"High-Level" Masons? Doesn't appear to be.

reply to post by JoshNorton


josh norton, read my post, i edited it and added a picture that completley conflicts with what you just said. . . and i was showing the 9 pointed star to show that masons will do that with the star. . .and your not really refuting anything of masons, only my lack of evidence. . .but you did not explain my pictures one bit. All your really doing is mocking me, instead of trying to see where im coming from....its very obvious. i showed the 9 pointed star to show that masons will flip the triangles around, as on the dollar bill, and with the 9 pointed star, which is really just 3 angled triangles....help me out here,instead of just mocking me. . . .

Originally posted by santjime
But also, So no one is really sure if serpents appear in any other lodges. . .but the 33 degree temple is stunningly dressed in beautiful artwork of the serpent?

As I mentioned previously, the serpent is the ancient oriental symbol of wisdom. In Roman mythology, the owl is sacred to Minerva, Goddess of Wisdom.

Since the goal of the Scottish Rite of Masonry is to perpetuate wisdom, it is not strange to see the symbols of wisdom decorating our temples.

Originally posted by santjime
reply to post by JoshNorton

 

josh norton, read my post, i edited it and added a picture that completley conflicts with what you just said. . . and i was showing the 9 pointed star to show that masons will do that with the star. . ....help me out here,instead of just mocking me. . . .[

What you are referring to as the nine pointed star is called, in the Scottish Rite ceremonies, the "interlaced triple triangle". It is a trinitarian symbol of the Deity.

Originally posted by santjime
AND HERE WE SEE THE SERPENT AND THE OWL AT BOTH HANDS OF THE SUPREME MASON (IM NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT THE MASONIC SYMBOL IS...ANY ONE CAN HELP ME WITH THAT?) BUT TO BE AT BOTH HANDS SHOWS THAT THESE TWO FIGURES HOLD GREAT SIGNIFICANCE WITH THE 33RD SUPREME

Um, no. As Masonic Light pointed out, the serpent is an ancient symbol of wisdom. Actually, so is the owl. But neither are Masonic symbols. Just because they're used in decoration doesn't mean they HOLD GREAT SIGNIFICANCE.

reply to post by Masonic Light


yes but the most popular masonic symbol of wisdom is the snake biting its tail, and the other member posted that owls have nothing to do with freemason, when this is so clearly untrue. . ..you continue to defend something with a few statements, im looking for explanations, and you never said anything about the dollar bill except that they are 60 degree angles?? lol....honestly it doesnt even seem like you TRUELY believe the statements that yall are defending. . .it seems as if your just defending it for the sake of defending...maybe ive gone to far, but it really doesnt seem that way. And masons do not decorate for the sake of decoration. . .me and you both know this...and the fact that the owl and serpent are at both hands of freemasonry says alot. you can choose to mock my words, but we both know where im coming from.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Thanks, I was only looking at the outline and seeing a nonagram, but hadn't noticed that they weren't connected, but interlaced. Yes. You're correct. (I just glanced through the 3rd Edition Scottish Rite monitor that I got in the mail this morning. Saw the symbol, but haven't found the explanation yet... I'll see if I can dig it up.)

Edit: found it.

The triple interlaced triangle represents the Divine Light, the Divine Wisdom, and the Divine Word. The Divine Light manifests itself in the human mind as the intellect; the human spirit is itself a ray of the Divine Light, indestructible and immortal.

Still not sure what it's doing posted in this thread though, or what it has to do with the topic at hand...

Originally posted by santjime
yes but the most popular masonic symbol of wisdom is the snake biting its tail, and the other member posted that owls have nothing to do with freemason, when this is so clearly untrue. . ..

How is it "clearly untrue"?

Do you have a ritual book that lists the owl? Which lecture is it mentioned in? Yes, the Ouroboros is a symbol that has been used for more than 4000 years. Are you saying Masonry is that old? Or would you admit that it's a symbol that's not exclusively Masonic?

Originally posted by santjime
And masons do not decorate for the sake of decoration.

Why can't they? If you put flowered wallpaper in your kitchen, does that mean you worship flowers?

Originally posted by santjime
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

the evidence all adds up to what yall claim a mere coincedence..

You either misunderstand us or misunderstand coincidence. A coincidence would be that the modern conspiracy theorist and Robison independently came to the same conclusion, which is not my claim. My claim is that the modern conspiracy theorist develops upon Robison or some derivative work, unconcerned that it's absolutely false.

and yes maybe every conspirator may not have EXACT FACTS, with people to cite every claim

That's fine, but conspiracy theorists have yet to retract the patently false.

hell its supposed to be a royal secret of some sort

Actually, Robison claimed the exact opposite: that the Illuminati-Masonic bogeyman was out to get the monarchy and puppeteering revolutions in Europe. It was a more convenient excuse for a monarchist than "the monarchs are terrible people doing terrible things".

so if true conspirators could cite every claim and back up every claim with pure fact then that would show some flaw in the elites agenda, and that wouldnt make sense either.

Once again, no one's asking for perfection. Just have the integrity to back away from a claim when it's been proven false.

but as for the dollar bill, would you go the extra mile and claim that this as well is just ANOTHER mere coincedence???? I would find this TRUELY almost IMPOSSIBLY hard to believe

The eye-and-triangle motif appears far more in Christianity than in Masonry (where each is usually separate). Do you find it impossibly hard to believe that that's a coincidence, and point to a Christian takeover of America?

But also, So no one is really sure if serpents appear in any other lodges. . .but the 33 degree temple is stunningly dressed in beautiful artwork of the serpent?

The architect of the House of the Temple (a non-Mason) was open about the Egyptian inspiration for the building's style. Though I believe some Egyptology comes into play in the Scottish Rite, a lot of the House of the Temple's Egyptian flourishes were brought in from outside the fraternity.

Originally posted by santjime
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

yes but the most popular masonic symbol of wisdom is the snake biting its tail,

Wrong. The most popular Masonic symbol of wisdom is the Holy Bible.

and the other member posted that owls have nothing to do with freemason, when this is so clearly untrue. . ..

Because you found one owl in one place?

you continue to defend something with a few statements, im looking for explanations, and you never said anything about the dollar bill except that they are 60 degree angles??

What he meant was that several of the angles in the supposed Masonic geometry are severely skewed to show what might not be there. As another example, look at the right side of the pyramid on the supposed "MASON" star; you'll notice that the line strays significantly from the pyramid, whereas on the other side it follows it exactly. In other words, whoever found the word "MASON" had to significantly alter the shape of the star to do so.

lol....honestly it doesnt even seem like you TRUELY believe the statements that yall are defending. . .it seems as if your just defending it for the sake of defending...

Care to guess how I feel about my wife from a few anonymous posts, too?

And masons do not decorate for the sake of decoration. . .me and you both know this...

You mean a fraternity devoted to perpetuating wisdom might have incorporated a few symbols thereof into the design of its most expensive building? Stop the presses.

and the fact that the owl and serpent are at both hands of freemasonry says alot.

It would say more if anyone knew what a "hand of Freemasonry" was.

you can choose to mock my words, but we both know where im coming from.

Yes, I do. You're hoping to find something, and whether it's there or not doesn't seem to be of much concern. (See? I can judge motives with a dearth of evidence too.)

reply to post by santjime

Where in Freemasonry is the self consuming snake or owl used?

The great seal used on the dollar bill is not a Masonic invention. The final committee had no Masons on it. Ben Franklin was the only Mason to sit on the first committee, and he had different designs in mind that were not used.

reply to post by KSigMason


Im a bit busy right now writing a term paper, as im very young, but this is in response to KSigMason about the serpent and owl...here is a grandlodge website that has more information on it, but clearly states about the selfconsuming snake. . freemasonry.bcy.ca...

here is a picture of art work decorated in the 33 degree temple, if some people choose to compare artwork in the temple to artwork in someones house (aka kitchen wall paper), thats cool. i disagree with your idea but w.e.
You will notice the freemason symbol but its a bit different then the usual freemason symbol, because it has to do with the 33 degree, now we can assume that the people who designed that symbol (the symbol i am about to post again) took time and precision when deciding what it should look like, then youll notice that there is a serpent at one side and a owl on the other and then two horses ( i would assume guardian type things? but im sure some of yall know the proper name for those creatures and the reason for being there) idolizing the symbol. there are not two bibles on each side representing wisdom, but a serpent and owl. . . that is also not the only place in the temple were serpents of the sort are decorated. . .and to even compare wall flowers on your kitchen to any masonic symbol designed in the most prestigious masonic building in America is just blasphemy. . . You know they took much time and were very carefull when deciding what to put in that temple. . .Im showing this once again because KSigMason wanted to know where masons represent owls and serpents, and i agree that is a good question, so in a society that keeps no secrets from any of its members, why would they only have this symbol in this temple? And as for the seal, if you get a ruler, you too can recreate the two pyramids on the dollar bill that spell out MASON . . .we both know this isnt some fabriacted myth, but is in fact ACTUALLY there. . . im just saying its not what your portraying it to be, or maybe we jjust arent clearly reading eachother correctly.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67525f805da1.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Volund


This is a bit random but in response to something Volfund had said earlier

Not all men get 32nd degree over a weekend or 2. Some, like myself, go through it over several months. There isn't a magic masonic wand that will wave and make you instantly 32nd degree that I am aware of.

I am not sure exactly where it is, but when i find it ill post it, i was reading post from Appak RIP. . .
but he was stating how it took him 3 months to become Master Mason,(he also stated they changed the rules so you dont even have to do the month by month thing) but then took a 6 hour course and jumped through 4-32 degree ( beause they changed the rules, but this must have been years back). . .so if were gonna be SUPER FACTUAL with our comments, im shedding the light that their is a little contradiction with what you have said. . .it didnt even take him a weekend, just 1/4 of his day. .

Originally posted by santjime
reply to post by KSigMason

 

You will notice the freemason symbol but its a bit different then the usual freemason symbol, because it has to do with the 33 degree

Actually, that symbol is of the 18th degree.

now we can assume that the people who designed that symbol (the symbol i am about to post again) took time and precision when deciding what it should look like

That's a fair assumption. As has been mentioned, though, it is incorrect to assume they are all Masons.

then youll notice that there is a serpent at one side and a owl on the other and then two horses ( i would assume guardian type things? but im sure some of yall know the proper name for those creatures and the reason for being there) idolizing the symbol.

I don't see idolatry there.

there are not two bibles on each side representing wisdom, but a serpent and owl. . .

I'm assuming this is in regards to my correction that the Holy Bible is the symbol of wisdom throughout Masonry. This photo, and your interpretation thereof, does not disprove that assertion. It's one instance, in one place, for one group composed of (generously) 5% of Masonry worldwide, and has no authority over it.

that is also not the only place in the temple were serpents of the sort are decorated. . .and to even compare wall flowers on your kitchen to any masonic symbol designed in the most prestigious masonic building in America is just blasphemy. . .

First, you're assuming the House of the Temple is "the most prestigious Masonic building in America". The 52 Grand Lodges in the United States would point to the George Washington National Masonic Memorial for that distinction.

Second, why is it "blasphemy"? They're both stylistic decisions that have no bearing over what actually goes on inside the walls (unless you'd care to introduce evidence otherwise, which you've yet to do).

You know they took much time and were very carefull when deciding what to put in that temple. . .Im showing this once again because KSigMason wanted to know where masons represent owls and serpents, and i agree that is a good question, so in a society that keeps no secrets from any of its members, why would they only have this symbol in this temple?

Because they were of significance to the Egyptians, a theme the (non-Masonic) architect ran with. We've been through this.

Also, the idea that that's the "only" symbol in the building is ludicrous.

And as for the seal, if you get a ruler, you too can recreate the two pyramids on the dollar bill that spell out MASON . . .we both know this isnt some fabriacted myth, but is in fact ACTUALLY there. . .

Yeah, if you're willing to severely distort the shape of the image to squeeze it in there. The right side of the inverted triangle is longer than the left. Get the ruler if you want.

Originally posted by santjime
reply to post by Volund

 

he was stating how it took him 3 months to become Master Mason,(he also stated they changed the rules so you dont even have to do the month by month thing) but then took a 6 hour course and jumped through 4-32 degree ( beause they changed the rules, but this must have been years back). . .so if were gonna be SUPER FACTUAL with our comments, im shedding the light that their is a little contradiction with what you have said. . .

Or different Valleys in (possibly) different jurisdictions do different things. For someone who rails about our supposed closed-mindedness, you seem fairly resistant to the idea that things might be a little flexible.

reply to post by santjime


As promised,Chapter 6 (which I mistakenly called 8) of Is It True...?