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Originally posted by NewWorldOver
Christian fundamentalism and the scientific elitist society never fail to disappoint me in their arrogance.
There is only one force behind creation and we are simply creatures arguing about it. Our arrogance completely belies that.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
scientific elitist society?
science isn't elitist...
that statement is quite arrogant...
see, you have no way of proving that "there is only one force behind creation"
hell, you can't even prove that this universe is a creation to begin with.
Originally posted by ppkjjkpp
For the little time I've been on ATS, I have noticed two reoccuring arguments against creation which are that Christians are forcing their beliefs on everybody and that most scientists believe in evolution so it must be right.
The truth is that Christians are not forcing their beliefs on anyone. Christians share their faith with people and then people can choose if they want to believe it or not. It's not like Christians are putting a gun to your head and making you believe it. People choose. Besides, people including Christians can say whatever they want. It's called freedom of speech and democracy. If creation was taught in schools before evolution then evolutionists must have forced their 'science' on the majority of people who happen to be Christians. So what's wrong with the majority of Americans trying to bring back creation to the majority?
So if 15% of the population doesn't accept creation and God, that's fine, but they are the minority and should not rule the media and schools as they already are.
I mean, in America, if the majority wants creation then creation should be the way to go. Even if all the scientists in America believe evolution, that is still the minority of Americans. You could call Americans ignorant because of this but it doesn't really matter because the 'ignorant' people are still the majority.
First of all you must dispel from your minds all uncertainty about evolution. Your scientists who have elaborated theories of evolution are not completely wrong in saying that humanity is descended from the monkey and the monkey from the fish and so on. In truth, the first living organism created on Earth was unicellular, which then gave rise to more complex life forms.
But this did not happen by chance! When we came to Earth to create life, we started by making very simple creations and then improved our techniques of environmental adaptation. This enabled us to make in turn fish, amphibians, mammals, birds, primates and finally man himself, who is just an improved model of the monkey to which we added what makes use essentially human.
In this way, we made human beings in our image, as it is written in the Bible in Genesis. You could have realized for yourselves that there is little chance of a series of accidents producing such variety of life forms - the colors of birds and their elaborate mating rituals, or the shape of antelope horns.
What natural need could lead antelopes or wild goats to develop curled horns? Or birds to have blue or red feathers? And what about exotic fish?
All that is the work of our artists. Do not forget the artists when you create life. Imagine a world without them - no music, films, paintings or sculptures ... Life would be very boring and animals very ugly if their bodies corresponded only to their needs and functions.
Evolution of the various forms of life on Earth is really the evolution of techniques of creation and the increased sophistication of the creators' work. ....
Originally posted by thebeard
Now things like evolution and the big bang (in my school anyway) were taught as a theory or "this could be how it worked based on the information we have so far". It was never said, "this is exactly how it happened".
Now forgive me, I don't really know too much about the creationism stance, but it seems to be a religious idea, not a scientific theory.
The truth is that Christians are not forcing their beliefs on anyone.
If creation was taught in schools before evolution then evolutionists must have forced their 'science' on the majority of people who happen to be Christians. So what's wrong with the majority of Americans trying to bring back creation to the majority?
Originally posted by NewWorldOver
It has it's base in religious texts, taken quite literally (like Genesis) but as I see it, many spiritualists and progressive religious people have assimilated creationism as a metaphor for evolution. Still, some take it literally, and are incapable of considering it a theory, but instead the absolute word of God etc.
So, I still think evolution and creationism are theories that can coincide, and that literalists, on both the scientific and religious side, have seperated the theories like oil and water due to their own hatred of one another. Science can prove evolution, creationism can include evolution, therefore religion and science can still meet on even grounds. The people do not want this, though.
Originally posted by CaptainG0705
okay, you are all kinds of wrong.
firstly, it is well documented that the founding fathers were, in fact, at best... agnostic. AT BEST. also, since we're dealing with the success of our nation being founded on christianity.. then why is it that our founding fathers clearly stated in the Treaty of Paris that they wanted religion to have nothing to do with government.
secondly, science has given us substantial evidence for evolution. in fact, it has been proven that our 23rd pair of chromosomes is a result of a molding of a 24th pair that is seen in chimpanzees. godbegone.blogspot.com...
watch the video.
third, christians do, in fact, force their beliefs on millions of americans on a daily basis. these americans happen to be children. yes, children are taken to church every week without a choice. they are brought up christian. they do not choose to be christian. it would seem to me, and i'm sure many other logical people like myself, that if these children were taken to temple or mosque instead, they would have a different set of beliefs. this is why we would rarely see a christian child in an islamic country.
fourth, stating that christianity does not force its views upon people, then claiming that science does by having evolution taught in schools is quite a poor claim, indeed. tell me why you believe that science having evolution taught is forcing a view rather than presenting another side to the argument. i suppose that is quite the key difference between religion and science... science is open to revision.
fifth, what evidence do you have for any of the beliefs shared by christianity? the fact of the matter is simple. nobody has any evidence, period. i could probably type for days on end as to why religion is nothing more than a blind faith. in fact, i will go as far as to say that religion exists for, among others, 2 major reasons. the first is that people are afraid of being alone. by this i mean that there is no answer to death, and people are petrified of the nothingness that ensues. the second is that every claim made by religion, seemingly particularly in christianity in america, is explained in a deus ex machina manner. how convenient!!!
Perhaps it is best that theologians and theists stick to their subject matter. I don't know why it is acceptable in their eyes that a theologian or theist may refute the work of a scientist, and the scientist would have no business disproving religion
I understand why people choose to be religious, assuming they aren't brainwashed as children into being a member of any certain religion. It is because they are afraid, and it provides comfort. At least, that is my humble opinion. In my quest for existential truth, I have gone back and forth on these matters, and I currently am an atheist. I use currently because, like any logical human being would, I am leaving the subject open to revision. I repeat: It is possible that I am wrong, but I side with Dawkins.
Originally posted by melatonin
Originally posted by ppkjjkpp
We have not observed any of that. good try though.
It is full of observations. Data which has been used to test the predictions made from the theory of evolution.
That is how science works.
Go back to your original quote:
principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses
Collection of data through observation - check
Formulation and testing of hypotheses - check
Then you might read this from the pages I linked earlier. Read and learn. You don't get to determine what science is. Sorry about that.
[edit on 24-1-2008 by melatonin]
Originally posted by gekko
reply to post by ppkjjkpp
Isn't evolution just a long string of micro-evolutions put together? How can you believe one is proven and not the other?
It's like saying: "I believe your words, but not the sentences they make."