Abraham Lincoln was killed by Rome

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by pavlovsdog

 

Part of my discussion is about rome. I guess you would have been more interested if it was the davinci code.

Here's a hint. If I were not interested in a subject I wouldnt post here.

Are you now a mind reader? You seem to be able to suggest what I would be interested in and what I'm not. Have you ever seen me reference the Divinci Code or ANY of the topics covered in that work of FICTION anywhere? Ever seen me post in a Divinci code consipracy thead?
Obviously you can now read minds.

Lets leave the Fiction out of this thread.

reply to post by pavlovsdog


Fine.
You still haven't said what ties Charlotte wells to Chiniquy.???

The inquisition reached all the way onto the american continent,

"THE INQUISITION IN THE NEW WORLD : ESTABLISHMENT OF THE HOLY OFFICE IN THE NEW WORLD
According to Liebman, as early as 1508, bishops in Havana and Puerto Rico informed Madrid that the New World was being filled with hebreo cristianos (Hebrew Christians), nuevo cristianos (New Christians), conversos (converts), Moriscos (Moors), and other heretics, in spite of several decrees barring their entry. Silvio Zavala wrote: "The Holy Office in Spanish America persecuted the apostates, Moriscos, Jews, Protestants and, in general, heretics. It manifested in America the same intransigency that had characterized the religious life of the Peninsula since the beginning of the modern period." Due to the shortage of secular clergy in the New World, the pope issued the Bull Omnimoda in 1522, and granted special permission to the prelates of the monastic orders in the New World to perform, in the absence of bishops in the vicinity, all Episcopal functions except ordination. Torquemada's organizational and administrative abilities, and his zeal for the preservation of the faith set the course of the Spanish Inquisition for the 341 years of its existence. As the activities of the Holy Office expanded, it became necessary to establish branches throughout Spain and the New World with the Suprema as the head office. The need of a tribunal of the Holy Office in Mexico was expressed as early as 1532. In fact, the first auto de fé in Mexico was held in October 1528, with Fray Vicente de Santa Maria presiding. Two Jews were burned at the stake, and two others were reconciled. On January 25, 1569, Philip II decreed the establishment of the first two formal Dominican tribunals in the New World, one for New Spain (Mexico) and one for Peru. They were known by the full title of "El Tribunal del Santo Oficio de la Inquisición". The Mexican branch included all of the audiencias of Mexico, Guatemala, New Galicia, and the Philippines. The tribunal at Cartagena was not established until 1610. Prior to that all prisoners south of New Spain were sent to Lima, Peru, for trial. The Cartagena tribunal had jurisdiction over a vast area, including the bishopries of Cartagena, Panama, Santa Marta, Puerto Rico, Popayan, Venezuela, and Santiago de Cuba. There were many Jews in Cartagena and its vicinity, and they were quite visible; but according to Seymour B. Liebman, the Holy Office was more involved in disputes among the inquisitors than in persecuting heretics and Jews. The sixty-three procesos of Jews before the tribunal in Cartagena indicate that all were born in Portugal; nine of them were tortured and only one was sentenced to serve in the galleys sailing between Puerto Bello and Spain. Even though the Holy Office was established in Portugal in 1536, there never was a tribunal in Portuguese Brazil. Brazilian prisoners were tried in Portugal. Each viceroyalty was expected to give the tribunals of the Holy Office complete cooperation. The tribunals were autonomous institutions independent of secular authority. The Holy Office was free of the control of the King."

I'll be back in a minute, maybe...

O.K., It reached into mexico

"They were known by the full title of "El Tribunal del Santo Oficio de la Inquisición". The Mexican branch included all of the audiencias of Mexico, Guatemala, New Galicia, and the Philippines."
Now, this was just one of the concerns of Early America.




[edit on 25-1-2008 by Clearskies]

OK, this last post establishes that the Spanish Church was present in the New World as early as 1508. No news here. However you did not cite you huge wall of quotation. Please when you copy and paste from a webpage - cite your work, so we know it's not coming from a work of fiction.

Particularly in light that you are the OP, it might be nice if you could try to use perhaps some of your own words after the end of this massive 'wall o'text' to let the gentle reader know exactly how this ties into your original topic. It seems you swing wildly around in your method of 'debate' - doing google searches, reading links from original pages and finding something that sounds 'neat' so then you copy and paste it. It may be going with your train of thought however its really jumping around quite alot.

It alot like a child, blindfolded and wildly swinging a stick at a pinata.

The three books that you used as resources for your assertion of a Vatican involvement in the assassination are all based on the work of Chiniquy (actually, one is the work of Chiniquy).

Without the support of Chiniquy, they all fall apart (that's a bit of hyperbole, they fall apart on their own merit being a collection of polemicist screeds).

I know that you would prefer to believe that the Vatican is behind everything that is or has been wrong in the world, but it would help your arguments if you used better material.

Here is some information on Chiniquy from a neutral source (Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society, February 1976):

www.geocities.com...

The man was a fraud and a liar. I know that it is easier to believe that he is giving you insight into the Church because you already dislike Catholicism, but please use some critical analysis when you are doing your research.

Eric

This thread is all over the place. The original post was about the Vatican's purported involvement in the assassination of Lincoln.

Can we stick with that? If you want to go into all the regular anti-Catholic canards, please create a thread for each.

Charlotte Wells (aka Charlotte Keckler) was never a Catholic nun. Her testimony and the testimony of others of her ilk (Maria Monk and Alberto Rivera for example) are laughable.

These are not serious works like that of Hislop. They are sad attempts to sway the uneducated and those that want to be swayed. Hislop's works were scholarly and well researched, but ultimately faulty and a product of their times. They deserve a reasoned, logical refutation and discussion.

Chiniquy and Wells and their ilk are a joke and they are beneath you.


Eric

States had right for self-determination. Lincoln illegally centralized federal power in war. He was the first one who should be blamed for creating Empire [from USA].

Originally posted by Clearskies
Chiniquy was a former priest who had been converted to protestantism after
reading the bible.

50 years in the church of rome

What kind of priest was he when he didn't read Bible? Or I wrong understand it?

Well, thank you for a post without an insult.

Here is what the Roman Catholic Observer has to say about how to be saved; Let me assure you that this is a long standing dogma of the church, but, this is a summary;


1 Confess your sins to a Roman Catholic priest.
2 "Receive" all appropriate Roman Catholic sacraments.
3 Believe that Grace comes only via Rome's sacraments, and only through Mary.
4 Buy or earn as many indulgences as possible so as to avoid Purgatory.
5 Believe that Grace can only be distributed to you by Mary.
6 Attend the Roman Catholic Mass on all Sundays and holy days.
7 Obey all of Rome's rules (i.e., precepts of the Church).
8 Be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.
9 Submit yourself to Pope John Paul II.

If these are the guidelines for salvation, then, many are going to hell and aren't following them.
I got saved by reading the bible.


I didn't notice till later that the RCO was not an official site for the vatican.

Maybe EricD can clarify what EXACTLY is salvation according to the church.
????






[edit on 26-1-2008 by Clearskies]

oh no.....

please tell us how your last post has anything to do with the Church assassinating Lincoln.

Because if you cant pull the two together, it really really seems like you are just grinding an axe against Catholicism with this last post.

reply to post by pavlovsdog


I was trying to answer Vojvoda.

He asked how a priest was saved by reading the bible.
If, the RCC has a different set of rules than faith in Jesus and his forgiveness and death, then, being born again takes reading the bible to know the difference.

Originally posted by Clearskies


If these are the guidelines for salvation, then, many are going to hell and aren't following them.
I got saved by reading the bible

Is it part of your duty now to determine who will enter the gates of heaven and who shall be denied?

Originally posted by Clearskies
He asked how a priest was saved by reading the bible.
If, the RCC has a different set of rules than faith in Jesus and his forgiveness and death, then, being born again takes reading the bible to know the difference.

If a Catholic attends each Mass through out the year, He will have read the entire Bible from cover to cover.

reply to post by pavlovsdog


No, but, do you know the guidelines set forth in SCRIPTURE?
Do they differ from the roman catholic church at vatican ll or the council of Trent?

I am only responding to this as there may have been an impression that I was insulting Clearskies.

If I left that impression in my replies, I apologize . It was not my intent to insult anyone but the authors of the sources quoted. If I was too snarky in my replies, please chalk it up to frustration.

I'm not going to post on this thread any longer unless it is about the assassination of Lincoln. I will, however, be happy to discuss the Church's position on salvation in a different thread if that is made the topic.

Before I sign off here, let me say that the listing above that is attributed to the Catholic Observer is completely wrong.

Eric

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by pavlovsdog

 

Is it part of your duty now to determine who will enter the gates of heaven and who shall be denied?

No,

but, do you know the guidelines set forth in SCRIPTURE?
Do they differ from the roman catholic church at vatican ll or the council of Trent?

It's that 'BUT' that ruins it! You shoulda stopped right there.but then couldnt resist stammering back about how you are right and implying that thier souls are in danger.

Leave them alone. You obviously dont understand thier belief system. Just because something is in contrast to what YOU believe does not automatically make it wrong.

Text WhiteI have also read the book wtitten by former priest Charles Chiniquy. I am agreeing that the church of rome/ Roman catholic church was the one responsible in killing the former president AMBRAHAM LINCOLN. Yes, it is true that the of rome will not stop unless all the counties in the world will be under its soveriegn.
for those CAtholics who would refute this statement of facts, to those who are lovers of the false religion, to those who would choose tom defend the church they never know, to those who would rather die for the church of rome than the church of God I would like to strongly tell you that your beloved ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH is the murder of this world that has never been punished.
This is not just a supported document iof only one person that has been in the church of rome but of many who have suffered the usurpatios under the approval of the INFALLIBLE PAPACY. I would like to refute that even the ex- jesuit Priest ALERTO RIVERA supported this facts. He said that the church of rome under the banner of the Jesuit Priests had killed thousanda of innocent victims without respecting the sense of justice of the soveriegn of the people.
The church of rome has damaged the world woth so much hate that we are in times of difficulty as written in the word of God. This harlot of BABYLON had subdued kingdom with its quest to rule the world as the supreme power above the governments of this world.
The Roman catholic church is a government of greed , not a vehicle to the salvation of humankind as design by god for his church..
This harlot wants to rule the world with an iron fist!!
Now I would like to ask the roman catholics if this is the kind of church the Lord Jesus christ wants to rule His people? Is this the kind of church YOU WANT TO HAVE????THIS ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS MADE THIS WORLD AN EARTHLY HELL!!!!

I AM ANGELO E.M., 17 YEARS OLD, SCHOOLED IN THE CHURCH OF ROME'S SCHOOL. I AM SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB. I AM SAVED BY GRACE AND NOT BY ANY OTHER MEANS.i am heaven bound.