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The Smoking (Anti-Aircraft) Guns (of Los Angeles, 1942)

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posted on Sep, 5 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Hi Frank,

Thanks for asking what questions we have.

Here's what I read:


Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
Gambon, from my research into the case I don't think there was any manipulation with this photo. Early on in this thread, Gazrok directed me to another researcher (and fellow ATS Member) Frank Warren. While I have not met with Frank in person, I was able to verify through several sources (including Frank
) that he is in possession of the original LA Times Photo.

In Franks own words,
"It's sitting on my desk right now."

I'll U2U Frank, to see if he's willing to post in this thread regarding the picture. From what Frank told me during my initial investigation, was that the PEHI image was the highest resolution scan of the image available online.


I'm not sure exactly what Witnessfromafar wanted other than what he said there, but along the same lines I was also wondering where I would go to find the highest quality photo of the "battle of LA" to analyze (with all the spotlights converged), or more realistically a high quality scan of the photo.

And is the highest quality original source available to us from the newspaper? Or from the photographer's negative? Or something else?

Thanks again




posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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Mornin' Arbitrageur,


Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Hi Frank,

Thanks for asking what questions we have.

Here's what I read:


Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
Gambon, from my research into the case I don't think there was any manipulation with this photo. Early on in this thread, Gazrok directed me to another researcher (and fellow ATS Member) Frank Warren. While I have not met with Frank in person, I was able to verify through several sources (including Frank
) that he is in possession of the original LA Times Photo.

In Franks own words,
"It's sitting on my desk right now."

I'll U2U Frank, to see if he's willing to post in this thread regarding the picture. From what Frank told me during my initial investigation, was that the PEHI image was the highest resolution scan of the image available online.


I'm not sure exactly what Witnessfromafar wanted other than what he said there, but along the same lines I was also wondering where I would go to find the highest quality photo of the "battle of LA" to analyze (with all the spotlights converged), or more realistically a high quality scan of the photo.

And is the highest quality original source available to us from the newspaper? Or from the photographer's negative? Or something else?

Thanks again


I'll upload the image in the next few days in our "BOLA section" at The UFO chronicles; in the mean time, the very first place I released the image was at Jeff Rense's site (years ago); additionally, I sent a jpg to Bruce (Maccabee); henceforth, those two sites would have copies that aren't 100th generation clones . . . which by the way I have noticed some "degradation" in copies, even here in this thread.

Cheers,
Frank



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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Excellent work, this is my favourite incident to pull up on wiki whenever someone says aliens couldnt possibly exist.



posted on Sep, 6 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Frank Warren
Mornin' Arbitrageur,


Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Hi Frank,
..I was also wondering where I would go to find the highest quality photo of the "battle of LA" to analyze (with all the spotlights converged), or more realistically a high quality scan of the photo.

And is the highest quality original source available to us from the newspaper? Or from the photographer's negative? Or something else?

Thanks again


I'll upload the image in the next few days in our "BOLA section" at The UFO chronicles; in the mean time, the very first place I released the image was at Jeff Rense's site (years ago); additionally, I sent a jpg to Bruce (Maccabee); henceforth, those two sites would have copies that aren't 100th generation clones . . . which by the way I have noticed some "degradation" in copies, even here in this thread.

Cheers,
Frank


Frank that's very kind of you, thank you very much. I was wondering if there could be any degradation in what we were looking at, thanks for confirming it. I'll see if I can find it at the other places you mentioned but if not I'll look forward to you posting it here.

If it wouldn't be too much trouble do you think you could drop another post in this thread after you posted the image on ATS to confirm you've done it? No hurry but I have this thread flagged so updates will show up for me on "my ATS".

Thanks again Frank!

Regards, Arby



posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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Thanks Frank for stopping by and sharing your expertise!

And thanks Arby for re-posing Gambon's questions for Frank


I took an extended labor day (installed a shower woo hoo!), but I'm back now.
Nice to see so much activity in my absence!


-WFA



posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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Unverified Information from the National UFO Center -

This report could well be complete crap, but I found it today in my research, and thought it was worth posting...

"
Weekly Filers Files Last Updated: Sep 2nd, 2009 - 14:15:30

Filer's Files #36 - 2009
By
Sep 2, 2009, 13:30


"My father Lt. Col William J Brophy USAF told me in 1978, while watching a program about the Roswell crash called “In Search Of “about his UFO encounter over Georgia on November 4, 1950, with a large Nordic flown disk while he flew a C-47 transport from Robins AFB, GA. to McGuire AFB, NJ. He was interviewed by the Air Force and he found out the disk he had seen was just like the one the Navy was storing at Moffett Field Naval Airbase in Sunnyvale, Ca. One of the scientists my Dad talked to was Dr. Eric Henry Wang who was in charge of two very tall blond Nordics at Wright Patterson AFB, who had died after being shot down by anti-aircraft fire over Los Angeles and had crashed near San Clemente Island west of San Diego on Feb. 25, 1942.

My dad also flew the B-29 Silverplate bombers in New Mexico, he told me they were named after the 1942 Los Angeles disks and that the Trinity Bomb was named after the 3 inch guns in Los Angeles which shot the Nordics down. One of the ships involved in the recovery was the ARS-1 Viking Salvage Ship. Dad told me a second disk crashed in the San Gorgonio area and was recovered by the 31st Observation Squadron at San Bernardino Airport and personnel from March Field. Len Stringfield mentions the two Nordics in his Retrievals #3 book of 1982, Case B-8. If anyone has information about this please let me know. Thanks to William Brophy"

from the source:
www.nationalufocenter.com...

Anyway, just thought I'd share that, since it was heavy on detail, and therefore testable...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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Just had a "new" look at the photo again earlier tonight....strangely enough.

It still just blows my mind, simply the best out here/there.



posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


In following up on this report (linked above),

Lt. Col William J. Brophy was in fact a real person, in the US Air Force...

And seemingly a prolific writer...

"Brophy, William S. (LtCol, USA). U. S. Army Aviation Participation in the Counterdrug Effort. Carlisle Barracks, PA, Army War College, March 1993. 40 p.
Doc. call no.: M-U 39080-83 B7831u"

from the source:
www.au.af.mil...

And here is an image of another one of his books, this one about rifles:




I'll let you all know if I find further supporting evidence for these claims...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


In follow up to the above mentioned report, the ARS1 Viking was in the right place at the right time to have performed a salvage recovery off the coast of San Clemente.

"n June 1941, Guide was transferred back to the Navy and was named repair ship USS Viking (ARS-1). She worked primarily from bases in California until 1953, when she was sold for scrapping."

Source:
en.wikipedia.org...

and here:
"Placed "in service" on 3 January 1942, Viking was pronounced ready for duty on 12 February. Manned by a civilian crew and operated from San Diego by the Merritt, Chapman, and Scott salvage firm—a civilian company working under a contract let by the Bureau of Ships—Viking stood ready to perform salvage and rescue tasks in the 11th Naval District."

Source:
www.history.navy.mil...

I'll let you all know if further corroborating information emerges...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 8 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


Further information has emerged. The 31st Observation Squadron was indeed in San Bernardino during the Battle of LA...

"31st Observation Squadron, IV Air Support Command at San Bernardino
AAFld, California with O-49's."

Source:
paul.rutgers.edu...

More to come as further information develops...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


Further supporting information regarding the above linked report...

Moffett Airfield was in existence and under the control of the Navy in 1942:

"After the ditching of the Macon on February 12, 1935, and until 1941, the Navy transferred claimancy of Moffett Field to the War Department and the installation was under the control of the U.S. Army Air Corps. In 1941, control of the facility was returned to the Navy as NAS Moffett Field."

Source:
en.wikipedia.org...

I'll post any further information that emerges...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


More information regarding the above linked report...

In a (now-public) letter from William S. Steinman to Stanton Friedman, Dr. Eric Wang is identified:

"Also, as Bill Moore has probably already shared with you, I have contacted and interviewed Mrs. Eric Henry Wang, who verified that her husband was involved with the recovery, analysis, and attempted duplication of flying saucers. Through her, I also obtained the name of the man who was, and may still be, in charge of the whole flying saucer program."

Source:
www.skepticfiles.org...

I'm going to write a quick letter to Stanton, to confirm this report, and to get his take on Wang... I'll let you all know if anything turns up...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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A copy of my letter to Stanton Friedman, regarding my earlier post...

"Good Morning Stanton,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, I know that you are a busy man.

I'm currently investigating the Battle of Los Angeles, and I've come across a report by the son of Lt. Col. William Brophy. This report mentions Dr. Eric Wang, amongst others. In my search for supporting evidence in this case, I came across a letter from William S. Steinman to you, linked here:
www.skepticfiles.org...

Do you have any direct evidence that this Dr. Wang was a real person? Is this letter to you a real one, that you have knowledge regarding?

Thanks so much for your assistance in pointing me in the right direction.
My full investigation is here, if you'd like to review the case:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The question to you is on page 18 of the discussion


-(Witness From Afar - at ATS)"

Hopefully Stanton will join the discussion himself, however I will certainly post any reply he may send, for you all to view...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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In attempting to verify the reporting contained in the above posted Majestic Documents pertaining to the BOLA case...

I might just have hit the jackpot.

I've gained access to the Vannevar Bush Section of the FDR Library, and am examining documents from the proper period.

Of note so far, the following document from Bush to Rudolf Forster, dated March 16th, 1942:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

More to come as new information emerges...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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thats just a cover of a report??or am i missing something..

and the letters could have been written to fit the locations of people units etc at the time by people looking it up on the net ?to lend credence to whatever slant they wish to put on this story.


And does the paper that published the photo still have the negative or not?



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by gambon
thats just a cover of a report??or am i missing something..


Nope, you're not missing anything
The cover is all I've had time to link to so far...

But from the cover report there are facts we can glean, that are now confirmed.

1) Dr. Bush was indeed the go-to guy for this type of assignment
2) FDR and Dr. Bush were in direct communication during this time period, through memos similar to the Majestic Documents.
3) Dr. Bush recommends no copies of the actual documents be made or circulated, and refers to new classified information briefings.

This document re-inforces the timeline at play, and it seems to be a key piece in this puzzle, since it came directly from the FDR Archives...

There are more docs to come, I just haven't had time to link them here yet...


Originally posted by gambon
and the letters could have been written to fit the locations of people units etc at the time by people looking it up on the net ?to lend credence to whatever slant they wish to put on this story.


If you are referring to the Majectic Docs, I suppose that's possible, although the more supporting evidence that emerges to enforce the statements within the Maj Docs, the weaker that case becomes...

If you are referring to 'pro-ufo' websites writing articles that source federal documents, you are of course entitled to your opinion on such sites... however I'm looking for corroboration with the FDR archives currently, which isn't exactly a 'fringe' organization...


Originally posted by gambon
And does the paper that published the photo still have the negative or not?


The paper was the Los Angeles Times, and as I've noted before, that question should rightly be addressed to Frank Warren. I do not believe that there is a negative available, however it is important to remember that the year was 1942, photoshop (and any other form of computer animation/falsification) did not exist. Frank has now confirmed that the photo used at Rense.com is the highest resolution scan of the original available.

If you'd like to see the original photo freshly scanned, Frank is currently making it available at UFO Evidence. (Follow the link in his sig line...)

Several image analysts (including Jeff Ritzman and Dr. Bruce Maccabee) have examined the photo, and none of them have hinted at manipulation.

Perhaps you could be more specific about what sort of manipulation you suspect, and why you suspect it?

Thanks for the clarification Gambon


-WFA



posted on Sep, 9 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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In the interest of independent research and verification by the intrepid researchers here at ATS, here are some of the Bush Memos I've found so far in my research:

docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

Please post here if you find anything of interest pertaining to the BOLA case within these documents, I will do the same


These docs will take some time to read over, I'll post more of what I find within them as time allows...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 10 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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A request for assistance...

Fellow ATS Researchers interested in the BOLA Case, I've been going through the 'Safe' Files from the FDR Library Archives. These are the files that were kept in FDR's safe in the White House.

In this research, I've found several file folders I feel are worth examining.
There are 5 boxes of files, categorized by those sending/receiving the documents.

Within these 5 boxes of files, I've found the following interesting folders:

The Army Air Forces Index:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

The George C. Marshall Index:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

The Navy Dept. Index:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

The Vannevar Bush Index:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

The Misc. Index:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

The United Nations Index:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

The War Dept. Index:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...


There may be absolutely nothing within these reports that corroborates already sourced documents pertaining to the BOLA case.

Nonetheless, I feel it's worth a look.

If any of you out there are curious, and would like to help me search through these files, I would greatly appreciate it!

Also, here is a transcript of FDR's 'Fireside Chat' from February 23rd, 1942, where he speaks about the progress of the war. I feel this 'chat' is relevant to the BOLA case, as it outlines well the period of turmoil under which the United States existed at the time:
docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...

Still to be sourced:
The FDR Classified Files

More to come as further information emerges...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


Quick correction...

In my last post, I said that there were 5 boxes of 'Safe' Files, from FDR's safe, in the FDR library. I was mistaken. There are 6 boxes.

More to come as further information emerges...

-WFA



posted on Sep, 11 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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Interesting quote by J. Edgar Hoover:

"“We must insist upon full access to disks recovered. For instance, in the L.A. case, the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination."

Source: www.majesticdocuments.com...

-WFA




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