The Smoking (Anti-Aircraft) Guns (of Los Angeles, 1942)

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posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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Hello fellow ATS members, thanks for stopping by this thread.
I assure you that your time here will not be wasted.

First and foremost, I have a {THEORY} that the 'Battle of Los Angeles', once properly investigated, will provide everyone with at least ONE case of a truly Unidentified Flying Object, where the most likely explanation that fits the given evidence is that it was a vessel from somewhere outside of Earth.

To prove this theory, I'll first be introducing evidence supporting the reality of the event. This will consist of my (as of now incomplete) report on the event, formatted in the usual style of my Compilation posts, so that everyone can find everything I've found so far.

I will then ask for ATS members assistance in several ways:
1) Following up the spots in the report where the text [NEED DATA] occurs. The items of evidence (and sources) I have not yet been able to acquire will need finding. I'm going to keep on this case until I have the data for all of these blanks. It is my hope that some of you will join me in the pursuit of this data.

2) Debunk the crap out of all of it please. That's right, I'm asking for all of the skeptics here to step up and weigh in on the evidence, once posted, in this thread. I think that every possible explanation needs to be considered, and there is no better team of individuals fit to analyze this data that the collective group of skeptics here at ATS. Perhaps one of us will come up with some rational earthly explanation for this event, to date I haven't been able to do so on my own, and I'd like help from the pros!

3) There are several questions that have never been properly answered pertaining to the details of this event, and I believe that ATS members can work out the values for these variables. These questions will no doubt surface on their own throughout the thread, but here are a few to start:

A) How big is the UFO?
I believe that we can find out, using math, if we can get values for other variables...
B) Where is the Original LA Times Picture taken?
I believe that we can find out, using math and maps, if we can get values for other variables...
C) What are the specs on the AA guns? The Lights? etc.?
I believe that we can find out, by researching, and through teamwork.

I think you can see where this is going.
To date (January 24th, 2008) this event has not been explained, and in fact, I've yet to even see a place where ALL of the data is actually assembled for a thorough investigation. There have been many attempts at analysis by individuals, each only going so far.

I feel that with our collective resources and determination, we at ATS, skeptics and believers alike, can work together to assemble ALL of the data on this event here in this thread. I further feel that once the data is fully assembled, like any puzzle, the picture revealing the true events of February 24th-25th, 1942 will begin to come clear.

Thanks for your time, stay tuned for my report to date. I need to upload all of the images I've acquired so far to Imageshack, so please be patient. I plan to have the entire report (it's lengthy) up at some point today. As always, the links to pertaining ATS threads where this event has already been discussed (I've scoured them for data already) will conclude the report.

-WFA




posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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If someone has free access to this site:

access.newspaperarchive.com...

... it would be a huge help in finding out what the newspapers at the time made of it. I did a little bit of more detailed research on here a while back, and it was very enlightening. For instance, not many people realize that the reports were extremely varied, and that a week or so after the event the Secretary of War was talking about as many as 15 airplanes being spotted in various locations, and hinting that it maybe was associated with "insurgents," basically.

Over the years, a lot of the information (especially presented through sites like Rense.com) has been selectively whittled down to push it toward the "Alien UFO" theory. A broader look at the contemporary reports. however, have me thinking that it probably had something to do with a military SNAFU involving misidentification of U.S. aircraft, maybe out doing submarine patrols, getting shot at by a bunch of trigger happy goofballs who then started shooting at their own smoke. Then it got blamed on unknown saboteurs or Fifth Columnists, and covered up to keep American confidence in their defenses up. Makes more sense than some alien we have essentially zero evidence for (unless you count some blurry photos of smoke as evidence).



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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Evidence Description:
The Battle of Los Angeles is one of the most well documented UFO Cases of all time, and one of the first with direct involvement by the United States Armed Forces. The term UFO (as is always the case in my posts) is defined herein as: Unidentified Flying Object.

In researching this case I found seriously heated debate from both ‘believers’ and ‘skeptics’, ranging widely over a series of ATS Threads. I also found extensive external sources, mostly at odds over details of the documented event.

This report seeks to combine all of the data relevant to the case into a single comprehensive report, with an easily navigable source indexing. It is the opinion of this author that the comprehensive report allows for comparative analysis of a more productive sort, utilizing a shared database for the sourcing of evidence.

This article further seeks to expand the scope of the investigation into this case to date, by providing detailed maps of the area in question, with the relevant locations and observations plotted accordingly. Further analysis will be provided in the form of specifications for the equipment used by United States Armed Forces during this event. Finally, this thread will provide confirmation where possible, of eye-witnesses to (and victims of) the event, in the form of official documentation issued by the United States Federal Government.

Any of this evidence found lacking in the initial report will be followed up in this thread by myself (and hopefully others).

Article Legend:
Red = Categories
Yellow = Brief Description of Key Evidence
Green = Bibliography Tags
Purple = Source Links

Evidence Source(s):
Books {B-}Referencing the Battle:

{B-1} “Above Top Secret,” by Timothy Good, 1988, Quill/William Morrow; ISBN 0-688-09202-0
Available at: books.google.com...:0688092020
And here: www.ibookdb.net...
Picture of Book Cover:

Source:
ecx.images-amazon.com...

{B-2} “Weird California,” written by Greg Bishop Joe Oesterle and Mike Marinacci, was published on March 2, 2006, by Sterling Publishing. ISBN ISBN 978-1-40-273384-0.
Available here: books.google.com...
And here: www.ibookdb.net...
Picture of Book Cover:

Source:
ecx.images-amazon.com...

{B-3} “Battle of Los Angeles, 1942: The Silent Invasion Begins,” by Terrenz Sword
ufoinfo.com...
And now defunct: www.gazellebookservices.co.uk...
The author’s website is here: www.geocities.com...
Picture of Book Cover:

Source:
ecx.images-amazon.com...

{B-4} The History of the 4th AA Command, Western Defense Command, (Also linked below as an ‘Internet Article’): cufon.org...

{B-5} “The Army Air Forces in World War II,” was prepared under the editorship of Wesley Frank Craven, and James Lea Cate. v.1, pp. 277-286, Washington, D.C.: Office of Air Force History: For sale by the Supt. of Docs., U.S. G.P.O., 1983.

Next up are the Newspaper Articles detailing the event, I appreciate your patience, as the formatting takes time...



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Nohup
If someone has free access to this site:

access.newspaperarchive.com...

... it would be a huge help in finding out what the newspapers at the time made of it.


fully agreed Nohup, it would be a huge help. Just wait till I post the next entry, with the newspaper links, I've tracked down several that are behind that $ wall...



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 06:50 PM
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I'm all up for some good ole fashioned research. This is what the forum is all about.

Present your info and I will help you out.




posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by Dulcimer
 


Thanks Dulcimer! When I'm done posting the data I've gathered, I'll cross-reference with your site and add in the new data to my report.

I hope to get a lot of new data out of this thread, and I appreciate your help so far!

-WFA



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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The army says this "thing" (UFO) is a weather balloon?


How many weather balloons cause a huge panic, are disk-like in shape, and can't be brought down by ammunition/the army and military?

I would want to know what that weather balloon was made of, then we could build indestructible tanks. But of course, it wasn't a balloon and it's the object of 1942 in Los Angeles remains unidentified (Unidentified Flying Object to be exact).



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:27 PM
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{N-12} The New York Times, February 26, 1942, 'Los Angeles Guns Bark at Air 'Enemy'' (includes a high quality photo, which was included in the original article):
Image of Original Article here: [NEED DATA]
Transcript here: www.pehi.eu...

{N-13} The New York Times, Dec. 11, 1941 Unless this archive article is incorrectly dated, Los Angeles had a similar blackout approximately 2 months before the event.
Transcript here (Registration Required):
select.nytimes.com...

{N-14} Glendale News-Press Wednesday, Feb. 25th, 1942, 'Anti-Aircraft Guns Blast at L.A. Mystery Invader':
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
bp3.blogger.com...
and here:
www.maxwelldemille.com...
Transcript here:
www.pehi.eu...

{N-15} The Modesto Bee (Feb.25th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-16} The Modesto Bee (March 11th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-17} San Mateo Times (Feb. 26th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.bookmice.net...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-18} San Mateo Times (Dec. 31, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-19} Reno Gazette (Feb. 26th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.bookmice.net...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-20} Reno Evening Gazette (Feb. 27th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-21} Galverstone Daily (Feb. 26th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.bookmice.net...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-22} Galverstone Daily Follow-up w/Map (Feb. 26th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.bookmice.net...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-23} Oakland Tribune (Feb. 26th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.bookmice.net...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-24} The Lowell Sun (Feb. 25th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-25} The Lowell Sun (Feb. 26th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:


Sources:
Cover Page here:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Follow up here:
www.bookmice.net...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-26} The Lowell Sun (Feb. 27th 1942) (Reprint of Article from Feb25th):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]



Sorry that it takes a while to format this info properly for ATS.
I appreciate everyone's patience. I'm gonna go take a quick break for about 10 minutes, and then I'll get back to posting the rest of this data.
There are more Newspaper Articles to follow, before we can continue on with the Evidence, etc. For now please feel free to take in what has been posted so far, while I let my fingers rest a bit



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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I would also like to add that this UFO incident should be known a lot more to the public, like the Roswell crash (but the Los Angeles encounter is more dramatic IMO).


But those who know of this event should respect how rare and extraordinary this event was. I think we should debate about the L.A. event and others like it (Aurora, TX incident; Betty & Barney Hill; and other great but not as well known UFO occurrences) a lot more.



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Monsterenergy791
 


I could not agree more, this needs to be talked about.
I'd also like to re-inforce my original statement here, that this event has not even been investigated thoroughly! Each source I have found examines one (or several) aspect of the event, but to date I have not seen ALL of the evidence gathered, let alone examined in context.

Thanks for your reply Monsterenergy.

I'm back from my break now, and will post more data as soon as I have it formatted for ATS...



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 



Hopefully some more members will post on this thread to make this thread more active and add some insight about this event.


I'm also looking for more posts by you, WitnessFromAfar because I want to know more about this event, even though I've heard of it before - but I've never really looked into it in-depth.



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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This is the conclusion of the Newspaper Articles section of this report.
Following this post I will add further supporting evidence in other forms...


{N-27} Mansfield News Journal (Feb. 25, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-28} Mansfield News Journal (March 2, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-29} Mansfield News Journal (March 3, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...

{N-30} The Scotsman, February 26, 1942, 'False Alarm in Los Angeles'
Image of Original Article here:

Transcript here:
www.pehi.eu...

{N-31} The Scotsman, February 27, 1942, 'Los Angeles Incident':
Image of Original Article here:

Transcript here:
www.pehi.eu...

{N-32} Edwardsville Intelligencer, February 27, 1942:
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-33} The Salisbury Times (April 9th, 1942) {Could relate to later Los Angeles Blackout…):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-34} Wisconsin Rapids Daily (Feb. 25th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-35} Wisconsin Rapids Daily (Feb. 26th, 1942):
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-36} Topeka Capital-Journal has a fairly recent (2002) article interviewing an eyewitness:
Online Article//Transcript here: www.cjonline.com...
Frank Dougan, the eyewitness, is pictured here:

Source:
www.cjonline.com...

{N-37} LongBeach Press-Telegram & Los Angeles Herald-Examiner Excerpts February 25, 1942, more testimonies about the Battle of Los Angeles
Transcript here:
www.pehi.eu...

{N-38} LongBeach Press-Telegram (Feb. 10, 2004):
Summary here:
nl.newsbank.com... _direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date
&s_trackval=GooglePM

{N-39} St. Petersburg Times (March 20, 2005): Article briefly summarizes the event
Transcript here:
www.sptimes.com...

{N-40} Los Angeles Daily News:
Image of Original Article here:

Source:
www.newspaperarchive.com...
Transcript here: [NEED DATA]

{N-41} Los Angeles Examiner: [NEED DATA]

{N-42} The Long Beach Independent: [NEED DATA]

{N-43} The Daily Breeze: [NEED DATA]

Many of the above listed articles are also transcribed at: home.planet.nl...


This concludes the 'Newspaper Article' section of my report, please stay tuned. Up next will be Internet Articles pertaining to this event...



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 08:35 PM
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Evidence:

Images:
Actual LA Times Photo (Originally Printed in the Los Angeles Times, in 1942):


From the LA Times Original Negative:


Another LA Times Negative:


Bruce Maccabee’s Analyzed Images:




Rense.com Image(s):

Enhanced Image:

Another Enhanced Image, this one submitted by ATS member: Dulcimer:

Another Enhanced Image, this one submitted by ATS member: megamanXplosion:

The following two Enhanced Images were provided by ATS member: Carnival_Of_Souls:


The following two Altered Images were submitted by ATS member: MasisOar, for comparison with the actual anti-aircraft artillery explosions to the theoretical ‘smoke cloud’ theory, comparing not only size, but expected distribution:
What we would expect from AAA explosions:
BAD LINK [NEED DATA]
What the ‘smoke cloud’ theory suggests:
BAD LINK [NEED DATA]

Still more to come...



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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Continuing on with the Evidence of the case...

Radar Return Data:
[NEED DATA]

Video:
This now defunct site was posted by ATS member: hawkeyed, it was supposed to have shown video of the event apparently…
tinyul.com...
After researching further, I believe I’ve found the clip here:
www.surfingtheapocalypse.net...
sourced to here:
video.google.ca...
It’s inserted into a trailer for Jose Escamilla (known fraud/hoaxer)’s latest film.
The clip is inserted at timestamp: 4:50, and continues until 5:49, related info on the battle is featured then until 6:16
The full movie is linked to be available here (but is now defunct):
video.google.co.uk...
Jose is (of course) SELLING the video at:
www.theufomovie.com...
This footage is also available for free (the trailer anyway) from disclose.tv, in a 2:30 presentation here: www.disclose.tv...
It is also here, sourced as originally from MSNBC:
www.youtube.com...

Analysis on the Disclose.tv presentation is provided by James Oberg.
The same footage is also available here, posted by ‘Licenced2Chill’, from the UK:
www.liveleak.com...
The footage is also here:
www.vloggingtheapocalypse.com...

Related Documents:

1942: Gen. Marshall's memo to Pres. Roosevelt:
www.presidentialufo.com...
Source: www.presidentialufo.com...
Also here:


1942: Pres. Roosevelt’s memo to General Marshall:
209.132.68.98...
Source: www.majesticdocuments.com...

1942: Pres. Roosevelt’s memo to Secretary of War, Harry Stimson:

Source: www.presidentialufo.com...

1942: The ‘Questionable Marshall/Roosevelt memo’ of event:
209.132.68.98...
Source: www.majesticdocuments.com...

Eyewitness Testimony:
Eyewitness Testimony from the Great Grandfather of ATS member: ConfederacyOfUnity is here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm CERTAIN that there is more Eyewitness Testimony out there, in fact much of it is in the above sourced Newspaper Articles. Collecting transcripts for each Eyewitness is IMO pertinent in this investigation, and I hope with the help of others to assemble such here in this thread.

Death Certificates of the Victims:
[NEED DATA]


More still to come...
I believe I can wrap this report up in the next post, so everyone who is interested, let's get this investigation going!



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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This last segment of my report, as all unfinished investigations must, asks more questions than it answers.

Much is still to be done in this investigation, and following this report I will continue to delve into these questions. The more variables we are able to solve for, the less mysterious the equation. I for one, want to solve for as many of these variables as we can, so that the overall picture will begin to clear...


Relevant Data on the Setting:
No cloud cover? Area Weather at the time: [NEED DATA]
At this time all internet archives I can find go back to 1946, does anyone have this data? Can we get it from an original newspaper?
Map(s) of Area: [NEED DATA]
This is key. I'm hoping others will also see the benefit here. Plotting the flightpaths & sightings on a map will tell us a lot about what the eyewitnesses saw that night.
3d Map(s) of Area: (Modern Weather Reporting for Source?) [NEED DATA]
Plotted Location of Camera Man: [NEED DATA]
Edited Version of Original Photo, With Locations Marked: [NEED DATA]
Location(s) of Anti-Aircraft Artillery Batteries: [NEED DATA]
Location(s) of Search Lights: [NEED DATA]
Location(s) of U.S. Airfields in the Area: [NEED DATA]
Location(s) of Eyewitnesses: [NEED DATA]
Location(s) of the Casualties: [NEED DATA]

Relevant Data on the People Involved:
Picture of General Marshall:


On General Marshall’s credentials, from one Thread:
“It's also interesting to note that the General Marshall who sent a report to the president is the same General Marshall who was the Army Chief of Staff, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, and creator of the "Marshall Plan" that revitalized Europe after the war. He was also Chairman of the Red Cross and won a Nobel Peace Prize in 1953. He's buried in Arlington National Cemetery. Talk about a credible source!!!”
–peanutbutterjellytime {Spelling Corrected by WFA}

More on General Marshall in relation to this event here:
strangecorridor.blogspot.com...

Picture of Secretary of the Navy, William Franklin ‘Frank’ Knox:


Picture of Secretary of War, Henry Lewis Stimson:


Picture of Optical Physicist, (Image analyst whose work is featured above) Dr. Bruce Maccabee:


One of the Image Analysts, Frank Warren can be contacted here:
frank-warren@pacbell.net
Frank's website is here:
frankwarren.blogspot.com...
He also appears to be an ATS member: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Relevant Data on the Materials:
Shell & Gun Data: [NEED DATA]
Typical ground based anti-aircraft gun in use during the 1940's:

Source:
strangecorridor.blogspot.com...
Searchlight Data: [NEED DATA]
Highest Quality Human-made Armor Available in 1942 Specs: [NEED DATA]
Anti-Aircraft Artillery ‘Targeting Balloon’ Data: [NEED DATA]
‘Field Glasses’ (Visual Observation Equipment in use by the U.S. Armed Forces at the time) Data: [NEED DATA]
Radar Array Data: [NEED DATA]

Relevant Data on the Associated Happenings of the Time:
Japanese Sub Attack, Prior to the Battle of Los Angeles: [NEED DATA]
Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor, Prior to the Battle of Los Angeles: [NEED DATA]
Protocols for A Black-Out/Air-Raid Alert: [NEED DATA]
Protocols for Anti-Aircraft Artillery Fire Authorization: [NEED DATA]

Information on LA’s historical re-enactment is here:
ftmac.org...
and here:
www.maxwelldemille.com...
and here:
laparks.blogspot.com...
and at this now defunct site: www.ftmac.org...


ATS Thread(s) Pertaining to Evidence:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


This ends my initial investigation into the Battle of Los Angeles.
It is my hope that others here at ATS will now join in the hunt for data on this case, now that I've made my research into this event public.

It is my hope that together, we can paint a much clearer picture of the events of February 24th-25th, 1942, over the skies of Los Angeles.

Thoughts? Data? All views are welcomed and appreciated.

-WFA



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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Okay, I realize that I just threw a lot of Data at everyone, and that it's hard to absorb all at once.

I'd like to now offer a starting point for investigation. I feel that the original image contains the clues to obtaining the location of the photographer. We'll need some data to figure this particular mystery out, but it should be possible.

Knowing the location of the photographer will help us get a bearing on how large the 'object' was.

To begin to locate the photographer's location, I've done an image enhancement of the original LA Times photo. I added red lines and numbers to bring out the searchlight beams.



I count 9 searchlights, with the 9th beam possibly representing 2 searchlights.

We should be able to figure out where these searchlights were located along the coastline. Since 1942 was well over 50 years ago, the information cannot possibly be considered a matter of national security now in 2008. Further, the proximity of the searchlight beams in relation to one another should help us to guage distance, once their actual locations are known.

It appears, since the photographer is claiming to be photographing the skies over Culver City, and since several of these spotlights originate from a 'line' along the coast, that the picture was taken facing at least vaguely West (the direction of the coast from Culver City).

For those unfamiliar with the layout of Los Angeles, here is an image of Culver City in relation to the coast:


I'll be along the coast a bit this weekend, and will inquire at the LifeGuard Stations as to where the Anti-Aircraft Batteries and Searchlights were located. If anyone has any further data, I'd love to hear it.

We need to know the following:
1) Locations of searchlights
2) Limitations of searchlights (distance they shine)

I'm almost certain that we can also use the mountain range for location determination, if we can find comparison photos. Later this evening I'll try to do up an image analysis focusing on the mountains.


Sorry again for the overload of data, perhaps the original image is the best place to start this investigation. I'd really appreciate any comments and analysis from other members. Even ideas on how to determine our missing variables would be useful!

-WFA



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 01:18 AM
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Okay, here is the same image, with the mountainscape outlined for clarity.
I'll be driving through Culver City over the weekend anyway, so I'll keep my eyes open for a match, and keep my camera handy.


Any ATS members that happen to reside in the Los Angeles area are free to contribute in this manner also.

For those living outside the immediate area, you can still assist in this location search. Google has good terrain maps of the area, and I'm planning on doing a comprehensive analysis on the local mountains soon for comparison.

This is all I have time for tonight though. Thanks all for examining the data, any feedback would be much appreciated.

-WFA





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