The Mark of the Beast Identified

reply to post by helen670

Th Golden calf was an image of an earth animal....

Others who have linked the pagan gods to celestial bodies would disagree with that.

I understand where you are coming from, really I do. I used to be Christian in the main stream widely accepted sense...even then I struggled with the idea of the cross not being an idol and yet it behaved that way in every sense of the word! Even if we were to go with the retort whereby the calf represents and earthly animal, by that same logic, the cross represents an earthly execution devise in capital punishment. It's history as a religious symbol / idol, however, goes further back, and appears to be clearly representative of the earth on it's axis and it's orbital patterns...whereby the cross represents the solstice and equinoxes...but that's another story.

So the calf is earthly, if we go with the cross being "heavenly" then we have to accept it's clear reference to the earth in space and in orbit around the sun...on the other hand if we say "no, it represents the human sacrifice of a convicted heretic and his means to how he was executed" (or any other way one chooses to dress it up) then we have to agree it's "earthly" just like the calf and as such is an idol, and to take it one step further...if Satan is the beast or in league with the beast, and the cross was used by those following him (inadvertently or not) in the earthly government and at the urging of the religious establishment at the time, then we must also see that this idea strongly suggests that the cross is in fact the mark of the beast.

Obviously, (and I am not so naive to believe that they do) most Christians do not believe this, but then, I also think most Christians have not logically thought this all out either. What really perplexes me, however, is that when they (by that I don't mean all christians, because some have recognised this and don't keep graven images or crosses around for these reasons and more) are finally shown this stream of thought, and these things are pointed out, that they so viciously resist changing their views. but then as I posted in another thread, there is this excellent quote coming out of the 19th century by a poet named Thomas Moore who wrote: "But Faith, fanatic faith, once wedded fast to some dear falsehood, hugs it to the last."

[edit on 6-2-2008 by skyshow]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by heliosprime

 

Now that we've cleared that, are you done yet?

Myself, I've been "marked by the beast" ever since I accepted my totems.

Are YOU ready to keep the sabbath, reject satan, and follow Christ? Are you ready to tell others to reject the mark of the beast?

Originally posted by helen670

An Icon, is not Idolatry!
When God instructed Moses for building the Arc of the Covenant: Ark of the Covenant "And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover.
Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.
The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them.
The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover." (Exodus, 25:18-20)This was the first Icon of the Heavenly realm.

There is one rather large difference here in your ill-logic............

GOD instructed Moses to create the ark, please indicate the scripture where GOD instructs man to create an image of himself, Christ, Mary, and "icon" whatsoever......................

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

What part says a image of the "virgin" in a partially eaten cheese sandwich is "holy"...........

reply to post by heliosprime


I thought the traditional Sabbath was that of the Jews, Saturday. I have come across this theory before....the World Wide Church Of God, whose founder Herbert W. Armstrong believed he was a messenger of God and who made predictions about global events. He held similar beliefs about the sabbath, and some theories i have read say that the roman catholic church is "the Beast" and the practice of sunday sabbath is the mark. there is a free book The Prophosised Endtimes by Roland Weiland..... i found it a tedious read but it is an in depth argument for this theory on the "the Beast and his Mark" and vatican conspiracy buffs might like it.

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Coptic version:
"If you do not fast as regards the world, you will not find the kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a Sabbath, you will not see the father."
Interesting.
i take from this that it does not matter what any church or religion tells us....what day is best, what time, that the sabbath is a covenant between each individual and god and that it is important to keep that time with God as sacred. I hope to hear your thoughts on this.

reply to post by heliosprime


Hi/
If you are referring to me that FOOD with form of Holy images present on them are my kinda of belief and faith, then you are quite mistaken!
A Christian who has faith and knows in his/her heart that God exists, there is no need for further miracles of any sort.
In the early Years of Christianity, many elders sought the Deserts for the hermit life and to attain hardship through loneliness and prayer, many lived with wild animals for companionship, nothing more.
In the desert they lived with no images because they already had the image in their hearts.....to pray and fast and do the work of God humbly.
Many lived in caves with other elders in remote land.....each did their daily work and ate very little for sustenance(monks do not eat meat)and ate whatever they themselves grew on the land, a little bread(milled their grain, for flour) and they prayed for all of mankind,slept very little as prayer was their life.
An Image that is present in the Icon(and no statues)is for what cannot be captured with the mind.
A child would see the image on the Icon and wonder what it means....it tells a story.
All of the Icons in Church or those that are present in peoples homes are there to remind them of the future heavenly realms.
People put a picture or a painting in their homes because they enjoy to look at it...the eye captures more then the mind.
The first Icon made was by Saint Luke, the Apostle of Christ...
Another image of an Icon is that of Christ, being the '"Mandylion" not made by hands!
Therefore an icon in the Church or those of a Christian home represent Christ incarnate.
The very nature of Christ having been in the form of man come in the flesh...God Incarnate.
quote///When God became incarnate on Earth, he changed human nature by uniting the human and the Divine; for this Christ is often called "The New Adam."

This image of Christ appeared under the following circumstances: during Christ’s life on earth, there lived in the Syrian city of Edessa a certain Prince Augarus.
John of Damascus (died 749) mentions the image in his anti-iconoclastic work On Holy Images,[5] quoting a tradition that Abgarus had requested an image of Jesus and Jesus himself put a cloth to his face to produce the image. The cloth is described as being a "strip", or oblong cloth, rather than a square, as other accounts hold.
www.answers.com...

IX
helen

Originally posted by atlasastro

Coptic version:
"If you do not fast as regards the world, you will not find the kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a Sabbath, you will not see the father."
Interesting.

The entire purpose of a "church" is to teach truth to GOD people. To set them free of death. As a sign of understanding the truth the LORD expects his children to obey his law as did is son. The sabbath, the other holy days, and the ten commandments are and act of "faith" that you personally understand his message. The "grace" of Jesus gives us a chance to repent of our worldly sins. But we must show GOD we hear and understand his will..................

To have heard this truth and ignore it, and in fact rebuke it by stubornly ignoring the sabbath in favor of a more "convienient" way of worship is to accept false teachings. A "mark" that you willingly disobey him as does satan...........

reply to post by helen670


Please refer to the link below.......

www.marypages.com...

Read the text and it is a prayer to "Mary" as queen of heaven? This is having a false god before the LORD GOD.

This idolitry is caried to an extreme as in the following link to such insanity........

news.bbc.co.uk...

[

The entire purpose of a "church" is to teach truth to GOD people. To set them free of death. As a sign of understanding the truth the LORD expects his children to obey his law as did is son. The sabbath, the other holy days, and the ten commandments are and act of "faith" that you personally understand his message. The "grace" of Jesus gives us a chance to repent of our worldly sins. But we must show GOD we hear and understand his will..................

To have heard this truth and ignore it, and in fact rebuke it by stubbornly ignoring the sabbath in favor of a more "convenient" way of worship is to accept false teachings. A "mark" that you willingly disobey him as does Satan...........

I think the church has many purposes. Not all entirely in accordance with Gods purpose or the words of Jesus. Remember .... Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. And then this:

"You don't understand who I am from what I say to you.

Rather, you have become like the Judean's, for they love the tree but hate its fruit, or they love the fruit but hate the tree."

Jesus' teaching threatened the status quo of judaism and broke away from the view of a messiah that would deliver the Jews with a sweeping victory over they're oppressors...Jesus' teachings broke away from the very idea of a church saying God was the god of all and not solely the Jews so this very idea can also be applied to modern day churches and religious establishments. So really I would argue there can be no one true church no matter what purpose they believe they serve, no matter what branch of Abraham they were born of. " all that you need is within you," " split a piece of wood and I am their, lift a stone and there you shall find me."

reply to post by atlasastro


It would appear we agree on this issue. Today there are many "super churches" that teach falsely, mainly to steal money from GOD. This too is a "mark".

Just image a BOSS who owns everything, makes zillions of dollars, then tells you ok, just give me 10% and you keep the 90%..........yet there are those who would steal from the 10%...............

reply to post by skyshow


You said, "...if Satan is the beast or in league with the beast, and the cross was used by those following him (inadvertently or not) in the earthly government and at the urging of the religious establishment at the time, then we must also see that this idea strongly suggests that the cross is in fact the mark of the beast."


Holy moly! Now, wouldn't THAT be something.

reply to post by themillersdaughter


The orignal "sign" of christians was the fish. The physical cross is also an idol. A graven image. And yes, perhaps you are on to something here, perhaps a "mark" just as "ash" wed. is a mark of the beast that is very obvious.

reply to post by heliosprime


Hi/
I can honestly tell you, that the Only Worship that I do as a Christian is to God alone.
Or the *Lords Prayer ''Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.......etc

The Mother of God(Theotokos)and the Saints are not worshipped.
The Theotokos is held in high esteem as the Second Woman..the first being Eve.....
Scripture.... Even as the Red Sea remained untrodden after the passage of Israel,
so also did the Virgin remain undefiled after giving birth to Emmanuel.
She is the gate proclaimed by the Prophet Ezekiel through which God entered into the world "while remaining shut" (Ezekiel 44:2).......
Whatever THAT web page you pointed me to,it is not of my belief to Worship the Saints or the Theotokos as there is only One that Worship belongs to!
I worship God alone..."No man hath seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, Who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him," (John 1: 1 8) and "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save He Who is of God, He hath seen the Father" (John6:46)
As for the Saints.......The Lord "glorified those who glorify Him" (I Kings 2:30), that He is "wondrous in His saints" (Ps. 67:35), and that He is the "Savior of the body" of the Church (Eph. 5:23)
"the prayer of a righteous man availeth much"(James 5:16)....Need to remember that the dead are not DEAD in Christ, but alive with him.
He is worshipped and glorified in His saints; He "is wondrous in His saints" (Psalm 67:35). As He said, "I will dwell in them" (11 Corinth.6:16) and, by grace and adoption, they shall be called gods (John 10:34-35).
That by the works and prayers of the People who are loyal to God through Fasting and prayer and humble approach, we to can become like God before the fall,which was destroyed at the Resurrection/death spiritual and bodily(NOT become God, but be LIKE GOD!)
The Lord's promise,
they who believe in Him "shall never die... but are passed from death into life" (John 11:26, 5:24).

All I can say is that people can go on believing what it is that they think is the 'Mark of the Beast', but Scripture tells us a different story.
In Ancient Early Christian writing that of the Fathers of being one with the Spirit,have but said the same thing concerning the MARK, and it has not changed up until today.....Man's ways change, but God's way is Unchanged, as it was, it is now.

IX
helen

EDIT.....*Lords Prayer..

[edit on 2/9/2008 by helen670]

reply to post by heliosprime


Now, you may be getting somewhere with the MARK being some type of an annointing thing that would be placed in PLACE of Babtism.
A Babtism is done with Christmation at A young age...
It is as it was done in the early church......
BUT, you cannot look at a person and see that he/she is babtised,can you?
A 'MARK' is that which will be either visible or invisible(depends where it will be)right Hand or Forehead, of which we are told by the Apostele St.John of the Apocalypse....Of which we are not able to Buy or Sell, unless we have the MARK.
The 'annointing' was also present in the Old Testament.

IX
helen

reply to post by helen670


yes, because I'm quite certain of this, that when our number is up, we are not going to be able to take the cross, the rosary, the statues, the fish symbol, the blessed and most holly bible, the holy water, the hymnals or the hymns, the sacred alter, the candles or the sticks, the gold or silver crosses...and on and on....how in the hell are we to take this with us when we die?

that's why I use the New International Version of the Holly Bible as a door stop (it keeps the door from banging up against the wall and scraping the paint). It is better serving humanity this way than any other way I can possibly imagine.

reply to post by skyshow


After this life, we won't need written text, because Jesus IS The Living Word.

John 1:1;
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14;
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Revelation 19:13;
And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

We also won't need the sun and moon anymore either!

Revelation 21:23;
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.






[edit on 9-2-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by skyshow

Others who have linked the pagan gods to celestial bodies would disagree with that.

Maybe, it's a little of BOTH.
The calf was around BEFORE Egypt.
here
Marduk [mär'dook] (Sumerian spelling in Akkadian AMAR.UTU "solar calf"; Biblical Merodach)

Where does the Golden Calf come from?

It comes from the Tower of Babel, to Egypt, to Mithraism, and we see it in Revelation when it emerges With a woman riding it.

I understand where you are coming from, really I do. I used to be Christian in the main stream widely accepted sense...even then I struggled with the idea of the cross not being an idol and yet it behaved that way in every sense of the word! Even if we were to go with the retort whereby the calf represents and earthly animal, by that same logic, the cross represents an earthly execution devise in capital punishment. It's history as a religious symbol / idol, however, goes further back, and appears to be clearly representative of the earth on it's axis and it's orbital patterns...whereby the cross represents the solstice and equinoxes...but that's another story.

If it bothers you, don't wear one, otherwise......
It was an ancient symbol used to represent many pagan gods, but, since we don't WORSHIP the cross, it's only symbolic and NOT idolatrous.
You'd be hard pressed to walk down the street and avoid idolatrous religious symbols.
Humans are too superstitious!
here, but, scroll down, please

"no, it represents the human sacrifice of a convicted heretic and his means to how he was executed" (or any other way one chooses to dress it up) then we have to agree it's "earthly" just like the calf and as such is an idol,

The Israelites WORSHIPPED the Golden Calf complete with Naked Orgies!
Not the same.
ALSO,
Jesus was NO convicted criminal. Pilate washed his hands from the verdict, the Jewish leaders hired liars to give false evidence,

Deut 19:15: "One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Deut 17:6: "On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness."

Mark 14:56: "Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree."

AND broke MANY Jewish laws to have him executed,

"* Trials could occur only in the regular meeting places of the Sanhedrin (not in the palace of the High Priest)
* Trials could not occur on the eve of the Sabbath or Feast Days or at night
* A sentence of 'guilty' might only be pronounced on the day following the trial


ALSO
1. Any arrest could not be made at night.
2. The time and date of the trial were illegal because it took place at night and on the eve of the Sabbath. This time precluded any chance for the required adjournment to the next day in the event of a conviction.
3. The Sanhedrin was without authority to instigate charges. It was only supposed to investigate charges brought before it. In Jesus' trial, the court itself formulated the charges.
4. The charges against Jesus were changed during the trial. He was initially charged with blasphemy based upon His statement that He would be able to destroy and rebuild the Temple of God within three days, as well as His claim to be the Son of God. When He was brought before Pilate, the charge was that Jesus was a King and did not advocate paying taxes to the Romans.
5. As stated above, the requirement of two witnesses in agreement to merit the death penalty was not met.
6. The court did not meet in the regular meeting place of the Sanhedrin, as required by Jewish law.
7. Christ was not permitted a defense. Under Jewish law, an exhaustive search into the facts presented by the witnesses should have occurred.
8. The Sanhedrin pronounced the death sentence. Under law, the Sanhedrin were not allowed to convict and put the death sentence into effect. (John 18:31)" David Terasaka













[edit on 9-2-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by helen670


babtisim? true babtisim is full dunking..........not a sprinkle on the forehead.

As for the mark, it is the gov that knows if you are marked, not each other. Today, a christian could not buy or sell in the northern territories of pakistan. He is not muslim. More over he may be killed on sight.

It could be a simple as a "prefix" attached to you social security number based on your religious preference.............my dogtag still says "other" in the religion line...........

The antichrist will instantly recognize if you have the mark, and his men/equipment will also. At that moment those who have been called to testify against the evil one may be ask "convert or die"...........

When there is a horrific war, the one where antichrist brings peace, he will demand to know his enemies.............

At colinbine the question was "are you a christian" then bang you were dead.....

reply to post by heliosprime


A babtism is to be fully Immersed into the water head and all, three times!
What does a babtism signify?
To fully die in Christ(as to why God took flesh and became Man) and be re born(In Christ) as before the falling away from God(spiritual death)
And the thrre times immersed into the babtisimal font(which is shaped like a womb)means that Christ was in the Tomb for the three days!
When we are babtised, we die with Christ in our corrupt nature, and are born again 'in corrupt as it was before the fall.

IX
helen