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Could Bob Lazar be who he says he is?

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posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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I would like to know why did this thread turn into a i hate John Lear thread? Plus all through the thread people have said he was caught out here and there nobody knew him ETC,

What about Los Alamos? they denied he worked there but evidence exists to prove he did and it was covered up, why are these facts never brought up or talked about? why are they ignored? is it because it does not fit with your points of views?

I think that can be classed as ignorance if i have ever seen it, i dont know if Lazar is the real deal and nobody gives a crap about my opinion on that, pretty much the same way i dont care about the opinions of others who disreguard evidence such as the Los Alamos discrepency,

What i do know is these people are more intelligent than i ever hope to be, that is why i am a geologist and not a rocket scientist,

I do know that this worlds proBlems will never be solved if facts are ignored or people who can change it are dismissed so easily.

I also know if he came up with a car that fly's using anti gravity and it was available to all of you, i doubt we would see you driving a regular car for long?....IMHO.




posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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azzlin i am providing evidence to support bob

the youtube video proves he worked at los alamos

buddah says he didn't and quotes bobs webpage

he also thinks he's a scientist and never links any case studys, or any scientific literature at all and tried to debunk lear and then goes after bob while he is here


i provided links to show that bob is indeed a scientist, he worked at los alamos, he was paid by the navy and he had an ID badge once for the navy

he is also coming out with a hydrogen fuel conversion system so we don't need gas for our cars anymore and i posted a link to that (C2C AM mentioned bob had something big)

do you want coordinates for the weird looking things around papoose and area 51 too? just type in groom lake and have a look around google maps




[edit on 25-1-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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Bob Lazar was the most compelling thing after the TDP that made me really take the subject seriously. But then you see how quack Dr. Greer turned out to be, and all the problems with Lazar's story...

There are several things that make you still wonder about Lazar though:

1) He never changed his story, nor did it get more and more fantastic over time.

2) He doesn't look, act, or sound like he is lying in any of his interviews. He just seems so damned believable.

3) The amount of details he gives in his interviews and on his website are overwhelming. I couldn't just make all that stuff up and remember to say the same crap every time I was asked. Why over-complicate it if you are trying not to get caught lying? And if he is lying, he is still one smart SOB!

4) He does have SOME paperwork backing up that he was someone (phone book and W2).

5) How did he know when and where to go see the light shows at Area 51? Can't deny those, there is plenty of witnesses and video of it.

6) They used to debunk him by saying there is no way Element 115 could exist, now they found that he was right about that.

7) He never made any money that I am aware of. His story whether fiction or non is VERY interesting. He could have made money on books and movies all day long. So what did he gain from all of this?

8) Pathological liars that are of the mentality to lie to get attention don't get sick of doing it and just quit. They usually can't stop and will do anything to keep it going. He has vanished for years now and has no interest of talking about it anymore.





[edit on 25-1-2008 by Grey Basket]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Grey Basket
Bob Lazar was the most compelling thing after the TDP that made me really take the subject seriously. But then you see how quack Dr. Greer turned out to be, and all the problems with Lazar's story...

There are several things that make you still wonder about Lazar though:

1) He never changed his story, nor did it get more and more fantastic over time.

2) He doesn't look, act, or sound like he is lying in any of his interviews. He just seems so damned believable.

3) The amount of details he gives in his interviews and on his website are overwhelming. I couldn't just make all that stuff up and remember to say the same crap every time I was asked. Why over-complicate it if you are trying not to get caught lying? And if he is lying, he is still one smart SOB!

4) He does have SOME paperwork backing up that he was someone (phone book and W2).

5) How did he know when and where to go see the light shows at Area 51? Can't deny those, there is plenty of witnesses and video of it.

6) They used to debunk him by saying there is no way Element 115 could exist, now they found that he was right about that.

7) He never made any money that I am aware of. His story whether fiction or non is VERY interesting. He could have made money on books and movies all day long. So what did he gain from all of this?

8) Pathological liars that are of the mentality to lie to get attention don't get sick of doing it and just quit. They usually can't stop and will do anything to keep it going. He has vanished for years now and has no interest of talking about it anymore.





[edit on 25-1-2008 by Grey Basket]


and he did a lot of this FIRST before anyone was making any money and before area 51 "existed"

and he wasn't some old fart he was like 30 something a young guy seeing this stuff and running his mouth like a real person would if they saw advanced technologies of any kind



[edit on 25-1-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by aleon1018


So when Bob Lazar is reported to have been an idiot savant at certain times, then he might not always be Bob Lazar either. Does Bob Lazar have any scoop marks on him?



Please PM me anything you may know about scoop marks.

Bob lazar shows up here in a new post about once every month or so. His story is interesting, to be sure. Many of us have seen all of the evidence available before, and I even researched a certain Lazar debunker claim once and found out it was incorrect. Like I said in a Lazar post a few months ago, I don't think the world has heard the last of Bob Lazar.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by azzllin
I would like to know why did this thread turn into a i hate John Lear thread?


Bob Lazar has moved on. Lear hasn't. Lazar has said his piece and no more. Lear recounts it, and as Lazar said of Lear, Lear adds his own 15% on top of whatever is told to him, each time he repeats it, until it has become a Lear "tulpa" rather than anything resembling the truth. The Lazar we are debating and the real Lazar are not the same guy in truth.

Lazar speaks

Lazar - True or False?


I don't mean this as an insult to Mr. Lazar. He's an incredibly creative and intelligent guy. I also don't mean to denigrate Lazar's many supporters. One thing I learned while studying Area 51 is that you don't mess with people's religion. Lazar, I believe, has a right to make his claims, and people have a right to believe him. Lazar's flying saucers have become part of Nevada's identity, and probably even my own. I mean "False" only in a rather mundane factual sense.

Lazar did not work with flying saucers in an underground hangar near Papoose Lake. He made the story up. Furthermore, he made it up by himself, without the help of any nefarious agency and probably without any deep motivation other than the pleasure of attracting attention and putting people on.

The story evolved out of a long heritage of pre-existing underground alien base claims, which eventually infected the pilot and conspiracy theorist John Lear. Lear announced, in electronic bulletin board posts in the 1980s, that gray aliens were eating humans in deep underground facilities at Area 51. Lazar met Lear, heard his ramblings, and decided to give Lear what he wanted. Lazar took Lear's paranoid delusions and
repackaged them in a much more intelligent and internally consistent rendition. Initially, Lear was the only audience, but he tipped off a Las Vegas TV station, and the frenzy began. The story soon spun out of Lazar's control, and, at least until the recent Art Bell appearance, Lazar seemed to sincerely want it to go away.

Lazar's limited knowledge of Area 51 came from secondhand sources, which are plentiful in Las Vegas. Lazar has never been to Area 51. His "S-4" is a relocated and reconfigured version of "Site 4", a real Top Secret radar testing facility west of Area 51. Lazar's saucers and their propulsion system seem plausible to anyone without a physics degree. They were constructed, in Lazar's ., with the same fastidious care that he has lavished on his real-life fireworks, jet cars and other mechanical projects. "Element 115" and its peculiar periodic neighbors were discussed in an article in Scientific American just before Lazar used it to fuel his craft. Lazar has always displayed an exceptional respect for detail and consistency, and he has an extraordinary ability to focus his attention on whatever his current project is, to the exclusion of everything else. His only deficiencies are moral (that is, if you consider lies and the exploitation of others to be somehow 'wrong').

A good model for how Lazar operates is found in the forger Mark Hoffman, now in prison for murder.


Source: UFO Updates, Glenn Campbell

Now for a more supportive view:


Jim Tagliani , a former engineer of the Stealth Project , remembered working with Lazar and was in no doubt he had attended Cal-Tech. Also, Knapp found 3 employees of Meson Laboratories who all recalled Lazar - no person works there without the highest of qualifications.


Source: The Why Files



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:14 PM
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people say also that bob was unaware that he was gonna be used in disinfo

well john lear had secret clearances, he had tested planes before, (i still think him and bob met at area 51 while john was breaking world speed records...again) why would they think lear wouldn't tell him to "shut up bob, it's your job to shut up" lear i think still keeps his mouth shut on a lot of stuff he's done himself, or seen, or known of

not all of it ufo, moon, mars or soul catcher related, lear grew up around his fathers secrecy(unless the entire lear stuff was public knowledge at the time), if lears not an agent and lazar is true about area 51 i think they would see lear as more of..."well johnny knows what it's like to be in this field...we will just keep lazar away from the non flying stuff"

lear has been a part of secret projects himself no?, he kept his mouth shut for a long time, and at that time 1988 what had john even said? area 51 was still not existing

i think they would see lears aviation background as ok for lazar to be his friend, and maybe the person who made that decision, wasn't around at all times to enforce what bob saw, or knew exactly what bob did see after he got the job, just what they say bob would be doing in his job description

unless there is someone in groom instead of EG&G making the hiring decisions?



[edit on 25-1-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]

[edit on 25-1-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]

"On 6th December 1988 Lazar mentioned what he haLEAR51.jpg (16367 bytes)d seen to ex - C.I.A. pilot John Lear who advised him "don't damage your security clearance, work up there for a while and see what really is going on"."

[edit on 25-1-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]

"and evidence of his birth in Los Angeles was missing."

makes you wonder about phil schneider...bob was before him and maybe old phil was too much too soon? (don't discuss though, just mentioned because it could relate to bob...)

[edit on 25-1-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]

Glenn Campbell says one poly test for bob, lear says he took 3 and 2 were he was telling the truth and 1 was in inconclusive



[edit on 25-1-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by DogHead
 


The Glenn Campbell statement raises an a issue about Bob's claims that I have thoroughly debunked. Nothing against Mr. Campbell, I think he just read it elsewhere. John Lear recently put up pictures of him and Lazar at his birthday party. Lazar had to travel from Albuquerque to Los Vegas for the event, so I think they have a friendly relationship.







[edit on 1/25/2008 by TheAvenger]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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Lazar and Lear have been investigated by both security and ufologists for many years.


Lazar has lied about his educational credentials and his position at Los Alamos. He claims that his records have vanished and that the government has turned him into a "non-person", but there are no specific records that can't be accounted for. Only his educational records are missing, which plainly never existed to begin with. All evidence indicates that Lazar worked at Los Alamos as a repair technician, not as a senior scientist as he claimed. There is also no evidence that Lazar has ever visited Area 51, which unlike the S-4 claim, can at least be checked out "off the record" through former Area 51 workers. Lazar says he travelled to "S-4" by way of Area 51 on daily 737 flights that hundreds of other workers take. Although he says that Area 51 was only a transfer point for him, he has been unable describe the arrivals area or what you see when you first get off the plane.

Source: Bob Lazar


The simplest theory to explain the Lazar story is that it is completely false and that he concocted it initally to fool John Lear, who had been telling extravagant aliens-at-Area-51 stories for a couple of years before Lazar arrived. Lazar could have simply fed back to Lear a more rational version of what Lear wanted to hear. Other more complex theories say that Lazar is recounting a real flying saucer experience that actually took place elsewhere or in different circumstances, or that he is a dupe or willing participant in some complicated U.S. Government or foreign government plan. (For example, it could have been attempt by the Soviets to probe or disrupt activities at Area 51. Is so, this would not have been the most convoluted deception of the Cold War.) Motivation for the fraud remains murky, as Lazar and his primary supporter Gene Huff have ignored or sabotaged many opportunities for financial gain from the story. (Although movie options and the saucer model kit have made the story profitable for him, Lazar seems disinterested in pursuing deals.) Thanks to Huff's aggressive attacks on anyone who questions the story, it is hard to find many Lazar supporters left in the UFO community, even among those who want desperately to believe.


Same source.


A lab technician who parroted second hand information fits his physics knowledge and his behaviour better than an insider who spilled the beans. The conflation by Lear has added nothing except more noise to drown out the signal.

The lack of profiting from this matter cited as proof of genuineness is not particularly convincing, there were deals, they went sour due as much as anything to a lack of people skills and an equal lack of business acumen.

And at the end of the day, the UFOs are still being seen, the Biefeld-Brown levitation effect is still being used to make stuff float and fly, there are still 100 times the number of human secret vehicles for every one potentially genuine encounter with a Visitor.

And the grays eating people? Zeta Reticuli?

Bunk. There's more and better evidence for vampires, werewolves and angels than for any gray alien wave of abductions carried out by genuine aliens.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:43 PM
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did any of you even go to his united nuclear website?

if you did you wouldn't question his knowledge of science

he's coming out with a hydrogen fuel system so you don't need gas ever again for petes sake lol

you don't think if someone was smart enough to do that they'd want to fatten up their pockets like lazar is probably going to now?

where did he get this technology from? he either stole it, or made it

and everyone here should stop linking articles written about bob 4 years ago, and 10 years ago lol just cause they are there...

transcripts from 10 years ago with bob would be wonderful though, but articles from people who you can't google really in 2008...like the good doc lol

seriously

check lazars website, he's about to solve gasoline problems

john lear said bob was recently at the pentagon too in the coast to coast billy meiers thread when i asked john what was up with bob cause coast to coast said bob had something big



[edit on 25-1-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by OSSkyWatcher
did any of you even go to his united nuclear website?

if you did you wouldn't question his knowledge of science

he's coming out with a hydrogen fuel system so you don't need gas ever again for petes sake lol

you don't think if someone was smart enough to do that they'd want to fatten up their pockets like lazar is probably going to now?

where did he get this technology from? he either stole it, or made it


Many of us have visited his website. For sure.
His science gets shakier the more he speaks, and that is the considered view of all the physicists I can interview from well-known ones down to "lowly" Ph.D.s toiling away on boring old real-world science.

Hydrogen fuel systems have been around for a while, and whilst he certainly has some technical skills it isn't quite the same as making A-Grav or even maglev landspeeders or something is it? I am no scientist and even with MY technical training I could do a petrol to hydrogen conversion on one of our cars. No disrespect intended to Lazar on that score though- there are way too many technologically illiterate people around. Lear's popularity is proof of that.

As for his profiteering or lack thereof:


Lazar is in his late-30s (He says he was born 1959.) and lives in Las Vegas. He says he makes his living through several small businesses including a photo studio and a company that repairs radiation monitors. Lazar has also earned income from movie options (for movies of his story that were never made), his video tape and a Testors plastic flying saucer model based on his account. (It is one of the best selling plastic models of all time and it could be worth a lot to Lazar if he received a per-item royalty.) Lazar has routinely turned down paid speaking engagements but has been paid for television interviews.

Source: Lazar - personal facts section, bottom of page

If he is making a royalty from the most popular plastic kit of all time then he wouldn't really need to make nickel and dime money from grubbing for interview fees would he? And his mystique is the most valuable thing about the sort of long con he is running. Every answered question is another nail in the coffin if he is a fraud.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by OSSkyWatcher
 


Sure, I've been to the United Nuclear website, and even ordered supplies from them a few times. I guarantee you that United Nuclear is 100% legitimate.



[edit on 1/25/2008 by TheAvenger]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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and as far as lear and bob go, bob surprised him on his bday so...they are "bros"

but i am out, i can't post any more about bob

it's all there for you, you can link any articles you want but bob worked at los alamos, got paid by the navy, and either had or faked a badge

and he's about to put a huge dent in the gas corporations pockets when he releases his hydrogen fuel conversion system that makes cars never need Gasoline again...

for petes sake...never need gas again, and you, yes you right now think to yourself "am i really going to guestion bob lazar's scientific knowledge when he starts to sell this hydrogen fuel system, that means you don't ever need gasoline again, gasoline again, never again, no more gasoline, ever, again"

i will watch his site every day until the day it's up for sale

then post here


have a good night



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by OSSkyWatcher
 


Good night. BMW have brought out a H-cell car already BTW. So Lazar has missed that boat comprehensively too. His speciality is genuinely making and selling curate's eggs.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by OSSkyWatcher
i provided links to show that bob is indeed a scientist, he worked at los alamos, he was paid by the navy and he had an ID badge once for the navy


So he worked at Los Alamos scrubbing floors and got a paycheck from the Navy for doing the same. You gotta admit that ain't quite the same thing as proof that he was reverse-engineering alien fusion drives. As for "inventing" a hydrogen generation technique, you can download a half-dozen from the Internet yourself.

It all adds up to a big ol' pile of nothing. Bless you for wanting it all to be true, but you're barking up the wrong tree here.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 10:44 PM
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How the hell does John Lear do this type of posting without getting booted? If I started a thread or made posts like any of his, I'd be kicked out within a couple days. He provides us with all this "knowledge" by stating it smugly as fact and supports none of it. If God himself told me some of this stuff I'd say, "Really? Well how?" God would probably give me a more straightforward answer. And John says, "Well what would you like me to clarify?" HOW ABOUT ALL OF IT!? Any even plausible evidence would be great.

Now on to Bob Lazar. I tend to think he's the real deal. The guy obviously has a higher form of intelligence within himself than what is afforded most of us. I think his intelligence is probably the reason he's not part of the shadow gov't anymore. He knew that he was dealing with something that could vastly improve the human race and wanted us to know. And I've seen him get emotional about some of it. He's a hell of an actor and scholar to be a liar. But I guess those are the best liars. Maybe I fell for it.

You have to love watching the guy speak. He does it without seeming up his own *** about it, perhaps some people on these boards could learn something from that.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by SantaClaus
How the hell does John Lear do this type of posting without getting booted?


How indeed. And a whole forum of his own in which to do it! Nice work if you can get it, eh?

Lazar- live by the evidence, die by the evidence. He has none of the unsavoury associates that Lear does- like the CIA killers, fixers and smugglers- except by association with the aforesaid. Although as a one-time whoremaster Lazar has to suffer some damage to his character and credibility especially in terms of past and present claims of his clearance level. Each shift from the everyday normalcy of a "typical" high clearance (total information on your background required) deal to some sort of MIB movie style invisible man should be making our suspension of disbelief come closer and closer to settling back on the ground like so much levitated UFO.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by Question
 


I certainly believe it is possible that Bob Lazar is genuine but don't have anyway to prove it.
The question perhaps should be:
Does a story like Bob Lazar's sound plausible, given all the research conducted into UFOs, advanced military technology and suppressed alternative energy solutions?

Whether we back-engineered technology from ET's or developed it ourselves (eg Tesla, Nazi's) could also be up for debate but as far as I'm concerned, the technology is real and we have been lied to for a very long time.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by cams
reply to post by Question
 


I certainly believe it is possible that Bob Lazar is genuine but don't have anyway to prove it.
The question perhaps should be:
Does a story like Bob Lazar's sound plausible, given all the research conducted into UFOs, advanced military technology and suppressed alternative energy solutions?

Whether we back-engineered technology from ET's or developed it ourselves (eg Tesla, Nazi's) could also be up for debate but as far as I'm concerned, the technology is real and we have been lied to for a very long time.




Good point cam! That's the bottom line isn't it? This is what it's all about. Why nit-pik on the messenger when we already know that it's THE MESSAGE that's important.

The same goes for those extremely PERSISTENT and strident Greer bashers in this forum. So what if he charges a fee to join his org. Or if he charges a fee for anyone who wants to attend any of his speaking engagements... don't they all?? Or charges a fee for anything for that matter!

Lazar and Greer's main focus is zooming in on alternative forms of energy which is something WE ALL should be focusing on too considering how our world is running out of oil and how much damage fossil fuels are doing to our environment. If some here could just focus instead on THE MESSAGE, instead of acting like schoolgirls yapping about what they like or don't like about the messengers, only then will they see and understand what the message is really all about. But I don't think they're interested in focusing on that. For this reason, I think they are paid provocateurs working for conglomerates who have no interest whatsoever in alternative forms of energy or in our planet's survival.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by Palasheea
 


Lazar and Greer and whomever else are the recipients of attention because of the claims they make. Their claims require substantiation for non-credulous people to believe them.

As one person said about all this years ago, there's no point arguing religion with someone. The believers will believe and forgive all the inconsistencies or even better explain them away and incorporate them into what is no more than a fairy tale.

Alternative energy is just the latest facet to be explored by facile con men. They jump on whatever band wagon they can.

What is FACT is that these people are one step away from documented CIA disinformation agents and contract killers. Does that FACT matter at all? Or is it too much of a disruption to the fantasy world?

But as that older wiser . said, never argue religion with a fanatic.




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