Perhaps R'lyeh is just waiting to rise as well!

But seriously - Antarctica wasn't always covered in ice. I am not up to date on Antarctic geology but I believe the last time it was green was around 10,000 BC. People were living in settlements at this time, so it's possible (if not plausible) that Antarctica did hold some kind of civilization.

Antarctica is a classic for antediluvian civilisation because you have-

1. how OLD is the Ice Age, if it occurred at all? Modern results from the ice caps are at variance sometimes with the accepted theory of how long it takes for glaciers to form, glaciers to move and melt and for freezing->melting->refreezing

2. layers of trees and bugs and so on under the permafrost indicating that it was a temperate zone

3. strange maps

4. the question of whether what is now Antarctica was always at the "South Pole"...

Originally posted by DogHead
The Piri Reis map's claim to fame besides coastal accuracy is that it shows an unfrozen Antarctica... Perhaps this island continent was the origin of the race who made the original map?

Well, the map has some kind of grossly distorted coastline scribbled on it that some people think sort of resembles Antarctica on it, if you squint really hard. Or it could just be that typical nautical junk exploring sailors used to do, adding bits of coastline they think should be there and generally making things up, because who's going to say they're wrong?

As for the Mountains of Madness, I seem to recall that it was a kind of typical Lovecraft story, where there's a lot of walking around and creepy, insanity-producing atmosphere/architecture, but nothing much actually happens.

The Piri Reis map became a cause celebre really because of the work of Hapgood, culminating in his Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings. As an isolated map it is strange but as an example of a class of maps, ones that are more accurate the older they are, it at least begs a question IMO.

As for At The Mountains Of Madness... Lovecraft must surely be one of the most suggestive writers for conspiracies and UFOlogy because he seems to be on the verge of being prescient in his writing- but then never actually is.

The Piri Reis map and similar, if accurate at all- are definitely inherited information from palimpsests and not done in one go at one time. I think the other answer possible for their inaccuracies is that with the passage of time and the dramatic changes in sea level- on a time scale many would have trouble accepting- could explain land bridges and other features we look in vain for.

If we compared many ancient maps with anomalous features, and saw constants like Andros deeps in the caribbean- there's never been a known time when a mile of water has disappeared- then we could maybe piece together a globe of the world for the antediluvian Atlantis Era, if such a thing ever was.

Originally posted by DogHead
The Piri Reis map and similar, if accurate at all - are definitely inherited information from palimpsests and not done in one go at one time.

Not actually. Please indicate your source for this broad statement.

The Piri Reis map has writing on it. It tells you how it was made. It tells you what is to be found in each area indicated on the map. Specifically, it claims large snakes and other creatures (some mythical) live in the area you refer to as Antarctica.

There is no doubt that this section of the map represents the southern portion of S. America. Antarctica is not shown anywhere on the P. Reis map.

I think the other answer possible for their inaccuracies is that with the passage of time and the dramatic changes in sea level- on a time scale many would have trouble accepting- could explain land bridges and other features we look in vain for.

If we compared many ancient maps with anomalous features, and saw constants like Andros deeps in the caribbean- there's never been a known time when a mile of water has disappeared- then we could maybe piece together a globe of the world for the antediluvian Atlantis Era, if such a thing ever was.

Nice save!

BTW, Antarctica is not completely covered with ice. It is not totally glaciated. Also, some ice in Atarctica is known to have been there for a million years or more.

Harte

What is the dating system used to deduce one million years as the age of some Antarctic ice?

The reasoning behind many of the strange maps being based on palimpsests is that they have multiple bearings drawn on them, even multiple compasses. In other words whoever transcribed them on to one sheet was copying from different smaller maps, or copying a map that had itself copied from different smaller maps.

there are great number of things that dont add up as far as human history goes.

How the hell did people end up on polynesia???

how did stonehenge get there? how did the mayans have such advanced knowlege of the earths solar obit to construct an accurate calendar? Not only that, but how did they know that the end of an age would occour in 2012, exactly the date when the solar system aligns with the galaxy?

We have found human skeletons over 100,000 years old yet there is so much Human history unexplained, only the last 6000 years is pretty well documented.

Agriculture invented only 12,000 yrs ago by the Egyptians, sorry I dont buy it! Things in my opinion seem to get wierd at the last ice age 12,000 years ago.

If there was an advanced ancient civilization before the flood then the antarctica is likely to reveal some of that as objects could have been conserved in ice, safe from religious destruction, treasure robbers, cover-up missions.

Antarctica is the place to look...if only it werent so cold and the ice covering the land so thick and the entire place occupied by elusive research stations.

Originally posted by evanmontegarde
Perhaps R'lyeh is just waiting to rise as well!

But seriously - Antarctica wasn't always covered in ice. I am not up to date on Antarctic geology but I believe the last time it was green was around 10,000 BC. People were living in settlements at this time, so it's possible (if not plausible) that Antarctica did hold some kind of civilization.

No the last time it may have been greenish (in places, it would still have been less than temperate and there's still dispute on even that much) was 4,000,000 years ago.

Originally posted by spoonbeater
there are great number of things that dont add up as far as human history goes.

How the hell did people end up on polynesia???

They navigated. First, oceans have wave patterns and currents that can be felt with human tactile senses. In specific, the Polynesian navigators used the insteps of their feet, to feel the reverberation of waves hitting land, sandbars, coral reefs and the like. They followed these waves, making note of the star positions and wind currents as they went, until they hit land. Then they resupplied, and headed back to gather colonists for the new island. It was hardly a fast process, with the last two Polynesian colonizations (that we know about) being in the Middle Ages or so - Rapa Nui and Ao Te Aroa.

The Polynesians did explain all this to Captain Cook and the other navigators they came across, but in typical Colonial European style, these methods were disregarded and the Europeans cooked up mind-numbingly dumb conjectures of the "primitives" only making landfall by total accident.

Nevermind that these "total accidents" always managed to bring a viable population of people, chickens, pigs, dogs, taro, yams... And that all the people had a very similar language...

how did stonehenge get there?

Time, people, and log rollers, paired with river barges. Seriously, just 'cause they lived a long time ago doesn't make these people inept. Leverage is a pretty simple concept.

how did the mayans have such advanced knowlege of the earths solar obit to construct an accurate calendar? Not only that, but how did they know that the end of an age would occour in 2012, exactly the date when the solar system aligns with the galaxy?

First, the solar system is ALWAYS in alignment with the galaxy. Don't try to combine astronomy with new-age stuff, someone always gets hurt. The Mayans accomplished this exactly the same way that other people did - They made measurements, took records, you know... math and science. Contrary to some ideas I've seen, being brown does not preclude people from knowing how to get things done.

We have found human skeletons over 100,000 years old yet there is so much Human history unexplained, only the last 6000 years is pretty well documented.

Actually we've found human skeletons a little over a million years old. Or dod you mean Homo sapiens?

Only the last 6,000 years is documented (and only from certain areas) because writing did not develop until people had both time for it, and need for it. A nomadic people has no time for devising a writing system, while a small agricultural community has little need to do so. Once that settled community gets large and trade increases, some way to create a lasting record of debt and standards requires a writing system.

Agriculture invented only 12,000 yrs ago by the Egyptians, sorry I dont buy it! Things in my opinion seem to get wierd at the last ice age 12,000 years ago.

It's good you don't buy it, because I've never heard anyone claim that. First off, "Egypt" did not exist 12,000 years ago - Egypt as a cultural entity arose along the lower Nile (near the Delta) some seven thousand years ago - probably in response to the introduction of Agriculture from eastward peoples.

Agriculture itself probably dates to the Mesolithic period. Ancxient settlements such as Catal Huyuk (in the Neolithic) display well-established agriculture, while stone-age peoples existing to the modern day (such as Papuan tribes) nevertheless have some pretty advanced agricultural techniques. In all likelihood, agriculture arose independently among many, many people the world over, at different points. Again, our ancestors weren't stupid, and trial and error would inevitably lead to all of them perfecting the techniques best for their climates

The Lovecraft tale of frozen monsters which thaw out may be closer to truth than you suspect. There are surely a huge number of prehistoric animal remains of various degrees of decay and preservation to be found on the Antarctic continent. Given the strides towards Jurassic Park style reanimation techniques via genetic recreation etc, it is probably only a matter of time before we see "monsters" emerge from Antarctica!

Originally posted by DogHead
What is the dating system used to deduce one million years as the age of some Antarctic ice?

I thought they used ice core dating. They measure the air bubbles in past accumulations of snow and ice I think and it gives a picture of the climate in past times. I am not sure how far back they go, but if I remember correctly it was only 450,00 thousand years. So I guess its a little short


Update

Ooops

I just did a bit of research and I was wrong, the furthest they got back was 760,000

[edit on 9/2/2008 by OzWeatherman]

Cool, thanks for the update on the ice dating method.

Good point about the frozen monsters too. Weird world it is.

40 years from now, antartica is melted down to a much smaller place, so maybe we'll know a little more then....like secret Nazi bases (just kidding).