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Is holography currently available for use and misuse?

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posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by Nyorai
Apparently Gorillaz did a tour with 3D characters.


Thanks for posting this!

It shows very nicely, the need for almost complete darkness. The background has to be black or at least a very dark colour.

RGB projection system can then create these amazing "holograms".

But they are not projected into empty air.. A special transparent foil needs to be in front of the stage. The characters then appear to be on the stage itself and can even "interact" with real people on the stage, but this is just an illusion.


If there was something bright behind them it would show through them and they would become transparent. In daylight hardly anything could be seen. In bright areas they use a huge LED wall as the video source.


Also, this system doesn't use lasers, but normal High Definition DLP projectors (projecting on that foil). The characters are 2D depictions of computer generated 3D models or anything that can be videotaped.

It's not real holography. But it is very cool tho...


EDIT: Even tho this is often mentioned as the worlds first real 3D holographic preformance, this is not quite true..

From the company's own webpage:


All the images used on an Eyeliner™ system appear as three-dimensional images, but are projected as two-dimensional images (2D/3D) into a 3D stage set. The mind of the audience created the 3D illusion. This means that production costs are minimal, needing only the single camera lens for filming and a single projector for the playback.


From: Musion Eyeliner


There are descriptions on the net, how you can build something similiar in your own home..

You need that a foil, and an LCD monitor.
You mount the foil at 45° and put the monitor on it's back below the foil.
Then you need something to show on the monitor in very high contrast. It has to be just in the middle of the screen, with the rest black.
You put this in front of a window and turn the lights off.

When people walk by that window during the night, they see the image as if it was floating in mid air...

A similiar technique was used by illusionists for ages. A tilted glass plate was in front of the stage and you could project ghostly images on it from below the stage..


Here's a link to the setup video of how Musion Eyeliner does it.

[edit on 25/1/08 by deezee]




posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by Pilgrum
My contention is that anyone who has previously seen holographic images in person would immediately identify one as such and 90% of the rest of the population would note strange anomalies at least.

The big question -
How can an image produced by projected light be made darker than the background?
Think about what 'black' actually is and find a way to actually project blackness if you can.

That would imply the alleged technology can absorb photons selectively in a free-floating medium IE pseudo-science of the worst kind.


"black" can be considered the absence of light/colors where as "white" is considered the presence of all colors at the same time. By the way this is not just an opinion, this is a text book definition back when I was taking an art course back in college.

So in retrospect, no, it's not possible for a hollogram to project black shadows on a lit room. The only way for dark shadows to show up clearly is to have the room/background darkened to highlight the shadows on the image.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by Nyorai
Apparently Gorillaz did a tour with 3D characters.



Hey I posted that in the beginning! lol!

Apparently no one here bothered to take not of it lol!

[edit on 25-1-2008 by Question]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 07:34 AM
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Here's a real 3D hologram as far as i can tell.

What is interesting is, that even in the controlled environment you can also see the beams going upwards creating the hologram. They are most obvious when something white is projected.

Again, this would be transparent, if the background wasn't dark.





When i say real 3D hologram i mean one you can walk around and see from different angles, without the projection having to change for that.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by deezee

Originally posted by Nyorai
Apparently Gorillaz did a tour with 3D characters.


Thanks for posting this!

It shows very nicely, the need for almost complete darkness. The background has to be black or at least a very dark colour.

RGB projection system can then create these amazing "holograms".

But they are not projected into empty air.. A special transparent foil needs to be in front of the stage. The characters then appear to be on the stage itself and can even "interact" with real people on the stage, but this is just an illusion.


If there was something bright behind them it would show through them and they would become transparent. In daylight hardly anything could be seen. In bright areas they use a huge LED wall as the video source.


Also, this system doesn't use lasers, but normal High Definition DLP projectors (projecting on that foil). The characters are 2D depictions of computer generated 3D models or anything that can be videotaped.

It's not real holography. But it is very cool tho...


EDIT: Even tho this is often mentioned as the worlds first real 3D holographic preformance, this is not quite true..

From the company's own webpage:


All the images used on an Eyeliner™ system appear as three-dimensional images, but are projected as two-dimensional images (2D/3D) into a 3D stage set. The mind of the audience created the 3D illusion. This means that production costs are minimal, needing only the single camera lens for filming and a single projector for the playback.


From: Musion Eyeliner


There are descriptions on the net, how you can build something similiar in your own home..

You need that a foil, and an LCD monitor.
You mount the foil at 45° and put the monitor on it's back below the foil.
Then you need something to show on the monitor in very high contrast. It has to be just in the middle of the screen, with the rest black.
You put this in front of a window and turn the lights off.

When people walk by that window during the night, they see the image as if it was floating in mid air...

A similiar technique was used by illusionists for ages. A tilted glass plate was in front of the stage and you could project ghostly images on it from below the stage..


Here's a link to the setup video of how Musion Eyeliner does it.

[edit on 25/1/08 by deezee]


Any chance you can find or write a step by step "how to"? that'd be nice to build on my spare time. But the site you listed doesn't give any instructions lol!



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by deezee
 


This reminds me of the holograms from Star Wars. They would come up from a platform of light similar to this.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by Question
So in retrospect, no, it's not possible for a hollogram to project black shadows on a lit room. The only way for dark shadows to show up clearly is to have the room/background darkened to highlight the shadows on the image.


Exactly.. All the projection systems (lasers or simple projectors) are RGB and need darkness to work.

Now unless someone invents CMYK lasers we won't be able to project holograms in daylight. CMY is doable, but black "might" present a problem...


We would have to create an anti-laser, that sucks in all light in the path of it's anti-beam.


Hey, that's a great idea, i'll go start drawing up plans for one straight away.. I wonder if i need antimatter for that? Anybody know the price of anti-photons?



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by Question
Any chance you can find or write a step by step "how to"? that'd be nice to build on my spare time. But the site you listed doesn't give any instructions lol!


Actually that video shows almost everything, but there is one on YT, that shows how to do it..

I'll go fetch it.

Here it is:




The underlying principle is identical to the Musion Eyeliner thing. Of course for shows they record material in a way that gives maximum contrast.


P.S. Oh, and shorten your quotes a little, or you might "piss off" the moderators.


[edit on 25/1/08 by deezee]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by Nyorai
This reminds me of the holograms from Star Wars. They would come up from a platform of light similar to this.


Yes, if you're using light, that has to be visible in the end, it's gonna be visible on it's way there as well.

Slightly less but still.


In a brighter area, the beams leading up to the projection won't be as visible, but neither will the projection - it will become transparent or even invisible.


This is what i kept trying to explain to OrionStars. But he said light is invisible untill you add colour to it.. Hmm..
But hey, what do i know...


But i did do that experiment i promised - taking pictures of a powerfull laser beam in different light conditions to see if a beam can prevent other light from passing through it..

Need to find the best and make them a bit smaller before posting tho..
After work...



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
Then I take it, your opinion is that it would be impossible. If so, fine, Everyone is always entitled to their opinions as long as they are not wrong in facts.

Absolutely right about the requirement for verifiable facts and I've presented my major one or two facts although there are many others. Have you presented any facts or are you simply asking for an opinion on the likelihood of projected images on a clear daylight sky?

The bulk of educated opinion expressed here suggests it's not possible on the scale or under the conditions required (like outdoors in daylight) so I guess you have an answer - if you were actually looking for answers that is.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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Everyone keeps on saying "against a clear sky" as ive said repeatedly the medium that **COULD** have been used in this scenario is an enormous aerosol cloud specifically formulated for holography.

Everyone also keeps saying that if a hologram was used that it would be sketchy and unrealistic. YES that is correct the hologram would have been no where near perfect, it only had to give the vague outline of a fast moving jet for a few seconds to convince a few people on the ground. and later on (when they saw the faked news footage) they would simply put what they THINK they saw flying through the air with the footage that was being toted as genuine together.

As for the matter of "the beams would have been visible" argument, yes you are more then likely correct but considering how many eyeballs were facing upwards towards the towers and the short amount of time needed to pull off the 3 or 4 second hologram it simply would not have mattered that these beams were visible. Because no person would automatically assume something is a hologram thus even if someone did catch a glimpse of the projector beams it simply would not register, due to the amount of carnage happening over head.

Also, with the video of the two holographic girls dancing it can be assumed that anyone seeing the point/s of origin would assume that they were simply seeing light rays through dust or smoke. They dont have the characteristic "laser beam" look to them. It simply looks like sunshine coming through a few holes.


[edit on 25-1-2008 by Retikx]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Question

"black" can be considered the absence of light/colors where as "white" is considered the presence of all colors at the same time. By the way this is not just an opinion, this is a text book definition back when I was taking an art course back in college.


That was another elementary school learning for me. It was a supposition by artist and scientist Leonardo da Vinci, and prisms proved it.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Retikx
But isn't that overlooking the fact that holograms are projections of light, not dark?

It's not possible to project an image darker than the medium it's projected onto.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by Pilgrum
 


People can present all the facts they want. But when they begin to leave out facts contradicting their facts, there is not completeness, accuracy or truth. All the facts may be true, but placed together they become either/or not if and only if.

For instance, this would be a true statement. "Holograms may have black backgrounds to contrast better, but black backgrounds are not required for holograms to be seen." See the difference between what I did for example bringing in two sets of known facts, and what you and others consistently do with your points of argument?



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Retikx
Everyone keeps on saying "against a clear sky" as ive said repeatedly the medium that **COULD** have been used in this scenario is an enormous aerosol cloud specifically formulated for holography.

Everyone also keeps saying that if a hologram was used that it would be sketchy and unrealistic. YES that is correct the hologram would have been no where near perfect, it only had to give the vague outline of a fast moving jet for a few seconds to convince a few people on the ground. and later on (when they saw the faked news footage) they would simply put what they THINK they saw flying through the air with the footage that was being toted as genuine together.


You bring up some excellent potentials with what we can learn related to holography technology. Then there is this. How much actually consciously registers in the brain when viewing anything, compared to what lodges in our sub-consious we never realize is there? What we think we consciously see is not always the reality at the sub-conscious level.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Pilgrum
reply to post by Retikx
But isn't that overlooking the fact that holograms are projections of light, not dark?

It's not possible to project an image darker than the medium it's projected onto.



Projection of light waves is the projection of invisible beams. The stream of "white light" is the projection of a human manufactured bulb. It is why we do not see any refracted streams of colors, even in darkness, until they meet with the target of a contrasting background. The more constract with other colors in constrast, the sharper the picture. Put depth to a hologram, and it can look real, particularly at a distance.

As fast as some people say those alleged planes were going, I have no idea they identified them at all. It immediately kept being pumped into our brains, by media, what we were supposed to see, and may well not been what anyone thought they witnessed at all.

It is called deliberate subliminal suggestion. It moves over the truth, and replaces it with fiction aka brainwashing/propagandizing. The truth is not lost. It is simply on override by propagandized fiction due to deliberate subliminal suggestion.

People start consciously rationalizing what they thought they saw, and it is always metaphorically easier for stress levels, to go with the flow rather than trying to buck the current swimming upsteam.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by Retikx
 


Actually, the sky is never clear. There is quite often a sky blue colored background with white clouds here and there. There is the constrast to other colors. Blue screen or green screen or even purple screen.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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I will simply call this gut instinct. I have a gut instinct the perperpetrators could not have pulled it off on an overcast day.



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by OrionStars
Sorry but you're not from this planet are you


Where'd you get this idea of invisible light beams being used to create visible images - not even elementary school science books could be blamed for that.

See if the source of that info can explain the method of projecting dark with a light beam for me.




[edit on 25/1/2008 by Pilgrum]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Retikx
Everyone also keeps saying that if a hologram was used that it would be sketchy and unrealistic.

Actually we were not saying that a hologram would have been sketchy and unrealistic.

We are saying something else entirely.

You can not create an appearance of something darker than the background, using light!

All the holograms or projections we've seen so far require almost complete darkness behind them.

As the ambient light and especially the illumination of the background increases, the hologram becomes increasingly more transparent.

In full daylight, the light of the sun is so strong, that a hologram would hardly be visible. Even if you were projecting something on a white screen, with a very powerfull projector, it would be completelly faint.

The easyest way to imagine this is, when you are in cinema and they start the commercials with the lights on. Because of the lights the screen reflects the light as well as the projection, so the projection is faint. With the lights off, you see the image clearly.


We have discussed this already, and the problem is, you can not use light to create an appearance of something darker than the background.

Darkness is the absence of light. The more powerfull laser you use, the more the thing would glow and still be transparent..

Also, a laser beam can not stop other light from shining through it. I just made many pictures to proove this, using a powerfull laser and different light conditions.

These are the reasons, why it wouldn't work.

You would need the possibility of creating darkness - a black laser, or an "anti laser", completelly "sucking" the photons out of the path of it's "beam"..

This is simply impossible. Black light doesn't exist. Black is the absence of light.



Ok, now i would like to make something else clear.. I'm not saying 911 wasn't a conspiracy.. I'm also not saying it was. I don't know for sure either way.

But if you think you are furthering the cause of the truth movement with this theory, you are wrong. You are doing just the opposite, just like the micronuke people - making the entire thing appear ridiculous.


As i said before, if it was a conspiracy, it would have been easyer, cheaper, safer, more convincing and more efficient to simply convert a passenger or cargo plane to remote control. Not to mention that it would be possible (unlike the holograms).

And if you think the "hologram" wouldn't have to be convincing, then why not simply use a UAV like the Global Hawk?

People in shock won't necessarily recognise it and the TV would do the brain washing, right?

Even if it was completely prooven, that the videos of the plane impacts were CGI, this wouldn't mean holograms!
A way more likely explanation for the need of CGI would be concealing the fact, that it was a cargo plane or even a UAV.

Again, IF it was conspiracy.. I don't know about that and that is not the point here.

The point is, that holograms are impossible in this case.
And even if they were possible, there are hundreds of reasons not to use them.




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