from the Church/Jesuits.

Thanks

Fernandes,Joaquim; D'Armada,Fina,"Heavenly Lights: The Appartions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon", Anomalist Books, 2007, p.3

Fernandes,Joaquim; D'Armada,Fina "Heavenly Lights: The Appartions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon", Anomalist Books, 2007, p.4

Fernandes,Joaquim; D'Armada,Fina "Heavenly Lights: The Appartions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon", Anomalist Books,2007, p.5

Fernandes,Joaquim; D'Armada,Fina "Heavenly Lights: The Appartions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon", Anomolist Books, 2007, p.10

Fernandes,Joaquim; D'Armada,Fina "Heavenly Lights: The Appartions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon", Anomalist Books, 2007, p.11


www.abovetopsecret.com...
Fernandes,Joaquim; D'Armada,Fina,"Heavenly Lights: The Appartions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon", Anomalist Books, 2007, p.17-18

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Fernandes,Joaquim; D'Armada,Fina "Heavenly Lights: The Appartions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon", Anomalist Books, 2007, p.240-241

[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

reply to post by danx


thanks for your reply,

You mean my non-faith/religious perspective, scientific reasoning objectivity has clouded my vision?

yes...good answer. non-faith perspective means to me, you wont have an opinion based on all the possibillitys wich makes your opinion weather you like it or not "biased"

What is undeniable is that the majority of people have had UFO/Alien experiences didn't see or notice any connections to religion.

so you admit there are some that noticed a religious connection ?

Wow, something in a video is compatible with your beliefs so it must be true, right?

its a good possibility. or maybe its just a coincidence ?.....uh huh...

So this person that says that the same people that run UFOs run haunted houses is only telling you his interpretation of the movie, and he is wrong.

he was using the movie to make his point. how do you know he is wrong ?

Could it be that the evil and demonic things these people say the aliens did to them are simply things and for purposes we, like the animals, don't understand at the moment?

here you go comparing apples to oranges again. two wrongs dont make a right .....

Well, try looking at this phenomenon without trying match it with your religion, and perhaps then you won't be called biased... and better yet, you won't sound like an hypocrite when you call someone else biased.

i consider all aspects ...something i believe you are not capable of ...''

I'm basing my argument on the conclusions of the research of people who have done it!

You are basing your argument on your personal religious beliefs.

see this is my point.....you arent seeing the whole picture so your perspective is biased.....admit it......

i base my conclusions on all perspectives...fyi

And I would appreciate it if you would refrain from calling me crazy, since I have never resorted to such sort of classification of your arguments. I'll grant you that you have been ironic though

i didnt say you were crazy.....i said the statement you made was nuts....

the only reason i resorted to that phrase was because i didnt expect something like that coming from you.

by the way thats a compliment...just so you know....

reply to post by Palasheea


Could you please post the footnotes whose numbers appear on the pages you posted?

Thanks.

reply to post by Palasheea

Thank you Palasheea

Originally posted by easynow
yes...good answer. non-faith perspective means to me, you wont have an opinion based on all the possibillitys wich makes your opinion weather you like it or not "biased"

Like with all things in this thread and case, I guess it all depends on your interpretation of things. What I mean by non-faith perspective is that I don't let any beliefs or faith get in the way of my analysis. You may interpret it as you like to suit your argument - it hasn't stopped you before.

so you admit there are some that noticed a religious connection ?

I'm beginning to think that you only read some of the things in my posts.

I have never said no one claimed religious connections. In fact if you read my last post you will notice that I built a whole argument around the hypothesis of thousands of people - as you claimed, even though you gave us nothing to assert this - that connected their UFO/Alien experiences with religion.

he was using the movie to make his point. how do you know he is wrong ?

Again, you must've not read everything in my post, because I explained this.

here you go comparing apples to oranges again. two wrongs dont make a right .....

I didn't say anything about right or wrong. What do you even mean by that? Are you saying we shouldn't abduct and implant devices in animals? To keep track of their migratory, mating habits? Or to help endangered species procreate?

Perhaps you mean other type of experiments, ones that the aliens allegedly do, like taking genetic material to clone us.
We have cloned other animals. We have genetically crossbred different species of animals.

What exactly is not comparable between what the aliens allegedly do and mankind has done to other animals?

see this is my point.....you arent seeing the whole picture so your perspective is biased.....admit it......

Oh I can see the whole picture alright, and it's exactly because I'm not a person of faith that I can step back and see the whole picture.

I didn't dismiss your theory. I evaluated all the points you raised and links you provided in your posts and didn't find any of them of being either credible or factually correct.

You on the other hand only have considered possibilities that involve religious meanings.

i base my conclusions on all perspectives...fyi

If by all perspectives you mean the perspective that "UFOs are from god", or that "aliens are the nephilim" or even the perspective that they are "evil and demonic", then yes I guess you could say you have based your conclusions on 'all' perspectives.

reply to post by Palasheea

so far she's not doing that and this is frustrating for those of us who are trying to explore all of those alternative views on what this event was really all about.

first of all i just want to clear this up....i am a he..... not a she..

i have talked about three different versions of this event... so how am i not helping you to explore the "alternative views " ?


in case you didnt understand my theories ....here they are,



#1- ufo/alien event with religious connection to the BVM


#2-ufo/alien event with religious connection with Mary apparitions helping to bring the N.W.O. and the antichrist


#3- staged ufo/alien event by the military (project blue beam)



the only ones i havent brought up yet is:


#4 ufo/alien event to influence culture for an agenda unknown

#5 angelic event only to lead people back to God and Jesus


i cant think of any other scenerio"s ...can you ?






[edit on 3-2-2008 by easynow]

easynow, which one are you leaning toward? Are they from God or are they from Satan?

I have to admit that at this time I'm confused where you are coming from on this topic.

There's a big difference between saying something is from God, or saying that it's from Satan.... am I missing something here or do you really believe that UFOs and ET's are demonic? If this is the case, then you're not alone because many people out there believe this too, especially non-denominational evangelistic Christians. Anyway, if we can get some idea on where you are right now with all of this, that would be great!

[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

reply to post by Palasheea

easynow, which one are you leaning toward? Are they from God or are they from Satan?

"are they from God or Satan ......."that is the million dollar question.....

i believe #1 theory but have not ruled out the possibility of theory #2


wich one do you think is the real story ?

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Palasheea

 

easynow, which one are you leaning toward? Are they from God or are they from Satan?

"are they from God or Satan ......."that is the million dollar question.....

i believe #1 theory but have not ruled out the possibility of theory #2



wich one do you think is the real story ?

I think they are either ETs or transdimensional terrestrial beings whose main place of residence is here but they may be originally from other places...

In this case, I think they are ETs but perhaps the 2 collaborate. My guess is this may be true also.

I think it's a cop out to fall back on religion to try to figure out what's going on here. We already know that UFOs are here and even the man-made ones are the result of information given to us by beings who are more technologically advanced than we are.
There are too many inconsistencies in the Fatima Incident to say with any certainty that those apparitions are of a purely religious nature. And that the Church tampered with whatever messages were conveyed by that being for their own purposes only causes more confusion and uncertainty in this case.
Think of it this way. Look how long it took for the 3rd Secret to finally be revealed to the public. Lucia said that the Lady said it was to be revealed in 1959 (need to check exact year again -- could be 1960 or 61) but pope after pope kept putting off revealing that Secret to the public for reasons only they know. But do you think that if they really thought that secret was from the Virgin Mary they would have refused her request to reveal that secret in 1959? Do you really think that the Vatican would not follow through with a request made to them by the Mother of God?? I don't think so. And the reason why they didn't reveal that secret back then and waited so long to finally do that is because they know that that secret is not from the Virgin Mary but from the Jesuits!! Think about that one because once you do that, it puts everything into a different perspective.


[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

reply to post by Palasheea

think they are either ETs or transdimensional terrestrial beings whose main place of residence is here but they may be originally from other places...

In this case, I think they are ETs but perhaps the 2 collaborate. My guess is this may be true also.

do you think they are flesh and bone kinda alien ?

seriuos question....do you think the grey"s could be up to this and are making us see what they want us to see ?...


www.anomalist.com...
Books: The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials

a witness told California psychologist Richard Boylan that she had encountered a "spaceman." When he invited her to look closely at the face of the "human" spaceman, she replied, "Oh my! It's not human after all, it's one of those Grays.

just wondering if you wanted to speculate on the possibility the grey"s are making us see things ?




anyways its SuperBowl time....gonna go watch the game...bbl

go..Giants !

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by jackcowboy

 

thanks for your reply,

it also says in the Bible that Mary was a regular human but she was a virgin

Mary did not have an “immaculate conception.” The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38)

www.gotquestions.org...
What does the Bible say about the virgin Mary?

Joseph and Mary had several children together after Jesus was born. Jesus had four half-brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55).

this kinda contradicts what you said....not saying your wrong

it was before Jesus, I don't need anything to back it up because Jesus had older brothers

[edit on 3-2-2008 by easynow]

It does kinda contradict what I said but the bible itself is filled with contradictions, one thing about this quote you have posted:

Mary did not have an “immaculate conception.” The Bible doesn’t suggest Mary’s birth was anything but a normal human birth. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus (Luke 1:34-38)

That is also a contradiction, it says she did not have an immaculate conception and then it says Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to jesus, giving birth to a child when you are a virgin is an immaculate conception, I personally believe there was no immaculate conception and that Mary was not a virgin, its a catholic fable, a fairytale for the gullible, like those peasants at Fatima

reply to post by Palasheea


hi Palasheea ,

i will never believe that the jesuits created the entire story. i do believe they micromanaged Lucia in some ways. but you will never ...i mean never....get me to believe that they made up the entire story.

here is Lucia"s version of the events:
www.miraclerosarymission.org...
The Story of the Apparitions of Fatima


i want to also say that i dont believe the entire third secret was revealed...and there is also a possibility that there was a fourth secret.

now i could see the jesuits maybe telling her not to say there was a fourth secret or maybe to not tell the entire truth about the third secret. i can see that as a strong possiblity.

www.timesonline.co.uk...
Vatican denies hiding the full truth about the end of the world -Times Online




now this article i found is really a must read for sure and i think it may be the answer you are looking for ( i think its the answer we are all looking for imho) because you seem to cater to the other dimension theory wich is imho definately worth exploring.

The nearer they come to you the better they are able to tune-in to the thought waves (i.e. electromagnetic waves which are modulated by your thoughts) you are radiating out from your bioplasma body. For example, in the Marian apparitions at Fatima (Portugal), the children saw a ball of light which resolved into a man-like angel as it got nearer to the children.

www.ezinearticles.com...
Plasma Life Forms - Aliens from a Parallel Earth

After nearly 40 years of studying the whole UFO and alien question,as well as many kindred subjects such as the Fairy Faith in Western Europe etc., I am in no doubt whatsoever that the so-called Marian Apparitions are the product of an alien `religious personage` deception. Close study shows many similarities and characteristics associated with several classic UFO encounter cases.....the `angel hair` residue, the `sun` seeming to fall from the sky, telepathically communicated warnings and apocolyptic prophecies etc. This type of deception is particularly insidious since it is ususally targeted at innocent children who then describe these visions as being of `Our Lady`.The Vatican hierarchy has long since known the truth behind these apparitions, which is why it will never,for example, officially pronounce upon the more recent Medjugorje in Bosnia apparitions as being yet another divinely inspired miracle ! Nor is revealing the truth a serious option since it could seriously undermine the faith and beliefs of millions, and inevitably throw new light upon the much earlier and still officially recognized apparitions at Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalajara etc. As an addendum, it should be noted that this whole New Testament story of Mary as virgin mother of Jesus bears a striking similarity in almost every detail to the older pagan Sun God births (and deaths) mythology...in a line that includes the ancient Egyptian god Horus, Attis. Dionysus, Mithra and others ! Taking this study even further, one is inevitably drawn to the ancient Sumerian records and teachings which tell of extraterrestrial `gods`(the Anunnaki.....or Elohim, and later Nefilim in the Hebraic texts) who held dominion over this Earth for thousands of years....and perhaps still do ! Could it be these same extraterrestrial beings who are behind the Marian Apparition deception phenomena.....with an underlying motivation and agenda that we are still not able to fathom even now ?

Could the third secret be the real name of the woman who appeared? There are many questions about the Lady of Fatima.
My take is it was Isis/Ishtar who visited the children. She was incorporated as the Virgin Mary because Isis' cult was so strong in Rome. Isis was a popular Mother Goddess in all the cultures in the areas at the time.

I'm about to start the third book in the Fatima trilogy, 'Fatima Revisited'. I find it very disheartening to read the evangeligal, born again Christian posts; to try and equate UFO's with what is really Mesopotamian mythology is another subject altogether; the idea that these entities are agents of the devil is laughable and primitive.

If we have any chance at all of understanding the encounters then we have to rise above our fears and simplistic view of the world and cosmos. The amount of these American Christians is to do with a simplistic understanding of patriotism that became muddled after 9/11 in my opinion. It's very scary for these people to see a large, complicated and ego destroying universe instead of one that feeds a black and white/ no need to think very deeply attitude.

There are many experienced Christian scholars out there like Bart Ehrman for one, who when confronted with the absense of evidence for Jesus and biblical history became much more open minded with regard to how they had only ever looked at the world through 'faith'.

If Fatima is to be understood then 'religion' itself must be seen within a broader and older frame rather that one that supplements hate, small mindedness and, not least, the pockets of these simpletons who preach this superstitious childishness.


[edit on 9-8-2008 by irishdave]

[edit on 9-8-2008 by irishdave]

[edit on 9-8-2008 by irishdave]

reply to post by irishdave


thanks for your post,

the idea that these entities are agents of the devil is laughable and primitive.

is it really ? Satan has been diluting God's message and our understanding of him ever since Eve took that bite into the Apple. so how could you be so bold as to say this is not a possibility and is laughable ?

i find your opinion to be uneducated and biased.

If Fatima is to be understood then 'religion' itself must be seen within a broader and older frame rather that one that supplements hate, small mindedness and, not least, the pockets of these simpletons who preach this superstitious childishness.

what i am getting from reading your post is that you are anti religious and are refusing to see the religious implications of this event because you think its not being put in the proper context of your views of the cosmos.

nobody can prove if it was truly a message from God or if it was it a trick of the devil, but to say these postulations are childish without having any real evidence to support your broader cosmic viewpoint on this ... leads me to believe you have a specified agenda.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by easynow]

When Eve bit into the apple?

Hmmm, that says it all, really. If you believe Adam and Eve were literally real people then anything is possible as far as manipulation is concerned so I wouldn't need any agenda at all.

I'm actually concerned with facts as opposed to tripe, sorry.

Whats interesting about the fatima case and has been virtually ignored by most researchers is the prediction that the apparitions would occur. I'm wondering if the Jungian idea of a collective consciousness is of interest to many people here? Granted, the physical photos are harder to accommodate into this scenario but the empty vessel of the visitation itself allowed it to have many meanings imposed upon it which, to my mind, is more in keeping with a deeper psychological occurance that any specific religious one.
That said, when anthropologists approach a primitive tribe initially they are wary of the mindset and world these people have lived in. I suppose, like the Christian posters, these advanced visitors might be seen as demons even though its just an advanced culture. What a pity if we ended up with the same stunted outlook.

[edit on 9-8-2008 by irishdave]

I should clarify my use of the 'empty vessel' wording: I mean that many different interpretations could have been made because of the silence of the 'lady'. I find re-reading the first book of the Fatima trilogy that I distrust more and more the Jesuit influence even regarding documents and statements that are supposedly free from their interference. One can look at how Christian apologists tried to affect the Testimonium Flavianum as a prime example.