Tax rebates deal announced

It seems clear to me that this stimulus package is just one more attempt on the part of the Bush administration to prevent the expected crash on his watch. Next year, when we talk about how this effort failed, Republicans will be able to say "its not our fault."

Based on what's happening overseas, we already know that there simply isn't enough positive cash to offset the negative tidal wave that's coming. As so many have already said, postponement of this 'impact' is only going to make it worse.

So...my question is...what will you do about it be-fore hand? I've already paid off my plastic. That's really all I can do to insulate myself from the worst of what's coming.

What says the rest of you?

[edit on 25-1-2008 by Justin Oldham]

This is a ridiculous band-aid that will never work- and a cheap attempt to boost morale during an "election" year. I liken it to a vicious, selfish king brushing the tiniest crumbs off his table to the starving subjects- who now are hungry enough to eat any scraps and be grateful.

I am no so easily bought. Hope not many on here are either.

Its like a "Blue Light" special at KMART. I don't shop there either!

swoop!

reply to post by Justin Oldham


I continue to be amazed at how people can be so completely blinded by political ideology. Perhaps you didn't know, but your democratic leaders (ie, not the "republicans) helped initiate and pass this package in the house. Much as you may like to, you can't blame everything in the world on George Bush.

I see no "tidal wave" coming, I see a regular cyclical recession. There is nothing that can be done to stop it, nor is there any reason to. Nor will most consumers even notice it, except for the media trumpeting it as a financial armageddon in their typical way of sensationalizing the news.

reply to post by Justin Oldham


Stocking up on necessities is never a bad idea. Great way to beat inflation. Why pay more for the necessities of life later when you can get them now? That's what I'll be spending my pittance of freshly printed Debt Notes on.

Gonna do a garden this year too. Thinking about some chickens as well.

reply to post by LightinDarkness

Nah, the fiat house of credit cards is coming down. We're using war to keep it propped up, but it won't last. Even printing money we eventually run out of trees.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
So...my question is...what will you do about it be-fore hand?

Increased bullion a bit. Not really messing with much else.

Building a small vegetable plot, too.

reply to post by LightinDarkness

I see no "tidal wave" coming, I see a regular cyclical recession.

What exactly are your credentials? Because I'm reading articles everyday from people with decades of experience in the world of finance who disagree with you. So if you're just another guy off the street saying " I just don't think it'll happen" then it don't mean nothin' to me. Many people in high positions were making silly statements all the way into the Great Depression.

I sure as hell wouldn't base my families safety on anything you have to say. Prepare for the Worst and hope for the Best. Saying 'don't worry, everything will be fine' is dangerous because it may lull someone into not being as prepared as they might otherwise have been.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar

What exactly are your credentials? Because I'm reading articles everyday from people with decades of experience in the world of finance who disagree with you. So if you're just another guy off the street saying " I just don't think it'll happen" then it don't mean nothin' to me.

let's look at all the 'credentialed' and 'MBA' people who led the millions of individuals and 401k managers, along with Fund managers astray with their 'Expertise' and analysis of the 'Lay of the Financial Landscape'....

they---along with most other people were (idioically) wrong before=
so what makes these (idiots) worth our time to listen to...Now??

I suggest that all saying a rebate is bad thing should sign the check then send it to the Bureau of Public Debt. I am also willing to accept donations to my brand new aging chemist retirement fund......

[edit on 1/26/2008 by TheAvenger]

Yet another moronic decision from the Bush corner.

So... the economy is failing... the debt is climbing... and Bush's solution is, hand out money so you can give it to other countries?!?!?

The US is not a production nation. Everything you will be buying with that money will be bought from other countries. Bush is giving the money away to other countries.

If I'm in debt, the last thing I'm going to do is take out another loan so I can mail money to strangers.

He's a freaking idiot!

reply to post by St Udio

they---along with most other people were (idioically) wrong before=

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I know from other posts you've made that you read sources outside yourself for information. My distinction is between educated people with years of experience who tell the Truth and the people of the same education and experience who Lie for Profit and self interest (power). Like Bernanke and Paulson. As far as some guy off the streets opinion................

I find no reason not to be prepared for all possibilities.

reply to post by apc


I am no economist, but where exactly do you find a link between consumer credit and a war? There is none. Only large wars help the economy. The iraq war is a drop in the bucket next to the federal budget. If Bush wanted to "prop" the economy up, he'd have to address the cause of the problem - which he should not do since it's not the federal governments job - or launch a war against at least 3 or 4 more countries at once. Neither is happening, despite everyones hopes.

There is mush to criticize Bush - and his buddies in the democratic Congress - for. This is not one of them. But people love to bash Bush, it makes them feel better.

HimWhoHath:

What exactly are your credentials? Because I'm reading articles everyday from people with decades of experience in the world of finance who disagree with you. So if you're just another guy off the street buying media doom and gloom and saying "oh my god we're all going to die its the end of the world as we know it" then it don't mean nothin' to me. Many people in high positions were making silly statements all the way into the last economic boon.

I sure as hell wouldn't base my families safety on anything you have to say. Realize what reality is and don't freak out like sheeple. Saying 'its an economic disaster omg omg omg' is dangerous because it is crying wolf and when you do it enough no one will wake up when there is actually cause for concern.


[edit on 26-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness

don't freak out like sheeple. Saying 'its an economic disaster omg omg omg' is dangerous because it is crying wolf and when you do it enough no one will wake up when there is actually cause for concern.

I just love how you create this whole thing where I'm 'freaking out'. Fits your little agenda I suppose. Actually I'm very laid back and alot of that has to do with having bases covered. By the time someone like yourself realizes what's going on it's already too late. You call me Sheeple, but you're the one following the cattle herders who run wall street.

And just remember in that story there really was a Wolf after all.

Ya know .
I’m all for the government giving me back my money. But why not drop the economic stimulus pretense? Just give me back my money. If the government can spare these “rebates” and send them back now, why did they take the money in the first place? Forget this temporary candy. Why not make this “rebate” permanent?

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


I just love how you create this whole thing where I'm wrong because I don't fit your preconceived view of the world. Fits your little agenda I suppose. By the time someone like yourself realizes that nothing is going on its too late, you've already wasted your time berating everyone and your money. You call me Sheeple, but you're the one following the cattle herders who run the mass media.

reply to post by LightinDarkness

but you're the one following the cattle herders who run the mass media.

Are you serious? The MSM are standing right next to you in the Herd. They aren't saying anything about OTC Derivatives and the CDS nightmare that is starting to unwind. Or the litigation starting up against these firms. No, they'll trumpet the buyout of CountryWide to rally markets. Like I said, by the time they actually say something it's way too late to get ahead of it. Just like the 'recession' that they still aren't totally sure about.

I'm still listening for a good reason NOT to be prepared..........

The so-called stimulus package really won't do anything. It's just a short-term infusion meant to temporarily buttress the economy until the election. Most people will use it to pay down debt or monthly bills. Even if they use it for other purposes, it will most likely be to consume more and more goods from China - so exactly who's economy will really be helped?

I thought this was a much more interesting and viable long-term solution, a way to really help people caught in the credit/mortgage crunch:

Independence Journal

If a family has $15,000 of credit card debt, and they have been jacked up to 32% interest, they are racking up $4,800 per year of interest to the money changers. If we simply restored the interest deduction for consumer debt, a family in the 25% tax bracket, that write off would shield $4,800 of income, or $1,200 of taxes (if anyone was listening in DC).

Now, look what happens if both the usury cap and deduction of interest were to be implemented: First, the interest on the $15,000 of credit card debt would drop from $4,800 to $1,800 - saving $3,000 top line dollars which would otherwise go to the banksters - and then, 25% of the remaining $1,800, or $450, would be a tax write-off. Total impact on personal budgets: $3,450. Bonus: We bring the banker lobby to heel.

Now, being a rocket surgeon (sic), which do you think would do more to stimulate the economy, and oh yes, keep more people out of bankruptcy and foreclosures? A permanent (plan) which would have an impact of $3,450 on a family's budget, or the mightily hyped "stimulus' package which will impact $800 to $900 or so as a one-time shot?

Like I said, snowballs in hell would have a better chance - as the bankers are crying poor all the time. But, if the nation was pursuing Peoplenomics instead of Bankernomics, or Lobbynomics then a permanent 12% usury limit and permanent deductibility of consumer interest would be the right thing to do. As long as we're at it, let's also throw in a mandate the Fed to "retain purchasing power of the US dollar". Maybe even link it to some outside stand like gold or silver.

[edit on 26/1/08 by kosmicjack]

reply to post by kosmicjack


Well in the example given in your post it will not really benefit somebody with debt.

But what our government is targeting is the low income bracket that hardly pay taxes they are the ones getting the free money (or look like free money) at the expenses of the higher income bracket ones that pays most of the taxes.

reply to post by marg6043


True, it is certainly target to the low-income house-holds. The example at least provides relief across the income spectrum and the relief would probably be more than the average rebate.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
...
My distinction is between educated people with years of experience who tell the Truth and the people of the same education and experience who Lie for Profit and self interest (power). Like Bernanke and Paulson.

Well, Bernanke and Paulson are upper eschelon 'elites'. ->the policy makers

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Are you serious? The MSM are standing right next to you in the doomsday prophet Herd. They have been preaching for weeks of economic disaster and armageddon from all angles and that a depression/recession is coming and its going to be one of the worst ever. Like I said, if people didn't blindly follow the mass media they'd know that being a doomsday prophet may be fun but it isn't accurate. Just like the 'recession' that they have been foaming at the mouth in their happiness talking about.

I'm still listening for a good reason to freak out and join the doomsday crowd.......