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Originally posted by Grey Basket
Bob Lazar was the most compelling thing after the TDP that made me really take the subject seriously. But then you see how quack Dr. Greer turned out to be, and all the problems with Lazar's story...
There are several things that make you still wonder about Lazar though:
1) He never changed his story, nor did it get more and more fantastic over time.
2) He doesn't look, act, or sound like he is lying in any of his interviews. He just seems so damned believable.
3) The amount of details he gives in his interviews and on his website are overwhelming. I couldn't just make all that stuff up and remember to say the same crap every time I was asked. Why over-complicate it if you are trying not to get caught lying? And if he is lying, he is still one smart SOB!
4) He does have SOME paperwork backing up that he was someone (phone book and W2).
5) How did he know when and where to go see the light shows at Area 51? Can't deny those, there is plenty of witnesses and video of it.
6) They used to debunk him by saying there is no way Element 115 could exist, now they found that he was right about that.
7) He never made any money that I am aware of. His story whether fiction or non is VERY interesting. He could have made money on books and movies all day long. So what did he gain from all of this?
8) Pathological liars that are of the mentality to lie to get attention don't get sick of doing it and just quit. They usually can't stop and will do anything to keep it going. He has vanished for years now and has no interest of talking about it anymore.
[edit on 25-1-2008 by Grey Basket]
Originally posted by aleon1018
So when Bob Lazar is reported to have been an idiot savant at certain times, then he might not always be Bob Lazar either. Does Bob Lazar have any scoop marks on him?
Originally posted by azzllin
I would like to know why did this thread turn into a i hate John Lear thread?
I don't mean this as an insult to Mr. Lazar. He's an incredibly creative and intelligent guy. I also don't mean to denigrate Lazar's many supporters. One thing I learned while studying Area 51 is that you don't mess with people's religion. Lazar, I believe, has a right to make his claims, and people have a right to believe him. Lazar's flying saucers have become part of Nevada's identity, and probably even my own. I mean "False" only in a rather mundane factual sense.
Lazar did not work with flying saucers in an underground hangar near Papoose Lake. He made the story up. Furthermore, he made it up by himself, without the help of any nefarious agency and probably without any deep motivation other than the pleasure of attracting attention and putting people on.
The story evolved out of a long heritage of pre-existing underground alien base claims, which eventually infected the pilot and conspiracy theorist John Lear. Lear announced, in electronic bulletin board posts in the 1980s, that gray aliens were eating humans in deep underground facilities at Area 51. Lazar met Lear, heard his ramblings, and decided to give Lear what he wanted. Lazar took Lear's paranoid delusions and
repackaged them in a much more intelligent and internally consistent rendition. Initially, Lear was the only audience, but he tipped off a Las Vegas TV station, and the frenzy began. The story soon spun out of Lazar's control, and, at least until the recent Art Bell appearance, Lazar seemed to sincerely want it to go away.
Lazar's limited knowledge of Area 51 came from secondhand sources, which are plentiful in Las Vegas. Lazar has never been to Area 51. His "S-4" is a relocated and reconfigured version of "Site 4", a real Top Secret radar testing facility west of Area 51. Lazar's saucers and their propulsion system seem plausible to anyone without a physics degree. They were constructed, in Lazar's head, with the same fastidious care that he has lavished on his real-life fireworks, jet cars and other mechanical projects. "Element 115" and its peculiar periodic neighbors were discussed in an article in Scientific American just before Lazar used it to fuel his craft. Lazar has always displayed an exceptional respect for detail and consistency, and he has an extraordinary ability to focus his attention on whatever his current project is, to the exclusion of everything else. His only deficiencies are moral (that is, if you consider lies and the exploitation of others to be somehow 'wrong').
A good model for how Lazar operates is found in the forger Mark Hoffman, now in prison for murder.
Jim Tagliani , a former engineer of the Stealth Project , remembered working with Lazar and was in no doubt he had attended Cal-Tech. Also, Knapp found 3 employees of Meson Laboratories who all recalled Lazar - no person works there without the highest of qualifications.
Lazar has lied about his educational credentials and his position at Los Alamos. He claims that his records have vanished and that the government has turned him into a "non-person", but there are no specific records that can't be accounted for. Only his educational records are missing, which plainly never existed to begin with. All evidence indicates that Lazar worked at Los Alamos as a repair technician, not as a senior scientist as he claimed. There is also no evidence that Lazar has ever visited Area 51, which unlike the S-4 claim, can at least be checked out "off the record" through former Area 51 workers. Lazar says he travelled to "S-4" by way of Area 51 on daily 737 flights that hundreds of other workers take. Although he says that Area 51 was only a transfer point for him, he has been unable describe the arrivals area or what you see when you first get off the plane.
The simplest theory to explain the Lazar story is that it is completely false and that he concocted it initally to fool John Lear, who had been telling extravagant aliens-at-Area-51 stories for a couple of years before Lazar arrived. Lazar could have simply fed back to Lear a more rational version of what Lear wanted to hear. Other more complex theories say that Lazar is recounting a real flying saucer experience that actually took place elsewhere or in different circumstances, or that he is a dupe or willing participant in some complicated U.S. Government or foreign government plan. (For example, it could have been attempt by the Soviets to probe or disrupt activities at Area 51. Is so, this would not have been the most convoluted deception of the Cold War.) Motivation for the fraud remains murky, as Lazar and his primary supporter Gene Huff have ignored or sabotaged many opportunities for financial gain from the story. (Although movie options and the saucer model kit have made the story profitable for him, Lazar seems disinterested in pursuing deals.) Thanks to Huff's aggressive attacks on anyone who questions the story, it is hard to find many Lazar supporters left in the UFO community, even among those who want desperately to believe.
Originally posted by OSSkyWatcher
did any of you even go to his united nuclear website?
if you did you wouldn't question his knowledge of science
he's coming out with a hydrogen fuel system so you don't need gas ever again for petes sake lol
you don't think if someone was smart enough to do that they'd want to fatten up their pockets like lazar is probably going to now?
where did he get this technology from? he either stole it, or made it
Lazar is in his late-30s (He says he was born 1959.) and lives in Las Vegas. He says he makes his living through several small businesses including a photo studio and a company that repairs radiation monitors. Lazar has also earned income from movie options (for movies of his story that were never made), his video tape and a Testors plastic flying saucer model based on his account. (It is one of the best selling plastic models of all time and it could be worth a lot to Lazar if he received a per-item royalty.) Lazar has routinely turned down paid speaking engagements but has been paid for television interviews.
Originally posted by OSSkyWatcher
i provided links to show that bob is indeed a scientist, he worked at los alamos, he was paid by the navy and he had an ID badge once for the navy
Originally posted by SantaClaus
How the hell does John Lear do this type of posting without getting booted?
Originally posted by cams
reply to post by Question
I certainly believe it is possible that Bob Lazar is genuine but don't have anyway to prove it.
The question perhaps should be:
Does a story like Bob Lazar's sound plausible, given all the research conducted into UFOs, advanced military technology and suppressed alternative energy solutions?
Whether we back-engineered technology from ET's or developed it ourselves (eg Tesla, Nazi's) could also be up for debate but as far as I'm concerned, the technology is real and we have been lied to for a very long time.