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Could Bob Lazar be who he says he is?

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posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


well mine is the new model 2008 s4 edition




posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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I haven't seen it mentioned here, but did anyone catch the Bob Lazar came out of the dark recently? He was on the "Mysterious Journeys, Alien Hotspots", sound familiar? It should, because it's the same show that Springer was on: www.abovetopsecret.com...

So why did he choose to come out recently like that, but not address any of the issues surrounding him? Very suspect.

And as for John Lear, it's simply not right that he can get away with saying things without proof (or even evidence) that anyone else would be banned for, perpetrating hoaxes. The reason is clear, it's because he is a big name in the UFO field and an ex-CIA pilot. I can kind of understand that, but for god's sake put something (a warning) right on his Avatar making it clear that he is "special", he can say things others can't and may be a dis-info agent.







[edit on 28-1-2008 by Grey Basket]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 06:25 PM
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Lazar and Lear fuel the desires of some people who read their stuff or watch it or whatever. It helps build a powerful escapist fantasy in the mind.



"What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way."

-- Bertrand Russell


I don't think in most cases it's more than that.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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Again, I am here for entertainment, not to save the world from it's evil self. If
I manage to think of and solve something others have missed, so be it. I have no reasonable expectation that this will occur, but who knows? We all have different backgrounds and training so maybe something will fall into place.

[edit on 1/28/2008 by TheAvenger]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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I'm still not sure what makes people so sure Lazar is a phony etc. when they don't even know the guy.

I'm more willing to accept character judgement by people who actually KNOW the character. We all know what 'celebrity' culture can do to a persons reputation. Complete distortions, spurred by jealousy, mis-interpretation, conjecture etc.

I see alot of these things in the character assassination of people like Alex Jones, etc. Doesn't surprise me to see the same baseless judgements passed on Lazar.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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The judgments aren't baseless in this sense- his scientific claims have been proven to be illogical or outright false in some cases. So to maintain a claim in the face of fact is questionable.

That's the kind of problem that presents itself. It isn't personal, about Lazar. For me anyway. It's just that waaaaaaayyyy too much stuff doesn't add up.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by NewWorldOver
I'm still not sure what makes people so sure Lazar is a phony etc. when they don't even know the guy.

I'm more willing to accept character judgement by people who actually KNOW the character. We all know what 'celebrity' culture can do to a persons reputation. Complete distortions, spurred by jealousy, mis-interpretation, conjecture etc.

I see alot of these things in the character assassination of people like Alex Jones, etc. Doesn't surprise me to see the same baseless judgements passed on Lazar.


I'm going to make my stance very clear. I do NOT think Lazar is a bad person. I do not have a personal grudge against him(I don't know him so that would be silly anyway), and I do not think he owes me or anyone else anything at all. Except an explanation as to why he has made the statements he did. Especially the proton/anti-proton conversion method he illustrates...It just doesn't work as physics are understood. Like I said in a previous post. I am VERY open to being wrong about Lazar, but I'm not stupid, and don't buy what people say based on pseudo-scientific conjecture. While Lazar was in school he should have published at LEAST 2 or 3 papers in the field of physics, this is prior to employ at any facility. I have found none. Not even one alluded to. Which is strange. Every scientist involved in the Manhattan Project was published prior to the beginning of the Project. Every single CTS level physicist we KNOW about has been published. Why not Lazar? These two things represent HUGE holes in his story that must be accounted for in one way or the other. And it is not fair to say that this is somehow baseless, when in fact, it is a legitimate point of contention. We one tries to seek out the semblance of truth it is not wise to believe the words of every man that makes a good SOUNDING case. It is only prudent that one must analyze the language used, the circumstances involved, and gaps in logic, and apparent knowledge. This is what helps. Skeptics, as in real skeptics, don't need the personal attack, and even though some of my language was inflammatory toward Bob, and especially Lear for his defense of Bob, I do not harbor personal feelings about this at all. But I am a little concerned by the intentions of two people that make outlandish claims and then stick everyone with "Those in the know" statements as if that sort of thing would exonerate them from being held to the fire from time to time.

ATS is here to call BS on alot of issues. Including the BS the US Government perpetrates in the interest of rich f***s who care little about you and I and what our future truly is. It is shameful that people here or anywhere are allowed to get away with saying something, while others are excluded or banned for the same trespasses. I'm not claiming to be an authority on anything but what I do. But I won't be taken for a ride either.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 07:48 PM
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If this particular dog and pony show didn't rely on science then it wouldn't matter, but because there is the veneer of science it leads people along into dangerous waters of belief.

Scientific theories have standards of proof, experiment needs to be able to be duplicated, observations need explanations that make sense, and so on and so on. There is a lack of this kind of detail in the Lazar story especially as enhanced and enhanced by Lear.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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Implying that a person is a liar IS a judgement of character


Stop pussyfooting around it, it's totally fine. If you think Lazar is a liar, that's just as respectable an opinion as anyone else's. I myself don't think modern science could possibly 'confirm' his theories on extraterrestrial for the obvious reason that it's not a scientifically accepted topic. This doesn't mean I 'believe' him, but I definitely reserve jugement for the experts and those that know the guy personally.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by NewWorldOver
Implying that a person is a liar IS a judgement of character


Stop pussyfooting around it, it's totally fine. If you think Lazar is a liar, that's just as respectable an opinion as anyone else's. I myself don't think modern science could possibly 'confirm' his theories on extraterrestrial for the obvious reason that it's not a scientifically accepted topic. This doesn't mean I 'believe' him, but I definitely reserve jugement for the experts and those that know the guy personally.



I can't call Lazar a liar, I can only say that he is inconsistent and some of what he says smells of BS. But I also said I am open to being wrong about him. I welcome it. So I will reserve the word "Liar" when it is established that he truly is. I have not established this and neither has anyone else here. What people have pointed out, is, or course, inconsistency, which is not the same thing as being a liar.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Grey Basket
And as for John Lear, it's simply not right that he can get away with saying things without proof (or even evidence) that anyone else would be banned for, perpetrating hoaxes.


Actually, this is a conspiracy theory forum. There are plenty of such posters. Nobody is going to be banned for saying things without providing immediate proof. As for evidence, John routinely cites his sources etc. Evidence is a subjective term and has to stand to the scrutiny of each individual... it will not always satisfy skeptics (I've yet to see skeptics accept any sort of evidence.)

It's perfectly fine to disagree with him or even believe he's a liar. But to say he's perpetrating hoaxes and should be banned is kind of a red flag ... calm down.

The same goes for Lazar in my opinion. The guy cannot call in UFO landings and hand you government schematics. He's an informant. His 'evidence' is subject to scrutiny just like everyone else. If you believe he's a liar, than you've made your decision. Simple as that.

I believe people are attacking celebrity status (again) and not substance. You can argue against specific statements all you want, but in the end, the big picture is that so and so is famous for saying _____, you don't believe ____ therefore so and so shouldn't be allowed to speak. That's silly. John Lear and Bob Lazar are both allowed to say whatever the hell they want, and given their background, open minded individuals like myself are allowed to judge for ourselves.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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Greeneyed -"Ive never been in HR, so I dont know exacts of how they do things. But if an HR person is doing a background check on someone, generally they have to get signed persmission from the person. At least in the companies I have worked for. A PI doesnt have to. They can do extensive background checks on a person and the person would never know."

I doubt that you ever checked on Lazar's educational background, since the Buckley Amendment would FORBID any acredited school from responding to you. I quote the pertinent section of the Buckley Amendment. Notice that there is NO exception for "PI"s:
(b) Release of education records; parental consent requirement; exceptions; compliance with judicial orders and subpoenas; audit and evaluation of Federally-supported education programs; recordkeeping.

(1) No funds shall be made available under any applicable program to any educational agency or institution which has a policy or practice of permitting the release of educational records (or personally identifiable information contained therein other than directory information, as defined in paragraph (5) of subsection (a)) of students without the written consent of their parents to any individual, agency, or organization, other than to the following--

(A) other school officials, including teachers within the educational institution or local educational agency, who have been determined by such agency or institution to have legitimate educational interests;

(B) officials of other schools or school systems in which the student seeks or intends to enroll, upon condition that the student's parents be notified of the transfer, receive a copy of the record if desired, and have an opportunity for a hearing to challenge the content of the record;

(C) authorized representatives of (i) the Comptroller General of the United States, (ii) the Secretary, (iii) an administrative head of an educational agency (as defined in section 408(c) , or (iv) State educational authorities, under the conditions set forth in paragraph (3) of this subsection;

(D) in connection with a student's application for, or receipt of, financial aid;

(E) State and local officials or authorities to whom such information is specifically required to be reported or disclosed pursuant to State statute adopted prior to November 19, 1974;

(F) organizations conducting studies for, or on behalf of, educational agencies or institutions for the purpose of developing, validating, or administering predictive tests, administering student aid programs, and improving instruction, if such studies are conducted in such a manner as will not permit the personal identification of students and their parents by persons other than representatives of such organizations and such information will be destroyed when no longer needed for the purpose for which it is conducted;

(G) accrediting organizations in order to carry out their accrediting functions;

(H) parents of a dependent student of such parents, as defined in section 152 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954; and

(I) subject to regulations of the Secretary, in connection with an emergency, appropriate persons if the knowledge of such information is necessary to protect the health or safety of the student or other persons.

Nothing in clause (E) of this paragraph shall prevent a State from further limiting the number or type of State or local officials who will continue to have access thereunder.

I spent a great deal of my working life as a professor, and I can tell you that no college or university would give out such information. In fact, if they did, they would be subject to prosecution and dismissal. Believe me, that is one law no one at my institution would ever risk breaking.

Personally, however, I do believe that Lazar is a few cards short of a full deck, or at best a government disinformation agent.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
While Lazar was in school he should have published at LEAST 2 or 3 papers in the field of physics, this is prior to employ at any facility. I have found none. Not even one alluded to. Which is strange.


The pro-Lazar argument here would be that since he only got Master's, and not a PhD as he seems to indicate, papers were not a part of the degree requirement (technically, they aren't even for the PhD with the exception of dissertation itself, except that if your research is worth that degree it's also worth a publication, and vice versa).

But, here's is the deal. In this field, nobody even hires Masters to do research, unless they are en route to their PhD. It's like you can't be a medical doctor if you only complete pre-med classes, plain and simple. To make matters even less plausible for Lazar, the late 80s and early 90s were the time when it was extremely hard for a physicist to get a job in the field, it was super competitive. To have such an opportunity, in addition to PhD one must have had an established track record to be considered for a research position. Lazar obviously has had none.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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In the defense of Lazar a bit, I currently only know the first and last name of one professor, and that is because I had them for two different semesters. I also could not tell you the first and last name of a single person I have college classes with.

Most people think it is really weird that I don't know the names of my professors, or even class numbers and all that stuff. But I am there to learn, I am not concerned with things like professor names.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by TheStarMan
Most people think it is really weird that I don't know the names of my professors, or even class numbers and all that stuff.


Frankly, I find it mighty weird, too... By the way, do you know what country you are in? It's not the most important piece of information, of course... There are plethora of other, even less significant facts such as names of your siblings and your mother's date of birth.


But I am there to learn, I am not concerned with things like professor names.


Right, to hell with decorum... "You, hey you, have you graded my homework?"

When you get married, don't bother remembering your spouse's name. After all, you are there to procreate, not to be concerned with things like you partner's name and all.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by DogHead
If this particular dog and pony show didn't rely on science then it wouldn't matter, but because there is the veneer of science it leads people along into dangerous waters of belief.

Scientific theories have standards of proof, experiment needs to be able to be duplicated, observations need explanations that make sense, and so on and so on. There is a lack of this kind of detail in the Lazar story especially as enhanced and enhanced by Lear.


I have to agree wholeheartedly..nice guys dont pay my rent..If I dont pay my rent..my friends cant say to landlord..its ok..sys is a swell and on the up an up..his word is good..the landlord wants his money..just like the public demands the truth and accountability.. and thats what standards are , none are perfect. but they serve a purpose..I wouldnt want a certified tech..doing surgery on my kid if there are doctors available..I dont care how good he is..If he messes up..I am guilty for helping if something goes wrong..and a lot is wrong when put to the light on him.. there isnt a university I know that has closed a door on him for his stuff..why? simple..because he hasnt knocked why? ask him.....He has not met any threshold except the talk part..drawing from old history of roswell..ready available..and the will to cater to an audience ready to here recycled material with a new twist...there is always a buyer..a market...As for science not looking into aspects..I disagree ..you have cosmologists and and astronomers..physicists delving into a myriad kinds of exotic things that would seeme sci fi..to us now..if one took the time to search..and then come back and listen to him again.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Some people don't socialize in college. I didn't. Like I said earlier, I don't remember anyone's full name either. Not remembering the names of people you have no intention of remaining connected to after college isn't quite the same as not knowing the obvious things you've mentioned. Maybe you need to just reword your post in a way that contributes to the discussion instead of dedicating it solely to making fun of another poster.

Just because somebody stayed off the radar in college doesn't mean they didn't go. The fact that there's no record of his attendance, and no tangible products of his education such as papers or even a diploma... now that's suspicious.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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Bob Lazar is intelligent and charming ..and substantially more self controlled than his partners when it comes to commentary and adding or changing his story..But I really have to go with Stant friedman..who has all the connections..and would be the first to embrace a story that would help his movement and others like greer..
so between two physicists in the same area..I have to go with Stan..Lazar is not legit.
www.v-j-enterprises.com...

[edit on 28-1-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 29-1-2008 by Sys_Config]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by senshido
Omg, tell us 1 thing he's brought forward on this specific thread?


What I find amusing is how many people say what you do then go out and start a John Lear something thread ...


All you have to do is a search on ATS and see how many posts there are about John...

Now if you all can't stand him... why do you keep coming back?

Ah I get it... you really can't get enough of him but don't want to admit it


A person is only as popular and as famous as his audience makes him... I heard it asked who are those who make John a Star here at ATS?

Look in a mirror... the answer is staring back at you... If it wasn't for all the attention you lavish on him in these threads.... well ATS would have a lot of empty rooms...



[edit on 29-1-2008 by zorgon]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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well we sometimes come back to to make sure newbies get both sides as many times the thread gets very long..and pertinent info gets burried and forgotten..many newbies might not investigate or google all over the place..so its good to rebring the facts back about this man Lear.Lmh..c2c and the whole "meme myth complex" If an allien were discovered..they would all be out of business..no longer a mystery..as long as its peekaboo with "state secrets" the cash cow can continue to be milked..coming back is also called having an open mind..sometimes even just fellowship cause you might like somebody and how they view things..thats called fellowship too..Nobody is gangbanging Lazar or Dennis as Lears secret source..
in fact..you might say its the otherway around..and many are enjoying it..I just post to answer the question...which was meant to solicit opinion..



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