Fatima UFO coverup... proof that aliens are associated with religion

Originally posted by easynow
in my opinion i would have to believe that since this was before ufo"s and flying saucers were common knowledge that they might not have known what they were seeing

That is what I'm saying. If 70,000 people saw a "silver disc" in 1917, we can assume many survived into the 50's and 60's when the UFO phenomenon would be popular and the "flying saucer" description was in use. Wouldn't some come forward and say, "That is what we saw back then! We thought it was the sun and Mary but now we realize it was a UFO and alien!"

It's like if someone from the 1st century time traveled to our time, they might think a car was a great beast with silver teeth (the grill), eyes like fire (the headlights), a forehead like the sea (the glass windshield), etc. But once they become acquainted with technology they would say, "Oh. I see. It's a car."

So I'm asking if anyone of them were able to put two and two together to say it was a UFO in actuality or is this a modern conclusion by non eye witnesses?

[edit on 2/3/2008 by AshleyD]

my great grandmother was there the day nossa senhora de fatima (she came from a town 5 mins away from fatima) appeared to all those people, according to her it was raing then it suddenly stopped, and everything was dry around them as if i never rained, then the sun started to "dance" in the sky and she said what looked like stars started falling from the sky and there was a huge panic, she said it seemed like armagedon

reply to post by AshleyD



i have never seen any eye witness testimonies other then Lucia"s (one of the children involved)

the fact that there is no pictures or video( i am sure there are pics and video) to be seen because it was confiscated by the Church tells me that it was some kind of silver disk that they dont want you to see.

but you do bring up a good question concerning anyone coming forward later in life..

gonna have to look around

Originally posted by tankthinker
my great grandmother was there the day nossa senhora de fatima (she came from a town 5 mins away from fatima) appeared to all those people, according to her it was raing then it suddenly stopped, and everything was dry around them as if i never rained, then the sun started to "dance" in the sky and she said what looked like stars started falling from the sky and there was a huge panic, she said it seemed like armagedon

thanks for your post tankthinker,

thank you for sharing that info

did she say anything about a silver disc ? or any kind of disc ?

stars started falling from the sky

very interesting... not sure if ive heard that before

reply to post by tankthinker


Wow! That's cool she was there to witness the events! Did she specifically say it was the sun or a silver dick like object?

reply to post by easynow

the fact that there is no pictures or video( i am sure there are pics and video) to be seen because it was confiscated by the Church tells me that it was some kind of silver disk that they dont want you to see.

That is what makes it suspicious. All they show are the massive crowds looking up but never what they are looking at and that's the good stuff we want to see! Not only the crowds. Not saying it was a UFO or a Virgin apparition (again, it doesn't matter to me) but what are they hiding? Since that area was mostly Catholic, it makes sense if the "female being" they saw was automatically assumed to be Mary.

But please tell me what you can find about people coming forward. I'd love to know if any of the original witnesses themselves said it resembled what they now to be a UFO.

reply to post by AshleyD


yes i am gonna look into any other witness reports, but i have a feeling i wont find any imho.

as far as when someone put the " ufo " in this story i am assuming it would a recent idea. the book heavenly lights came out in 2005 and it definately puts the ufo idea in this event.

Joaquim Fernandes, Ph.D., and Fina D'Armada, Authors, Heavenly Lights:
The Apparitions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon © 2005; and
Celestial Secrets: The Hidden History of the Fatima Cover-Up © 2006,
who reside and work in Portugal as historians: "Because of the many
testimonies of disc-shaped craft, which started out silver, but became
transparent and revealed the bodies of three beings inside. There were
strange angelic interfaces.

www.perceptions.couk.com...






www.anomalistbooks.com...
Heavenly Lights: The Apparitions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon








[edit on 2-2-2008 by easynow]

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Palasheea

 

en.wikipedia.org...
Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FYI....2.1 billion Christians and 1.2 billion are Catholic

so i dont see how you could say thats not much..... '

'


[edit on 2-2-2008 by easynow]

I'm not seeing that information anywhere on that wiki page link you posted. Not that I'm saying that it's not there but after scanning over that page, I can't find those numbers you quoted... Could you tell me what section of that page you got those figures?
PS -- just looked again at that wiki page and I'm not seeing those figures you quoted from that page anywhere on it. sorry.

But in any case, according to The World Religious Statistics Summary, on a world wide basis, there are MORE Catholic Christians than non-Catholic Christians.

Catholic and Orthodox Christians are about 63% of the Christian population.

Numerically Christianity is dominated by Catholics and near Catholics. A little over one half of the world's Christians are Catholic, about 53%. About 11% belong to the very similar Orthodox churches. Together Catholics and Orthodox believers are about 63% of the Christian population.

www.geocities.com...

Here's a break down of these figures:

World Religious Statistics Summary

Catholic & Near Catholic versus Protestant
Catholic & Near Catholic (Catholic, Orthodox, High Church Anglican) - 65%
Protestant (Protestant, Independent, Low Church Anglican) - 38%
Other - Mormon, Christian Scientists etc. - 1.3%

Catholic & Near Catholic
Catholic - 53%
Orthodox - 11%
High Church Anglican - Some portion of 4%

Protestant Protestant - 17%
Independent - 19%
Low Church Anglican - Some portion of 4%

[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by AshleyD

 

yes i am gonna look into any other witness reports, but i have a feeling i wont find any imho.

as far as when someone put the " ufo " in this story i am assuming it would a recent idea. the book heavenly lights came out in 2005 and it definately puts the ufo idea in this event.

[edit on 2-2-2008 by easynow]

Actually, two researchers and authors presented information in support of The Miracle of the Sun being a UFO -- they are Jacques Vallee and Jim Mars (in his defining Ufology publication Alien Agenda] -- hence why each one wrote the Forewards to Fernandes' books.

I don't know who was the first to state this connection but their work came out much earlier than those books by Jocquim Fernandes... (Heavenly Lights and Celestial Secrets) who along with D'Armada researched this connection more extensively and in much more depth. Suffice to say, their work and conclusions in this area of research is beyond reproach.

But Fernandes and D'Armada, who are both Portuguese, have been researching this topic on a formal academic level since the 70's where many key witness' to the Fatima event were still alive back then -- whom they've interviewed many times... Much of their work is based on interviews conducted by those who actually witnessed the Fatima Event on a first hand basis including the Seer's family members (siblings). They also took photographs of these people...


[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

reply to post by easynow


The expression "Solar disk" is a common expression, when we look to the Sun what we see looks like a disk.

The common shape of a flying saucer is a disk although we do not see it as disk, unless we are under or above it.

If, in 1917, in Fátima, the people had seen a "standard" flying-saucer then they wouldn't have called it a disk, unless they were seeing it from below, in which case they did not have any way of distinguishing a disk with the apparent size of the Sun from the Sun itself.

PS: I have as many reasons to believe in Marian apparitions that I have to believe in extra-terrestrial UFOs.

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by easynow

 

PS: I have as many reasons to believe in Marian apparitions that I have to believe in extra-terrestrial UFOs.

Hi Armap... good morning!
Could you clarify that last sentence?

reply to post by Palasheea


I don't have enough proof to believe or dismiss Marian apparitions and I don't have enough proof to believe or dismiss UFOs as extra-terrestrial crafts.

My opinions about things based more on belief than on facts are (even more than my other opinions) open to eventual changes based on new facts or new interpretation of previously known facts.

The fact that I do not believe in something today does not mean that I can not be convinced of it in the future, in the same way that I can be convinced that things that I do believe today are wrong,so, things that I can not prove as false I have to consider as possible truths as I consider that what I think is true may be wrong.

Things like religion, extra-censorial perception, origin of UFOs, ghosts, etc., are things that I have on my list of things for which I need more evidences to have a better founded opinion.

That is why I keep on looking, I am one of those people that pick up a dictionary to see what is the meaning of a word, so I apply the same principle to all the subjects of which I am ignorant and that I would like to know.

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by AshleyD

 

the fact that there is no pictures or video( i am sure there are pics and video) to be seen because it was confiscated by the Church tells me that it was some kind of silver disk that they dont want you to see.

I hope that you are aware that in 1917 it was not as easy as it is today to pick up a camera and go to an event like that to film it.

I think that nobody filmed the event, because while there were some newspapers that could publish photos there was no TV at the time and even the (some years latter) common news pieces before the start of movie projections in theatres were not common (if they existed at all in Portugal) enough to be an incentive to film what most people in the newspapers thought was nothing of importance.

PS: about the photos that are available only showing the people and not the sky, my sister pointed that the photographer was from a Jewish family, so he may have avoided taking photos of a an event that was against his faith.

Thanks Armap for sharing this information with us. I know it's rather personal information but due to your active participation in this forum, one thing is clear, you ARE involved in some kind of search for the truth about these matters but you also have a natural curiosity about them too. Nothing new here. A lot of people have an interest in these topics even though they themselves have not experienced any of them on a first hand basis.

As for myself, I'm a lot like you. If I don't experience it myself then I'm "on the fence" if it's true or not. But the good news is that if you are searching for answers, the universe will help you find them eventually in one way or another. If you can just keep an open mind about that then I think you've got a pretty good chance of being on the receiver's end of this ubiquitous information system.



[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by AshleyD

 

the fact that there is no pictures or video( i am sure there are pics and video) to be seen because it was confiscated by the Church tells me that it was some kind of silver disk that they dont want you to see.

I hope that you are aware that in 1917 it was not as easy as it is today to pick up a camera and go to an event like that to film it.

I think that nobody filmed the event, because while there were some newspapers that could publish photos there was no TV at the time and even the (some years latter) common news pieces before the start of movie projections in theatres were not common (if they existed at all in Portugal) enough to be an incentive to film what most people in the newspapers thought was nothing of importance.

PS: about the photos that are available only showing the people and not the sky, my sister pointed that the photographer was from a Jewish family, so he may have avoided taking photos of a an event that was against his faith.

Armap, the red arrow in the image below is pointing to what possibly could be a section of what was showing in that sky at that point sometime around when The Miracle of the Sun occurred. I find this VERY intriguing!! Didn't you see this one? It's from those photo's you gave us a link to.

reply to post by Palasheea


hi Palasheea,

the wikpedia page states the amount of Christians in the 5th or 6th paragraph. wich states that there are 2.1 billion christians.

however i did not include the wikipedia page about Catholics (my bad, sorry) wich also states that there are 2.1 billion Christians and also states that there are over 1 billion that are Catholic

The term "Catholic Church" is normally associated with the Church that is led by the Roman Pontiff, currently Pope Benedict XVI, and whose over one billion adherents are about half of the estimated 2.1 billion Christians.

en.wikipedia.org...
Roman Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

membership at the end of 2005 was 1,114,966,000, approximately one-sixth of the world's population.

Lol, that's not saying much because the majority of Christians throughout the world are Catholic and you better believe it that they are believers of these Marian appartions!

i believe it says alot...







[edit on 3-2-2008 by easynow]

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by easynow

 

The expression "Solar disk" is a common expression, when we look to the Sun what we see looks like a disk.

The common shape of a flying saucer is a disk although we do not see it as disk, unless we are under or above it.

If, in 1917, in Fátima, the people had seen a "standard" flying-saucer then they wouldn't have called it a disk,unless they were seeing it from below, in which case they did not have any way of distinguishing a disk with the apparent size of the Sun from the Sun itself.

PS: I have as many reasons to believe in Marian apparitions that I have to believe in extra-terrestrial UFOs.

there seems to be alot of different explanations of what was seen...

More seriously, the description made at Fatima, Portugal, OF A
SILVERY DISK WHICH FLEW THROUGH THE SKY, WAS SEEN BY SEVENTY THOUSAND
WITNESSES AND WAS PHOTOGRAPHED AS IT MANEUVERED

According to the very words of the Reverend General Vicar of
Leiria, who was one of the witnesses, the lady came in an 'aeroplane
of light,' an 'immense globe, flying westwards, at moderate speed. It
irradiated a very bright light.' Some other witnesses saw a white
being coming out of the globe, which several minutes later took off,
disappearing in the direction of the sun.

www.ufoseek.org...
Vallee Says Fatima Event Was UFO

Among the crowd was Professor Almeida
Garrett, of Coimbra University, a scientist, who described the
phenomena in the following terms: 'It was raining hard, and the rain
trickled down everyone's clothes. Suddenly, the sun shone through the
dense cloud which covered it: everybody looked in its direction. IT
LOOKED LIKE A DISC, OF A VERY DEFINITE CONTOUR.

i would love to find out more about this Professer Almeida Garrett and if she filed a report with this Coimbra University concerning this event

reply to post by AshleyD

reply to post by tankthinker


Wow! That's cool she was there to witness the events! Did she specifically say it was the sun or a silver dick like object?

lmao...i am sure you meant disc ?.....




[edit on 3-2-2008 by easynow]

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Palasheea

 

hi Palasheea,

the wikpedia page states the amount of Christians in the 5th or 6th paragraph. wich states that there are 2.1 billion christians.

however i did not include the wikipedia page about Catholics (my bad, sorry) wich also states that there are 2.1 billion Christians and also states that there are over 1 billion that are Catholic

The term "Catholic Church" is normally associated with the Church that is led by the Roman Pontiff, currently Pope Benedict XVI, and whose over one billion adherents are about half of the estimated 2.1 billion Christians.

en.wikipedia.org...
Roman Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

membership at the end of 2005 was 1,114,966,000, approximately one-sixth of the world's population.

Lol, that's not saying much because the majority of Christians throughout the world are Catholic and you better believe it that they are believers of these Marian appartions!

i believe it says alot...







[edit on 3-2-2008 by easynow]

No excuse easyone and I'm hoping you will not be posting misleading information again just to support your views on things.

Posting information and a link next to it to indicate that that's where the information is coming from is out and out deception. Please don't make this a habit in this thread OK?

This time I'll let it slip but next time you do that... I'm outta this thread.

[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

reply to post by Palasheea

But Fernandes and D'Armada, who are both Portuguese, have been researching this topic on a formal academic level since the 70's where many key witness' to the Fatima event were still alive back then -- whom they've interviewed many times... Much of their work is based on interviews conducted by those who actually witnessed the Fatima Event on a first hand basis

it is a good question in regards to who was the first to put the ufo aspect in this event .

according to your above statement i would have to assume they were postulating this in the 70"s and that would at least give us a timeline to at least that.



in regards to the picture of the crowd and you have pointed out an anomily in the picture:

i dont know to much about photos but my opinion is ,they dont seem to be looking in that direction of the anomily but i could be wrong.

could it be a glitch in the development of the photo ?

reply to post by Palasheea


the name is easynow...you keep saying easyone...lol

i did not post anything misleading.....imho

if i did would you please point it out ?

i am only human and i make mistakes just like you.....

if you cant see around that...then i dont need your input.





[edit on 3-2-2008 by easynow]