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Something I just can't wrap my mind around...

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posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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I really don't understand why there are some Christians who believe that alcohol is sinful. One of the miracles of their deity is turning water into wine...


could someone explain?




posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 08:05 AM
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what you will find is alot of people not understanding their own religions or just plain out ignoring it.

I mean Its fermentation its natural,

These people are just closed minded or trying to achieve a second hand agenda thru a 1st hand belief, Whatever it may be, nothing to get boggled over, its just ignorance.

[edit on 26-1-2008 by Tranceopticalinclined]



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 08:06 AM
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It's a hebrew translation error.

The bible actually states JC turned water in to Ribena and told everyone it was wine (white lie - no harm no foul).

Alcohol is sinful, but hey even ugly people need some action... 01:45 hours, bear goggles attached and fastened.

Gunna bag me a gremlin.

MonKey



Sorry - the chances are it's nothing to do with the bible and more to do with the sect of any particular religion. Monks made beer and wine for centuries in Italy. I've seen plenty of Muslims gambling and getting phissed. Don't they even drink wine in Catholic churches to symbolize the blood of christ.

Tis weird ya!



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
could someone explain?


Alcohol isn't the problem, drunkenness is. In the same sense food is not the problem gluttony is.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 10:26 AM
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To add a tick more to that. The whole alcohol being a sin thing is a teaching and commandment of MEN, not GOD. Which is something we are told to steer clear of in the new testament.

It seems like it's a religious attempt to clean the outside of the vessel rather than the inside. If the spirit of GOD rules a man he will neither be a drunkard or a glutton. Case closed. However if men rule men, they'll have them following every little law you can imagine.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by WiseSheep
 


thanks for the insight

 


is there anyone on here that actually believes that alcohol is sinful?



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 07:28 PM
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You know what? I was literally just going to post about wine today and such...... you beat me to it..

Getting drunk is not I don't believe a mortal sin.. its not in the commands, but it is extremely bad for you and God wants you to be in your state of awareness..

He also wants to be your happiness, not drowning out problems through drunkenness.

Wine in moderation is good. St gemma, yes that innocent dove drank some wine for her health problems, it helps blood pressure and the heart..


Titus 2:6

" Young men in like manner, exhort that they be sober "

So you see hes not saying it as if its a mortal sin, but its what God would rather us be...

in our right state of mind.


peace.

[edit on C:/120139747414America/ChicagoSat, 26 Jan 2008 19:31:14 -060014/Jan by JesusisTruth]



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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Btw I was for a while drinking alittle wine every night, but I never did go to the point of drunkeness



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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I love a few ice cold bottles of bud with my hot wings. Love a nice glass of wine too.

You know, I made a post yesterday, about how I feel a lot of people now days use drugs & alcohol to supress many things going on around them. And I stand by that statement today. I wasn't talking about a casual drinker, or a person who has to take loads of medicines for their various ailments.

I was referring to the person who wakes up and has to start drinking at 8:00a.m., so they can get their hands to stop shaking. Or the person, who gets paid twenty two hundred dollars, for two weeks of work and opts to spend seventeen hundred of it, in one night, on crack coc aine, to shoot up in what's left of their veins.

Big difference.

[edit on 26-1-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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Moderation is key, balance is peace. It's not what goes into a man which makes him evil, but what comes out so says the word.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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This is one of those examples of people who just like to tell others what to do. Biblically there is nothing wrong with the consumption of alcohol, but quite a deal said about what would amount to abuse. Personally I question any religous leader who doesn't know how to have a good time.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 11:08 PM
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I am a fan of alcohol...

Beer, chianti, pinot grigio, Jameson... yummy yummy.

Moderation is the key to everything in life.

I don't think alcohol is sinful. But I do think that above everything, we are supposed to be good to other people. If you drink so much and so often that you beat your kids, or spend all of your family's money on booze, then that is sinful.

But then, it doesn't matter to me what other people think is "sinful." I care about being a good person, and having a drink doesn't change that.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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I think we can all agree, that poor decisions and behavior are accredited to over consumption of alcohol. It is an assault upon the brain, and for each ounce of alcohol, the body requires 8 ounces of water to get rid of it.

But Ill take you one further. This topic has been a point of research for me and Ill share with you a perspective regarding both meat eating and alcohol.

John the Baptist was supposed to refrain from Alcohol. One reference in the Bible at least.


Preface to the Gospel of the Holy Twelve

In the original Sanscrit and Aramaic gospel, the duty of abstaining from meat and wine were emphasized, while in the later versions, it was omitted. Since those who founded the Christian Church, like their emperor, Constantine, were meat eaters and drinkers of wine, naturally they were opposed to these doctrines, whose acceptance would involve a revolutionary transformation of their living habits, they interpreted the first promise to mean, "Thou shalt not kill". implying that the commandment applied only to humans and that the slaughter of animals was not killing. The Original Gospel, representing the teachings of Christ, the Lord of Love, taught harmlessness and compassion to all living beings, including both animals and humans. For reasons above stated, the Roman Churchmen at Nicea opposed these doctrines and eliminated them from the Gospels, which they radically changed so as to be acceptable to Constantine, who loved the red meats and flowing wine of his midnight feasts too much to accept a religion that prohibited these pleasures, which was a main reason why he so bitterly persecuted the early Christians who advocated these doctrines. For this reason the Church Fathers changed the Gospel in such a way that Love and Compassion were limited only to human beings but the animal expressions of life were excluded from receiving these benefits. But the savior of the Original Gospel, as Christ were represented to be, was a redeemer of the animal world, as he was of men, seeking to alleviate the sufferings of all living beings.


Something to think about...

Peace


[edit on 1-2-2008 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by ChiKeyMonKey
It's a hebrew translation error.

The bible actually states JC turned water in to Ribena and told everyone it was wine (white lie - no harm no foul).


ChiKey MonKey now come on...Why would Jesus lie? Thats a sin no matter how small it is.

This morning I didn't answer because I didn't have a answer. But did you know during Sunday School Cliff explained this water to wine. I was amazed then I thought of your question. What were the odds of that happening? Think about it.

But to answer your question Maddness- In the Bible there are two types of wine.

This water was turned to wine however it was NOT fermented. It was juice say 100 times better then today's Welches grape juice.

This will help you, grab your Bible: read Psalms 104:1-35 but the key verse is 15. This is the good wine. This wine Jesus created was a healthy drink- not the one that will hurt you.

Read Proverbs 23:29-32
This is the bad wine and the effects it has on people.

Drinking alcoholic drinks can cause sin if you drink too much- then that person looses control.

[edit on 2/3/2008 by Leyla]



posted on Feb, 3 2008 @ 08:04 PM
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It would be refreshing to hear something other than the it was just grape juice defense. Get over it we know they had, made, and drank wine. Really think about it for just a second about what would happen if you were at a wedding and the spirits ran out, people would leave. Why do you think Mary even brought it up, sorry friend they werent staying for some really great non-alcoholic grape juice. The refrences you provide aren't describing two different beverages they are describing the double edged nature of one, again the condemnation is not on the use of various spiritous beverages but on the misuse of them. Alcohol doesn't cause you to sin, you choose to do that all on your own and if you are not strong enough to stand on your convictions and drink them then I would have to question those convictions to begin with.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by Jovi1
It would be refreshing to hear something other than the it was just grape juice defense. Get over it we know they had, made, and drank wine. Really think about it for just a second about what would happen if you were at a wedding and the spirits ran out, people would leave. Why do you think Mary even brought it up, sorry friend they werent staying for some really great non-alcoholic grape juice. The refrences you provide aren't describing two different beverages they are describing the double edged nature of one, again the condemnation is not on the use of various spiritous beverages but on the misuse of them. Alcohol doesn't cause you to sin, you choose to do that all on your own and if you are not strong enough to stand on your convictions and drink them then I would have to question those convictions to begin with.


Really? Wow I didn't know you were there and witnessed that miracle!! Jovi1 I'm so sorry I will never doubt you again.

Oh btw- Since you didn't even bother to read those verses I mentioned- it would be refreshing if you did.

If you did read them then you wouldn't be giving this poor attempt to discredit me.

Why would Jesus make something that harms people?

Psalms 104:1-35 but the key verse is 15.

Read Proverbs 23:29-32



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by Leyla
 


As a matter of fact I did read them, before i even posted anything no less. I wasn't trying to discredit you, not at all. As to why would Jesus making something that harms people, the truth is the consuption of beer and wine actually have shown to be beneficial to ones health when taken in moderation. Again it is the misuse and abuse of said items that create problems.
You might also be interested to know that the consumption of beer and wine had always been believed to promote good health in times long past because they made a safe alternative to oftentimes contaminated water sorces. So the question you should perhaps be asking yourself is, If it is so harmful and bad why would God allow it to have any good benefits?

And yes real wine does gladden the heart. And I didn't have to be there to know what would happen if someone showed up with some kind of grape juice instead of actual wine, all you need to do is look in the writings of history to know that people veiwed alcohol pretty much the same way they do now. I can almost see it now, hey Adam try this stuff it isn't fermented but it sure is better than the fermented stuff we were drinking an hour ago. It really just doesn't make sense.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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I always thought God must have been drunk when he created us.



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I've never heard any Christian say alcohol is sinful.

They must've been Mormons or something.

As far as I know, Christians love alcohol. :w:
Or as Michael Jackson so aptly calls it, "Jesus Juice."




[edit on 4-2-2008 by thehumbleone]



posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by Roland Deschain
 


LMFAO! That deserves a star!




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