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From a skeptics point of view.

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posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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Well sort of,

As many of you already know of me, I am not really a skeptic....more of a," let's look at EVERYTHING else it could be," sort of person, I am open to almost anything after you look at the mundane probabilities too. Part of that reason is due to the fact that I was part of a Navy fighter squadron and have seen many things that are not UFO's but could probably be though of as such.

So, with all the Texas UFO sightings and others around, I am inclined to think testing by our own military, yet the recent explanation in the Ft. Worth area seems week to say the least. There are a variety of reasons that the military could and would keep a project secret, and maybe even leak out some incorrect info on that project in order to decoy the actual project. Point is, we have the ability to create sci fi stuff too.

My question to you is what and why do you think it's a UFO (by that I mean alien?) yes it is unidentified at the moment to us, but think of the location of the sighting!1 It is nearly smack dab on top of a Lockheed Martin plant..doesn't that seem awfully convenient to you?? Maybe it was a training exercise, maybe not.....maybe it is something that we are just not supposed to see yet...sort of like a concept car????

If you see something that you cannot wrap your brain around, does that mean aliens??? I sincerely hope not, I hope that fuels us to try to understand what it could be, to maybe even smile and say, "Wow, what are our guys creating now, because that was far out."

Just my thoughts, it could be anything but let's crawl before we walk here people and not make quantum jumps to what we have no idea about....YET, anyway!


Peace, love to hear your views since I do not know what it is either , right
Mondo




posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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I think the main problem between the neverending battle between 'skeptics' and 'believers' is that both sides are starting from very different viewpoints before arriving at any conclusions regarding any given UFO situation.

Let me explain.

A skeptic starts from the viewpoint of : Speed of light limits how far we can travel. Distances in space are vast. Therefore it is very highly unlikely that anything seen by an observer here on earth is going to be an alien spacecraft, since there is no way they could be visiting us. The skeptic will therefore look at every possible different explanation, regardless of how strange, the sighting was, and how numerous and certain were the observers.

Before I continue I should point out that I'm using the terms 'skeptic' and 'believers' in the sense of those who are pre-disposed to either dismiss the idea of UFOs as aliens, or accept the possibility of UFOs as aliens (in the case of skeptics, for the reasons stated above)

It is, of course, entirely possible to have either viewpoint and still be a 'skeptic'. For example... you might be sympathetic to the idea of UFOs as alien, but still dismiss a particular sighting after looking at the facts and deciding that it is a misident, fake, or identified.

To continue.

I tend to fall into the camp of the 'believers' , although I try to remain critical and (dare I say) skeptical about each individual sighting until it has (or hasn't) been adequately investigated and the facts of the sighting can help me make a judgement. I do however approach the subject of UFOs with a pre-disposition towards alien civilizations visiting us now, and having done so throughtout history and pre-history.

I believe that the limitation placed on travel by the speed of light, is only a limitation at our PRESENT stage of development, and that sooner or later we will find a way around it. From there it follows that, taking the age of the universe into account, it is highly likely that other civilisations will have managed to get around that limit, maybe even millions of years ago. As soon as y7ou accept that proposition as not only possible, but likely, the skepticism and disbelief with which some approach the whole 'UFOs as alien' idea becomes less of an obstruction. BY that I mean, if you accept the possibility that aliens may be travelling to our planet then a UFO being an alien spaceship becomes just one of a number of possibilities to consider.

Since I think most 'believers' take a sinilar viewpoint to mine, you therefore have two sides who are approaching the same 'investigation' with two totally different sets of rules. ie: A skeptic will look at a sighting and think 'anything but an alien ship', and a believer will think 'it might possibly be an alien ship'

It becomes very difficult to discuss/argue the merits of a case when each side is playing by totally different ground rules... lol

Just my humble opinion though


[edit on 24-1-2008 by Dagar]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Mondogiwa
So, with all the Texas UFO sightings and others around, I am inclined to think testing by our own military, yet the recent explanation in the Ft. Worth area seems week to say the least. There are a variety of reasons that the military could and would keep a project secret, and maybe even leak out some incorrect info on that project in order to decoy the actual project.[...]

My question to you is what and why do you think it's a UFO (by that I mean alien?) yes it is unidentified at the moment to us, but think of the location of the sighting!1 It is nearly smack dab on top of a Lockheed Martin plant..doesn't that seem awfully convenient to you?? Maybe it was a training exercise, maybe not.....maybe it is something that we are just not supposed to see yet...sort of like a concept car????


No one should jump to any conclusions. 'Believers' should not jump to conclusions that when they see a UFO it automatically means it's alien, the same way that 'skeptics' should not jump to conclusions that it wasn't.

I consider myself a 'believer' in the sense that I believe that intelligent extra-terrestrial life is and has been visiting Earth, but I have seen a UFO for myself and it didn't change the way I address this matter - from a critical thinking and scientific reasoning perspective.

In regards to this Texas sighting and your hypothesis that it could be one of ours I respect it, it's a valid opinion but the actions of the military and the amount of exposure this vehicle was subjected to, makes me think otherwise. I'm not saying this automatically means it was alien, but here's my take on it:

If this was one of ours, and like you said maybe it is something that we are just not supposed to see yet, don't you think the military or whatever corporation(s) are behind this, would find a way or have places to test these things in secret, or at least in more deserted areas?

Does it make sense of this being a concept/test vehicle and flying it so near populated areas where everyone can see it?

And then of course, you have the Air Force changing their story.. again! If this was programmed, if they had intended for this to happen, one would think the Military/Air Force would have a more solid or at least definitive cover story.

This of course is just my reasoning of this incident and I'm the first to admit that even though I'm inclined to think that this wasn't one of ours, doesn't mean that it wasn't.



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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I think most skeptics don't even search for evidence or look into declassified documents.
It's just for them to proove someone else wrong. That's more important to them
True skeptics are objective, and investigate with an open mind instead of saying NO anyway.
They should be at least open to the idea that black projects could have technology that is unbelievable to a traditional propulsion point of view.
They should ask the question why government/military denies mass sightings or come up with ridiculous explanations.

The other hand. There are also a lot of 'believers' that think that all sightings, pictures, movies are real alien spacecraft. This is subjective too. Those people can easily be fooled by staged sightings or mass media covering the subject.

Believers also should also consider:
Black projects
Secret space programs
False flag Alien invasion
Hoaxes
Computer graphics
Satelite hologram technology

I'm convinced our friends from the stars are out there.
But i'm also convinced that black projects have technologies that will blow anyones mind. I'm also convinced Carol Rosin has a true message where we all should listen to.
If people don't believe the terror excuse anymore, i'm sure the controllers of this world could stage a false alien threat to unite human kind into a new world order.

So be open minded but think clearly. For both camps.





[edit on 24-1-2008 by abovetech]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Dagar
..
A skeptic starts from the viewpoint of : Speed of light limits how far we can travel. Distances in space are vast. Therefore it is very highly unlikely that anything seen by an observer here on earth is going to be an alien spacecraft, since there is no way they could be visiting us. ...


Just be be perfectly clear on the matter, theoretical maximum speed achievable is that of light. But, that actually does not limit the distances one can travel. Travelling near the speed of light, only for a few months, *will* theoretically allow you to visit nearby stars, such a Zeta Reticuli (39 light years away).

Wait, wtf is this crackpot talking about, how can I travel 39 light years @ light speed in a few months?

Although 39 earth years have passed, your time (you the traveller) have been travelling at say, .999 the speed of light and therefore your time is different.

So this means that it is feasible with today's physics, and this obeys todays laws...except the logistics of managing such missions (from either earth, or Zeta) would be problematic!

So if you're gonna travel using this mechanism, well, bring your fellow humans or greys aboard!

Notice I say "this mechanism" because there are discussions concerning different methods of reaching far away places..

-Ignore special relativity
-Get light to go faster
-Give up causality
-Give up (absolute) relativity
-Go somewhere where the speed of light is not the limit
-Distort the space-time fabric

Check out FTL on wikipedia for a good intro



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by senshido
 


Apologies... I should have added reasonably and in a practical manner to the bit about the limits of lightspeed.

I really meant a practical usable aternative, one that would not entail you getting to your destination long after everyone who built your ship is long dead...


Out of those in your list I think these two are probably favourite for future interstellar travel

-Go somewhere where the speed of light is not the limit
-Distort the space-time fabric

Mind you, the future has a funny habit of springing surprises on one, so I would not be surprised to see a totally as-yett-unthought-of solution to the problem suddenly appearing.

Anyway, whatever we come out with it's a good bet that someone somewhere in the universe though about it earlier



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