Originally posted by seawolf197

I have a question though. If he is who he says he is, and his story about boot camp is true, (which, if true would really mess a young man up.), is there room for forgiveness here?

A better question is why would you believe an admitted liar and propagandist when he immediately upon release starts doing the same thing? That kind of trust is dangerous. I'm pissed at our Government right now but that does not mean I would accept a propaganda story like this from this person. That would be pretty foolish and could lead to something really bad.

His release would be picked up by the media and we will know shortly if this is the real deal or some joker.

Yeah and you need better testimony than a convicted felon to base the assumptions on anyhow.

There are muslim soldiers in the US forces and they're just folks like everyone else. This is SO a beatup by the fraudster involved. Unfortunately he can now shield himself with tinfoil from any further opprobrium.

the army is the stupidest thing you could join, to fight for a cause that you do not understand is purely stupid, but if you want to die for the guys in the suits, then you are weak and dont deserve life,

it seems that the army is much more effective than i had thought, their methods are good and productive, being able to brainwash soldiers to the point of killing innocents, purely genius (btw im not being sarcastic as it would seem)

After reading more posts, one thing is clear, people are posting without knowing what he did. How wise is that?

submitted for the threads approval:

logical things to do to keep from looking foolish in this thread...

1) Don't believe everything you read.

2) The Proof is in the Pudding. (well in this case the pudding is in the PROOF)

3)Once a Liar always a Liar (the military trains soldiers to dislike those who lie, cheat and steal...)

4)A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

if this is Jesse Macbeth then don't freak out on him and run him off. Let him tell us his side of the story, provide his proof... Then let the court of public opinion rule on his standing in our little society.

Until he has contacted one of the Three Amigos don't jump to ANY Conclusions... On EITHER side!

Just my $.02 people...

Coven

Blaine, thanks for the info and trust me, you have made your point. I think it would be really interesting if you could get some opinions from you're Muslim veteran friends. Were they in the Army pre-911? I have heard that there was a lot of anti-Muslim racism in the Army from 911 until roughly the end of 2004 and new Muslim recruits were given a really hard time.

So this OP may be a liar and etcetera.. I understand that but you do not have to start criticizing other members for giving someone the benefit of the doubt. (knowing full well he's a liar, and this may not even be the liar)
Just because we're giving his story room to breathe doesn't mean we trust him or believe him yet.

Oh my, is this so? By all means, please provide us with links to your sources.

A person enters the site claiming to be a known liar and you quickly jump to defend them by making outlandish unfounded claims? Trully amazing.

"ordered to murder Muslims indiscriminately..." by all means, please tell me how you know this. Where you personally ordered to do this?

Please enlighten me, as I am now afraid of myself out of fear that I too recieved this training and no longer understand exactly what I am capable of. Please tell me that I can get my compasion back and reverse this "brainwashing".

Originally posted by Trauma
So this OP may be a liar and etcetera.. I understand that but you do not have to start criticizing other members for giving someone the benefit of the doubt. (knowing full well he's a liar, and this may not even be the liar)
Just because we're giving his story room to breathe doesn't mean we trust him or believe him yet.

What's really a hoot is that if someone gives a positive military point of view, people try to slap them down like a red headed stepchild. No "benefit of a doubt" given at all.

If this "Jesse" REALLY wants to atone for his sins, why doesn't he make his apology and tell his story at a Special Forces website? You know the guys he claimed to actually be with when he was "killing civilians"?

Some of you really need to remove your heads from your posteriors.

It's documented and proven that this "man" lied to the world about who he was and fabricated experiences in order to make the military look bad...

Now, he comes on here and tells a story that makes the military look bad...And you believe him?

This one calls for a "bushism".
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Even if you are who you claim to be, I don't believe anything you say.

Jesse,

The only way out of this is to be truthful to yourself, and I don't think you are at that point.

What you have done has actually strengthened the position of those whom you claim to hate the most, which makes me wonder if you have actually been on someone's payroll all along.

Here is my interpreatation of you. A person who had a tough life growing up, and probably picked on a fair amount. So you join the Army trying to find the comraderie and brotherhood that was lacking in your life, and which you very much desired. Acceptance, validation, and a direction in life. I don't really believe that you joined the Army out of pure patriotism, though I don't believe you set out to do the damage you have done either.

I think Basic was probably very tough for you, but not quite as tough as you claim. You embellish what happened, because in your mind, you really feel like it was that bad. I do believe that you were probably singled out for being Muslim. Even to the point of having your Holy Book defaced, and even to the point of being hit. I do not believe that you were tied up for days on end in the barracks, or beaten within an inch of your life. It is the job of a Drill Sgt. to exploit any weakness of character, and make you face it. If your weakness was say, your Holy Book, an enemy could find and exploit that weakness just as easily as your instructor, to the detriment of this nation. Basic is not just training, it is a metamorphises of body and mind. A change you are still unwilling or unable to make. I have no doubt that your time in the Army was the worst experience of your life. As a Muslim, you certainly picked the wrong time join the US Army, but you yourself admit that you did not think it would be an issue. That was a mistake. There is certainly nothing wrong with being a Muslim, but you should have known that your loyalties would be put to the test. A test that you failed.

The Army is not for everyone. There are people who make the mistake of joining the military and are unable to make the metamorphises of body and mind, for various reasons. Not all weakness can be overcome, especially in a matter of weeks. This does not make the person useless, it just means that they are not a soldier.

In this case, you resented the fact that your weakness had been exposed. Furthermore, you were hurt and ashamed that you would not be a part of the very thing that you had pinned all of your life's hopes on. So you decided to take revenge. If one side wouldn't accept you, then the other side would. Of course you are indeed an American and not a terrorist, so in this case, the other side was the anti-war effort. The people who are trying to stop the war, and who oppose the Army politically. Here you hope again you would find this comraderie, but you were simply used up and thrown in prison for your crimes. Crimes that were perpetrated in the name of revenge, not truth, and not because you were really ever even against the war. You wanted to be a part of the war, but when you were denied your place in it, you decided to be against the war with every bit of skill and ingenuity you could muster.

Now I think you have come here to ATS, once again looking for the same validation that no one has ever given you. It is really the only thing you live for, to be accepted somewhere, and all of the doors are closed.

You will never find the truth until you are true to yourself.

I have empathy for you, and I truly hope you will find peace for your restless soul. You are your own worst enemy I think. You have gone down the wrong path, and it is a path that ends in destruction. You must turn around now, and start over.

With sincere regards,

jack

EDIT to add:

Please don't misunderstand what I mean by "weakness." Your religion is not the weakness, it is that you allowed it to be validated as a weapon against you.



[edit on 1/23/0808 by jackinthebox]