Fatima UFO coverup... proof that aliens are associated with religion

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posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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Phantomfire, everything you write is based on Lucia's books AFTER the initial sightings and when she was in the 'care' of the Jesuits which mean that we can't take them as being legitimate at all considering they replicate earlier works of Jesuit prayer books and vague, non-descript timelines.

If you can refer back to the original documents you will see that where you mention Jesus and Joseph, it occurs after a visit from high ranking Catholic officials who were concerned about the effect of Lucia's proclomations and the fact that she was a little girl who had never heard of anything otherworldly and so was obviously only able to traslate what she was experiencing in a religious light.

There was no catholic referals at all in the initial messages and the only time where we have any sort of religious connection (I'm speaking about the ORIGINAL experience and not the descriptions afterwards) was when Lucia asked the being where do you come from and it pointed to the sky and said the heavens.




posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by irishdave
There was no catholic referals at all in the initial messages and the only time where we have any sort of religious connection (I'm speaking about the ORIGINAL experience and not the descriptions afterwards) was when Lucia asked the being where do you come from and it pointed to the sky and said the heavens.

I would like to point (I think I already did that once) that in Portuguese we don't have different names for sky and heaven, for us is always "céu".



posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 07:01 PM
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Dave,

A major portion of the *original documents* involve the writings and interviews conducted by Manual Formigao.
Manual Formigao was at the final two visitations of September 13th and October 13th (which includes the day of the reported miracle).


The interviews by Formigao of the 3 children were conducted on September 27th, October 11th, October 13th, October 19th, and November 2nd of that year.
The October 13 interview occurred hours after the so-called miracle of the Sun.

Formigao's interviews appear entirely trustworthy as they include even:
a) the responses of the children that contradict each other. (such as regarding the earrings).
b) as well as Francisco answering to the question of "When our Lady was over the oak tree talking...Did it seem as if she were not speaking...(and) did you see her lips move?" to which Francisco replied "YES"(she did NOT appear to be speaking) and "NO" he did not see her lips move, (and "no" he could not ever hear what the apparition said to his sister and cousin).
c) and a prophecy about the end of world war I that if not misunderstood/misremembered by Jacinta would be considered to have failed immediately.


In these same Manual Formigao interviews(September 27, 1917), Lucia is asked:
"On the 13th of October will the Lady come alone?"

answer: "St. Joseph and the Holy Child will come, and a little time afterwards the world will have peace."

question: "Did she teach you any prayer?"

Lucia's answer: "Yes, and she wants us to recite it after each mystery of the Rosary."

M.F.: "Say it."

Lucia: "O my Jesus, forgive us and deliver us from the fire of hell. Take all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need."


This "Fatima was a UFO" conspiracy(born out of the works of the author of Celestial Secrets) tries to use the "original documents" mantra to twist Fatima away from a religious context....but the very SAME "original documents" the author of Celestial Secrets undoubtedly uses to build his case(Formigao writings included), contains information that without question demonstrates that the Fatima Apparition was a "religious claim" before the so-called miracle event of October 13th.


Being a "religious claim" doesn't exclude other possibilities though, such as hoax accompanied by mass hallucination, demon influence(Revelations 13:13 !!), 1-in-a-million-chance that the UFO showed up at the precise day and time, schizophrenia, or actually being from God.

-
Formigao interview September 27th:
Question:"Did you ever ask who she was?"
Lucia: "I did, but she said she would only tell us on the 13th of October."



[edit on 17-8-2010 by Phantomfire707]



posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by Phantomfire707
Being a "religious claim" doesn't exclude other possibilities though, such as hoax accompanied by mass hallucination, demon influence(Revelations 13:13 !!), 1-in-a-million-chance that the UFO showed up at the precise day and time, schizophrenia, or actually being from God.

I agree, some people look more interested in proving that this was not religion-related than it was an Aliens/UFO event.

PS: it's Manuel, not Manual.



posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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I'm not going through what seems to be a very deeply discussed thread right now, but I would just like to add for what it's worth, that many UFO sightings even today resemble the Christian cross. And really, considering the wide variety of shapes that people seem to see in the sky, getting one that looks like a cross doesn't seem too surprising to me, regardless of whether or not it's alien in origin.

However there's no reason why we shouldn't consider the implications. If UFO disclosure turned out to involve religious symbols, things could get really messy, really fast. Depending on the agenda (and identity) of whoever is behind these UFO's, there's no reason to dismiss this possibility.



posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
PS: it's Manuel, not Manual.


I may have mispelled it 100 times by now.

In my mind's ear I heard it as Man-u-AL.



posted on Sep, 29 2010 @ 09:57 AM
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knock apparition with sun miracles in Fatima style
September 11, 2010 message predicts Tribulation is now

knockapparitions.com...

The Tribulation has already started according to new message



“The Tribulation has already started and will not end until 2016” according to Irish visionary and seer Joe Coleman who claims to have received this and other messages from Our Lady and the Holy Spirit about the End Times on 11th September 2010



Ireland – Sunday 12th September 2010 – The 7 year Tribulation, referred to in the Bible as the period when God will finish His discipline of Israel and finalise His judgment of the unbelieving world, has already started and the second half will take place from midnight 2012 to 2016 according to Irish visionary and seer Joe Coleman.



Coleman, who says he is an authentic visionary and seer for Our Lady, the Mother of God claims to have received this message from Our Lady and the Holy Spirit on Saturday 11th September 2010.



The message, according to Coleman, contains details of future world events, the arrival of a single global currency, the Anti-Christ and a one world religion. Another reference, to what is known to many Christians as The Rapture in the lead up to the Second Coming, is also contained in the message. The period from 2013 to 2031 if referred to as “The Trinity Years” where the teachings and theology of all the churches into one which will be led by the Anti-Christ.



Dublin born Coleman, aged 56 years, publicly predicted twelve separate apparitions of Our Lady at the Knock Shrine, Co Mayo, Ireland since 2009, attended by thousands. According to Joe Coleman “This is the first message I have received which actually gives dates for events leading up to the Second Coming of Christ on Earth although it does not reveal a date for the actual Second Coming itself, which has not been revealed to me.



“As a Catholic I was not aware what the Tribulation meant because the Second Coming of Christ is not something that is actively preached by the Catholic Church. Why I don’t know. This is the most unusual message I have received so far because the messages were given to me by both Our Lady and the Holy Spirit. And even though I have been told about future events in previous messages, most them simply warned of the urgency for people to turn back to God and to pray to avert world disasters. Now the urgency is even greater if people are to save their souls.”



Extract from the message:

From the Holy Spirit

“The tribulation has begun. The second half from midnight 2012 to 2016. The earth will witness major disasters. 2013 is of great importance.



The Trinity years - 2013 – the two stands for Christ. The zero stands for the Father who has been taken off the earth and is not talked about anymore. He is not honoured and glorified the way He should. The Father is not being honoured, especially on the Sabbath. Remember, keep holy the Sabbath Day which is Sunday. Keep holy every day the Father has given us. Three is the Holy Spirit who is here to prompt the people to think of the Father. God the Father has a great love for all his children but they don’t love him and this is very disturbing for Him. It hurts Him. Jesus Christ asks that we pray to Him and with Him. He will then call them his followers.



And they, his followers, will be taken up into the clouds at the great calling of the Trumpets. The Father loves his people but the people don’t love the Father.



The Trinity years. “2013 to 2031 there are 18 years – 666. The first 6 stands for the uniting of the currency of the world. The second 6 stands for the presence of the Evil One in the world’s leader. The third 6 stands for the uniting of all religions into one and removing all the teachings and theology of all the churches into one which is led by the Evil One.



May 15th 1948 - Israel was reborn (no further elaboration just this sentence)



Joe Coleman claims that the next apparition of Our Lady in Ireland will take place at Knock Shrine on the 25th September 2010 at 3pm.



For the full message Joe Coleman received on 11th September 2010 please see under Divine Messages. Knockapparitions.com is a not-for-profit website set up by volunteers who believe in the messages received by Joe Coleman and who pray for world peace.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:27 AM
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I have lost the password to my other account, so I have to say it with this one.

Please ignore that link I was posting around about the "DOMA collective". What it claims is absolute lies and bunk.

Most everything it claimed has been debunked. I can't post a link to it here because this is a new account, but please search this forum for "I need some help from some well researched Christian users" and then "I need help from Muslim users" to see some threads that explain the flaws.

Don't waste your time on the crazy site, it tricked me for a while. I just now took the time to see that what it was all bunk, and really goofy obvious bunk at that.

I think most people here could already tell, but this is in case anyone starts to take it seriously. It is hilariously wrong.

I scattered a bunch of links through this thread, but I hope that people didn't beleive the garbage or at least read this. It is a HUGE waste of time because it takes a while to read, and it is all lies.

EDIT: Looks like I can post links

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These are just some of the flaws and lies there. Don't fall for it.
edit on 4-12-2010 by NamelessMonster2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 12:51 AM
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Never give up of the physical explanation of the things, if even they would be the souls of death.



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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Hey everyone. I didn't know there was an interesting topic about the fatima event until I tried to do a few research about the 'dancing sun' that I witnessed when I was a kid. I didn't know what exactly that was but I don't seem to forget what I saw up until now. I'm already 27yo and I'm not sure what exactly was my age at that time when I saw that phenomenon here in the Philippines. (maybe less than 4years old sometime between 1985-1989) I was with my sister, older brother, and my uncle when it happened.

Details I can remember are: it happened in the morning (not sure the exact time since I still don't know much about anything that time) , I can look at the sun without being blinded, it changes color and it blinks, it moves in circular formation clockwise/counter clockwise. I asked my uncle why is it that we can look at the sun straight without being blinded and he just said something that I don't recall. We stared at it a couple more times for few more minutes then went on playing afterwards ignoring what just happened.

During my teenage years, I still can't forget that event but I kinda told myself that maybe what I saw was just an eclipse of some sort. by year 2000 that we have the internet and can access all sorts of information, I was exposed to a lot of UFO documentary early 2010, and it never really occurred to me that what I saw was connected to UFOs until I tried to search for any videos of a dancing sun or anything like it on youtube and I was surprised to see that there was a video of it taken at Medjugorje. there was a similarity with what I saw vs the video at Medjugorje (the blinking and it happened in broad daylight) so I tried to google any related article about it and I saw this forum.

Now, I'm not sure if it's really UFO related or God related. I hope it's UFO related cos it will make more sense. I grew up as a catholic but that was because of my parents, they were raised as die hard catholics. Now that I'm older and has too many questions about the existence of God/angels/demons/virginmary/etc that doesn't have concrete proof, I can say that I'm Agnostic. You can ask me anything about what I've experienced, but I think I already gave all the details on what I saw. I'm sharing this so that maybe I could also get a reasonable answer about it.

here's the youtube video that was similar to what I've experienced: HERE
(by the way I noticed when It blinks, somehow i think it was like a morse code of some sort. please have a look.)


-Leo



posted on Jan, 31 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by leoedano
 


Leoedano --- Welcome to ATS ---- The sunlike object that you could have seen..... could have been a classic Foofighter in its landing stage. I was a witness to such a sun-like UFO, one night, back in the winter of 1976; approx 40 miles west of Washington D.C. The approx. 1 mile away object appeared to be in a vertical descent {approx. 40 mph,} appearing beneath the low cloud cover and disapeared just beyond a high mountain ridge. The non-blinding fiery red-orange UFO, lit-up the whole Eastern sky and the mountain valley in front of us. It had a diameter of approx. 1,000 feet, with no fiery tail. It was one of most beautiful object's that I ever seen, with fiery red-orange plasma currents licking all around it.

Foofighter's

Erno86
edit on 31-1-2012 by Erno86 because: added a word
edit on 31-1-2012 by Erno86 because: spelling
edit on 31-1-2012 by Erno86 because: grammar



posted on Dec, 30 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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Dr Jacques valle -anatomy of a phenomenon

dr valle's father- catholic; mother lutheran

dogma of the assumption 1950 (Heaven is a tangible place!)
comet jet airliner - 1952
IDH Interdimensionalhypothesis by dr jacques vallee - wikipedia

bernhard riemann wikipedia
hypersphere; hypercube wikipedia



posted on Dec, 30 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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I have yet to post a thread, but when I do, is it ATS protocol to place the words "undeniable proof" or "irrefutable evidence" in the thread title? (whether it's undeniable proof or not...) -Does that give the thread more credence? Or is it a way to accumulate more views?
-Just looking for tips here
edit on 30-12-2012 by canucks555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2014 @ 02:46 PM
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I found something really interesting in relation to this in the quote below when faced with events and things they were unable to understand, would attribute them religious meanings.

I watched a show about the cash-landrum incident link here en.wikipedia.org...

happened in texas 1980, 3 in the car, the grandma the mom and the moms small boy. glowing ufo landed in the road in front of them. one of the ladies was a born again christian and said don't be afraid, it's, jesus, she got out of the car and touched it.. they all ended up with radiation sickness especially her....the military would never come clean about what they were exposed to.

if someone in 1980 could mistake a glowing ufo in the road as jesus, then those people back then then surely could have interpreted what they saw in the same way.



danx

Originally posted by easynow
this is the greatest ufo sighting of the 20th century

this ufo was witnessed by at least 60-70 thousand people. there was a silver disk sighted and an entity claiming to be the mother of the universe and the mother of Jesus.

to me this is undeniable proof that religion and ufo"s are related in some way.


Or.. the undeniable proof that, just like throughout ancient times, people when faced with events and things they were unable to understand, would attribute them religious meanings.

This was 90 years ago, in rural Portugal.

Heavenly Lights: The Apparitions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon


What is crucial here was going back to the original testimonies and stories. Lucia, the primary "seer" ("experiencer"?), later entered a convent, and her story became progressively more and more attuned to the Catholic paradigm, her writings made subject to approval by Church authorities. The authors have put less emphasis on these later "official" versions, and relied more on the first reports. Lucia originally never said it was the Virgin Mary she saw, it was the adults around her that jumped to that conclusion. Based on the time and culture they lived in, how else could they have interpreted it?




i believe there was a huge cover up within the Vatican and the Goverments involved to downplay the incident


Oh there was a cover up alright, most likely to spin the event to the gain of the Church and it's religion.

The Church - or any other religion - would never downplay an incident that would benefit them.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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The best research work on Fátima sightings (to my knowledge) was done by Prof. Joaquim Fernandes (portuguese UFO researcher) and Fina d'Armada (portuguese jornalist).

Their book "Aparições de Fátima e o Fenómeno OVNI" (wich translates to something like "Fátima apparitions and the UFO Phenomenon") is a must (IMO) to understand these sightings.

I´ve read it some years ago and got to the impression that ID hypothesis was the best to explain it.
Prof. Joaquim Fernandes research seems leaning to some Vallée´s conclusions regarding the UFO phenomenon. At least that´s my interpretation of it.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by easynow
 





some of the pics that i have seen on the web...i cannot find them anymore.


That is one hell of a cover up,

wait for the World wide web to be invented and then allow the pics to be posted and then delete them.

Maybe you cant find them anymore because the internet is actually quite large and holds much info and pictures and not that there is some cover up.

Care to describe some of those pics, care to attempt to convince readers you are not mistaken and are confusing pics of something else or some other event you seem to think were pis taken at Fatima?




there was 70,000 people there and there had to be more pictures than we are being shown.


So how were pictures taken from the people who took them if there are pictures we are not being shown?

Shown by who? the Vatican? Family members (children or grandchildren of people there)?



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by easynow
 





why is there no photograghs on the web ?.....coverup ?



Maybe, maybe not.

Why do you expect there to be? How many photos do you think there should be?

Coverup? if so why not cover it up and not allow exposure?



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by easynow
 


Not every light in the sky is an alien manifestation. The Fatima events were not typical of ufos. The message of Fatima had to do with sin, the existence of hell, the need for repentance - strictly Catholic elements. Very far from the usual ufo encounters.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 12:53 PM
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EnPassant
reply to post by easynow
 


Not every light in the sky is an alien manifestation. The Fatima events were not typical of ufos. The message of Fatima had to do with sin, the existence of hell, the need for repentance - strictly Catholic elements. Very far from the usual ufo encounters.


Not really. Not when the entire history of "ufo encounters" is considered. The modern age is just the tip of the iceberg.



posted on Jan, 7 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 


they looked at the original records and no religious overtone, she was a pretty lady, the children didn't know who she was they had doubts, but were convinced by others that it must be mary.

lucia was recorded as saying,after the lady left but just before she disappeared from view ,lucia said "there, the doors are closed, can't see her anymore.






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