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Tax rebates deal announced

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apc

posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 

I don't care about Bush. I care about our government not caring if they destroy the Dollar. Throwing out a few billion to keep the plebs at bay isn't going to help.




posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by apc
 


I agree. Rebates are stupid, the government should stop trying to interfere in the economy and use that money to pay down the debt.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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President Bush has put economic policy back on a Keynesian basis with his stimulus package.
Does anybody knows what the keynesian basis is?.

Neo-Keynesian economics

en.wikipedia.org...


By following Nobel economist Robert Mundell’s advice to “reverse the policy mix,” the supply-side policy allowed the US economy to grow without paying for the growth with rising rates of inflation. However, the new macroeconomic policy was not a cure-all, and its success in banishing worsening “Philips curve” trade-offs between inflation and employment masked the appearance of new problems, such as the loss of jobs and GDP growth to offshoring, problems from deregulation, and the growing concentration of income in fewer hands.


www.economyincrisis.org...

This model will not work this time as our economy is no longer selfsupported but base on imports, the money for the stimulus will benefit imports and the countries that provide them China.



[edit on 26-1-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Two words: deficit spending

The government, which is trillions of dollars in debt, will spend 150 billion dollars it doesn't have on "economic stimulous".

Keynes



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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Exactly our economic doesn't work anymore on a determined pattern.

Is manipulated by numbers.

Bush and congress idea that people will put back money into economy rather than spend it on paying bills is flawless.

Americans are up to their necks on bills so our economy is no solvent is not a job waiting to pay back the bills in demand as used to be with our parents and their parents before us.

The money will go on spending on imports bringing nothing to the economy but just economic drain.

Most poor or low income goes to bargain stores like Wal-mart to do their shopping this stores are full of nothing but Chinese goods.

Who's economy will be boosted here?

The answer is obvious, just to play with numbers and give the GDP a one or two quarterly fake good outlooks is deceiving an immoral just because is election year.

From my source.


According to reports, 70% of the goods on Wal-Mart shelves are made in China. During 2006, Americans spent $1,861,380,000,000 on imported goods, that is, 23% of total personal consumption expenditures were spent on imports (including offshored goods). This means that between one-fifth and one-fourth of new consumption expenditures will stimulate foreign economies.
.

So will the stimulus package work?

No it will not.


The Keynesian policy of driving the economy through consumer demand was applied to a different economy than the one we have today. In those days the goods Americans purchased, such as cars and appliances, were mainly made in America. Construction workers were not illegals sending their wages back to Mexico. The US had a robust manufacturing workforce.


America today is a different American economically.


[edit on 26-1-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 

Are you capable of independent thought or do you just cut and paste everything I say and 'fill in the blanks'. Very schoolyardesque of you.


Can you pen your own response this time? Are you capable of forming an answer all your own? Explain to me your reasons that NOT being prepared is a great idea. What are your thoughts on OTC Derivatives and CDS's?



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


When people like you are so obviously blinded by ideology, I don't need to waste any thinking on you. It wouldn't change a thing. Plus, your doing something called "projecting" - where you are accusing me of things in your rhetoric that actually your doing. No need to be original when your doing the things you accuse others of.

Can you pen your own response this time? Are you capable of forming an answer all your own instead of parroting the mass media? Explain to me your reasons why running around like its economic Armageddon IS something I should be doing. What are your thoughts on all the signs that this is cyclical recession?

Also for the future, please read. It's important. Being prepared for anything is fine, I never said otherwise. But there is a difference between having a normal emergency savings account for 6 months worth of expenses and cashing our your retirement for gold coins and food rations. The later represents stupidity, the former is most prudent no matter what the status of the economy is.

Anyone who attempts to time the market who is not a professional (ie, making a few hundred thousand a year off it already) will fail. Every time. The amateur investor listens to the mass media and BUYS HIGH and SELLS LOW. The good amateur investor is diversified already, so there is no need to panic. You just watch MSNBC and feel out for when the next wave of emotional panic comes, and short the market.

While I know everyone wants to play psuedo-economist and act smart by musing on financial instruments, starting a long post about derivatives is even further off this topic than the thread already is.

So, bringing it back to the topic: rebates = bad idea. Government needs to stay out, cut spending, and pay down debt. Interfering with the market is always a bad idea, it results in a market thats even worse off and a government with even more debt. There is nothing to fix, because the economy is not something that is fixed by outside interference. It goes up, it goes down. Its a cycle.

[edit on 26-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 



Anyone who attempts to time the market who is not a professional (ie, making a few hundred thousand a year off it already) will fail. Every time. The amateur investor listens to the mass media and BUYS HIGH and SELLS LOW. The good amateur investor is diversified already, so there is no need to panic.


This statement is contradictory. On the one hand you have the 'Good Amateur Investor' who is diversified. Yet according to the previous sentences, there is no such thing as a 'Good Amateur' because they're not a professional (100's k a year) and therefore will 'fail everytime'.

Still waiting for your view on OTC's and CDS's.





While I know everyone wants to play psuedo-economist and act smart by musing on financial instruments, starting a long post about derivatives is even further off this topic than the thread already is.


HAHAHA I see from your edit that you would like to stay away from dealing with the root of the matter. Very well then, thanks for wasting my time.


[edit on 26-1-2008 by HimWhoHathAnEar]



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


If you think that is contradictionary then you have a basic misunderstanding of the market. Anyone with money can buy funds that are automatically diversified. It's become even easier with target retirement funds: not only are they already diversified, but the risk decreases automatically as you approach retirement. It doesn't take any skill to be diversified, even if you have no idea what your doing.

However, there is no such scheme for timing the market. There are lots and lots of people who believe they can, and they lose everything. Even the professionals try it, and often fail. But hey, you go for it!

HAHAHA I see from your edit that you would like to stay away from dealing with the root of the matter. Very well then, thanks for wasting my time.
Enjoy that mass media hype that you love so much! Typical mass media follower response - demand everyone else explain financial instruments to you. Sorry, I'm not spoon feeding you and going off topic. If you want to start a discussion, you can u2u me or start another thread.

[edit on 26-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 



Anyone with money can buy funds that are automatically diversified. It's become even easier with target retirement funds: not only are they already diversified, but the risk decreases automatically as you approach retirement. It doesn't take any skill to be diversified, even if you have no idea what your doing.


You've just described the fallacy of Derivatives. 'Automatically Diversified', and 'Risk Decreases', are the very Lies that will destroy peoples retirement savings. I'm the one spoon feeding you, and I grow tired.........




posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


You just explained your fundamental misunderstanding of how the market works. I suggest you read up on risk allocation. Different investments and financial instruments carry varying levels of risk which are proportional to the reward. The more riskier an investment is, the higher the reward, and vice versa. Amateur investors who are interested in making money in the market based on analysis instead of gambling should be investing based on their time horizon and risk tolerance. The greater your time horizon, the bigger the risk tolerance you can handle, the shorter, the less tolerance you can handle. People interested in not losing all their money should be diversified, with varying levels of risk tolerance being scaled to their personal preferences.

If you actually think there is some sort of causation correlation between TARGET RETIREMENT FUNDS (which is what your out of context quote of me is talking about) and DERIVATIVES, I cannot help you. But I won't let the fact that derivatives are only one small part of leveraging risks in retirement funds among numerous other financial investments (in fact, most funds don't even use them) get in the way of your doomsday prophecies. You need more spoon feeding than I can give. The only thing that destroys peoples retirement are alarmists decrying every recession as the next armageddon.




[edit on 27-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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The New York City and state pensions in November were named as co-lead plaintiffs for the five class-action suits accusing Countrywide of inflating earnings and overstating its ability to weather the housing slump. The underwriters sued were: ABN Amro Inc , AG Edwards & Sons, Inc. , Banc of America Securities LLC , Barclays Capital Inc. , BNP Paribas Securities, , BNY Capital Markets, Inc. , Citigroup Global Markets Inc. , Countrywide Securities Corporation, Deutsche Bank Securities Inc. , Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein Securities Inc , Goldman, Sachs & Co. , Greenwich Capital Markets, Inc., HSBC Securities (USA) Inc. , J.P. Morgan Securities Inc. , Lehman Brothers Inc. , Merrill, Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Inc. , Morgan Stanley & Co. Inc. , RBC Capital Markets Corporation , RBC Dominion Securities Inc., RBC Dain Rauscher Inc., Scotia Capital Inc., SG Americas Securities, TD Securities Inc. , UBS Securities LLC , Wachovia Capital Markets LLC and Wachovia Securities, Inc. .

news.moneycentral.msn.com...

This is what happens when Wall Street is allowed to package up a bunch of garbage and call it 'Diversified' and 'Reduced Risk'. These are Pension Funds, Peoples RETIREMENTS!



posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 




I'm sorry, what? No. I am/was/have been talking about TARGET RETIREMENT FUNDS, which are mutual fund choices INDIVIDUAL INVESTORS make about where to put their money. I did an internship with a state retirement fund for my masters degree (MPA), and I can absolutely assure you they are shooting with bigger guns than target retirement funds. State pensions have their own team of investment managers, and they aren't investing in mutual funds aimed at peoples Roth IRA money.

Also, state pensions vary widely in their allocation options. Some are forced contributions, some are optional, others don't even have an employee contribution requirement. A huge majority are subsidized in large part and GUARANTEE EMPLOYEES A MINIMAL X AMOUNT PENSION REGARDLESS OF MARKET PERFORMANCE. No state employee should be relying on a pension even if they are in a state that guarantees a return (like the state I worked for, and most others). The pension amount is little, and they could do far better investing their own money.

...in Target Retirement Funds.
Much as you like, you can't blame everything on Wall Street.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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rebate? REBATE? REEEEEEEBATE?

Say it for me! say it for me 3 times really fast!
rebate rebate rebate..

There, now you sound like the proverbial FROG in the slowly boiling pot of water.
Just as the water starts to simmer, they turn down the heat, just a little. SO we don't notice. At least until the election.

You'll also probably notice a downturn in gas prices too. It's happening here.
Gas is down about 10 cents a gallon in the past 2 weeks.

Bribery..with money that was supposed to be MINE in the first place.
They really think we are stupid.



posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 



...in Target Retirement Funds. Much as you like, you can't blame everything on Wall Street.


The problem with these vehicles is that no one really knew what was in them. They had the AAA stamp of MBIA, AMBAC, etc. So regardless of what type of fund, they were still being purchased. And not just here in America. The Insurers ratings are being downgraded and the litigation is starting. Worse yet, we still don't know where all this stuff is. I do agree that the Loan Sharks on Wall St aren't totally to blame. The Enabler of their criminality is the The Federal Reserve allowing a Credit Bubble of unprecedented size.

So, we come to the Rebate and the Interest Rate reductions with the printing presses pumping out Hundreds of Billions that don't exist. All that money devaluing the existing money tied up in these 'Funds'. Making them worth less. Hell of an investment strategy. They call it Moral Hazard, I call it Highway Robbery.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by MagicaRose

Sorry but my husband and I are on Social Security Disability and we could use that money for medications , doctors, shelter and food.
I agree with the other poster. The government just sweeps the poor and elderly under the rug in this country.

Up until 2 years ago my husband was a hard worker all of his life and contributed taxes to this country for over 45 years and this is what he gets for it. NOTHING!!
Because of our "low" income we don't have to pay taxes.

NOTHING!!

[edit on 24-1-2008 by MagicaRose]


NOTHING? NOTHING?

I guess my definition of NOTHING is a little different than yours.
How about: "my husband and I are on Social Security Disability"
That's certainly something isn't it?

You are getting money from the government for a disability (which these days can be a phantom pain in your left pinky toe) and I would be willing to bet that the total you get over remainder of your lives is 3, 4 or 10 times the amount you put in while you "contributed taxes to this country for over 45 years"


Your living, your breathing, your talking and typing and complaining.. what does that say about your "nothing"?


I don't have a grudge against you or anyone for that matter, I am glad you are being taken care of. It's the attitude that I dislike, how you take for granted what you are getting, who you are getting it from and then saying you get "NOTHING"

If you want to bitch about it not being enough.. fine, whip out the calculator and figure out what you believe you are owed and if it's accurate I'll get behind you all call your congress representative, but if you are getting more (or will over the course of your expected life) don't bother


This is the attitude that makes America sink lower and lower, it's what can the US Government do for me rather than what you can (or could have) done for yourself.

Did you invest? No, did you save? No.
And since you didn't do those things, or at least didn't do them well now you want the Governement to ride in on a horse and save you? And when they DO ride in and give you a small bag of cash and benefits, you yell at the rider that you're getting NOTHING!!!

You certainly have enough money to pay for the Internet (oh, let me guess., you're at a library?) and a computer.

>>"The government just sweeps the poor and elderly under the rug in this country."

WHAT A CROCK!

"my husband and I are on Social Security Disability"

You have disability, full medical (Medicaide-Medicare) and I bet you pay very little for meds if at all. INDEED! It doesn't sound like you've been sweep under the rug at all.

Sure Uncle Sam isn't going to buy you a big shiny new LCD TV but it does give you enough to live. I certainly believe in taking care of thiose less fortunate than myself and that includes disabled people but I for one, do not wish to pay for your mistakes or for more than you need to live on.

I know how much SS and SSD pay, a lot of people pretend that SS and SSD give you 5.00 a month and kick you to the curb.. it's not true.



YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO GET A "REBATE" CHECK WHEN YOU CONTRIBUTE NOTHING TO THE POT.
Your past contributions are being returned to you via SSD and SS and other government teats.



Although I detest a lot of the crap that republicans do, it's this liberal attitude that keeps me from voting democrat.

Dems always say the elderly and poor get "NOTHING!", when in reality they get a lot and they get it for nothing.. and they pay.. nothing.


I am all for helping the less fortunate, the elderly, the "can't do's" and the disabled, but to a point. No one should be cold, no one should starve, no one should be homeless, no one should be sick.. beyond that... that's where NOTHING should really mean.. NOTHING!



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 09:31 AM
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I put a band aid on a gaping wound and it didn't stop the bleeding...hmmm go figure...



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar


This is what happens when Wall Street is allowed to package up a bunch of garbage and call it 'Diversified' and 'Reduced Risk'. These are Pension Funds, Peoples RETIREMENTS!


Ya I know how you feel, my husband and me have busted our arses off for over thirty years, stuggled just about the whole time just to come up with the money that we needed.....lol.....savings"" ya right!! social security...ya right....retirement funds...ya right....it's all been scammed away! and, well, my kids will be left with a massive bill to top it off!!

And not one danged candidate, at least the ones who even have half a shot, have given me any indication that they are talking straight, or that they have any intention to stop the scamming!

Retirement....
....I'll just hope that I die before my kids get zapped with the bills of my old age on top of the bills our fine government is making for them, thank you!!!

by the way, the poor, the elderly, the disabled are now getting more than many of the taxpayers can afford to get for themselves!

www.msnbc.msn.com...

try being hurt, and still having to work, just so you can keep that danged health insurance long enough to have a doctor decide that hey, maybe you are disabled!
quit griping about what you aren't getting, you are already getting more than some who are footing the tab have!

[edit on 28-1-2008 by dawnstar]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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Nancy Pelosi is mucho grosey,
Doesn't anyone see the big picture? All of these tax REFUNDS will accumulate more interest on money that is on loan from the private business(s) that print out money for the banks. So ultimately the American people will not only be in debt up to their eye balls from the war in Iraq, and perhaps the up and coming war in Iran from the money that we borrowed plus interest, but we will soon be even more in debt up to our eyeballs due to all of the large lump sums refunded due to the interest, remember that when you enjoy that measily $600. to $1700. Oh and another thing, just say no to the NORTH AMERICAN UNION, it's bull!@#$%. One currancy is not only a hard thing to adjust to by handling it, it's a total mystery to me how Bush expects to merge three different economies into one cash value. JUST SAY NO to the Real ID, I will not carry around that homing device, I didn't sign my life away to someone else. I DO NOT WANT EVERY LITTLE POS piece of info or file on my easily referanced by the shadey MOFO's that seem to pepper spray, batton, and shoot those plastic ball guns @ people that are just trying to exercise their constitutional right to protest and then blame it on them by saying that someone threw a bottle. When evidence that the police state collected at the scene, being a video recording says just to the contrary. There was no bottle!!! This happened in 2002 in I believe Oregon, if you want to see a real police state...google it. How about Marshall law and the suburben traing exercises in Texas. What the F was that, how is it legal for the marines to stop, detain, and search civilians without cause? Stopping a person in their car at a check point, having them exit the vehicle, sit on the ground with their hands behind their back and ransacking their vehicle...??? NWO much!



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio

my letter to Sen. Lindsey Graham fell on either deaf ears or the heirarchy in power above him said----pppffffttttttttt! to my kind!





Well............... i gotta Eat Crow right now !

here on Thursday the 7th of Feb '08, the Senate just passed an ammendment to the 'stimulus package' bill @ ~ 4:35 PM Eastern

the ammendment includes a "rebate check" for fixed income Senior Citizens and Disabled Veterans ...& their spouses.

The Ammendment comes half-way close to what i wrote Sen. Lindsey Graham ...and suggested that All Veterans should receive a
rebate check, not only for their patriotic service in the prime of their lives
and career Veterans patriotic service throughout their best earning years.

nothing could be finer !

Not casting dispersion on the vast majority of low income people who are
targeted for a 'rebate check'...but lets put a little value judgement in
the Equasion - and not exclude the millions of veterans as a class of
honest, productive, tax-paying, patriots...
in whose face the congress slammed the door during the last 'tax rebate check' handout.


Bravo to the Senate --- let's see if the House will follow-up with a resounding affirmation of the ammended Bill !



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