Interesting Place to Find a Masonic Obelisk

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posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by shotinthehead
 


Your not replying, but you keep talking. You are not specifically replying to anyone because to acknowledge anyone else would mean that you would have to explain what you say - which you can't. Its far easier to believe in this type of fantasy when you simply ignore everyone who doesn't agree with you - which is what you are doing.

What you basically do is believe in whatever you want to believe in, and then find the evidence to justify it. If the "evidence" confirms it for you, you simply take it as the gospel truth - regardless of whether or not its actually true - or the source of the evidence - or the logic (there is none) behind what you believe.

It would be odd if Masonry had a international "headquarters" anywhere, since there is no headquarters for masonry. It would also be odd of there was a international headquarters at the UN - if there was one. But there is not, and you are simply and quite literally spreading a untruth.

No one doubts the Bavarian illuminati did exist at one point, but anyone who -has- studied it knows that there is no connection between them and masonry. Where is you source for any of this? You do realize I can literally type up a website and make it claim your the Anti-Christ. If I cite it, it must then be true.

When will you learn reality: there are no 90th degree masons. There are no 90th degree memphis masons. There may be a few 90th degree memphis misiram members. They are not recognized by any regular lodge I am aware of, and I could care less. You also probably met someone who was having fun playing with you, claiming to be all those things. You fell for it - because you believe in what you want..and later make up the evidence for it.

By the way, anyone can make a forum and give themselves supermod status - no one is impressed by such "credentials."




posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by shotinthehead
The cry of cut and paste by you strikes as insincere. If you had anything to rebuff the "obviously" horrid cut and paste job that I am doing then you would not spend all your time decrying the "obvious" C&P method and more time denying the validity of what I write.

Sigh. Sometimes subtlety is lost on the most base of internet posters.

I'm unsure of what you think I'm "striking" at ... since you didn't manage to include a target, but I'll try to use little words so you can understand what I mean when I post:

- What is insincere is you. Your cut and paste homage to the antis, your ineffectual typing spasms, and your continued lack of credibility.

- There is nothing you've posted that in any way requires a 'rebuff.'

- Nothing you've written is valid, and since you only cut and pasted it from other sites and other posts that have already been debunked as a load of hooey, there's not much point in denying it again; nobody argues with a parrot.

What you've obviously missed is that I'm not arguing with you; an argument requires more than on point of view, and more than one argument. Your point of view is stolen from others, and you haven't presented any valid arugument.

What I am doing, however, is pointing and laughing at you.


Now that we're clear, please continue with your silliness.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy
As I said before I am no Layman.

Whether you're a member of the clergy or not is irrelevant. You have no credential or level of believability that I can see as credible. You're just another ignorant anti-Mason who only posts so he can see if anyone will talk to him. Being an anonymous poster on a free message board on the internet is your sole claim to fame.


You're a Blue lodger, aren't you? By all means educate us on the difference between all the Royal Arches and Brazen Serpents then.

All I know about Masonry I learned from Freemasons, observation and Freemasonry For Dummies (which, I'm coming to find out from reading some of the absolutely ludicrous posts here, may be above the reading level of certain members of this site ... all of them - without exception - being anti-Masons).

And - in answer to your request regarding the difference between "all the Royal Arches and Brazen Serpents" I say unto you:

Who cares? You don't know what you're talking about, so there's no reason in the world to do anything but laugh at the absurdity that is you.

And I mean that solemnly, sincerely, and with all my heart.


Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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Sharp, cutting speech isn't neccesary and only promotes more clashing blades. A mans speech should be heavy not sharp.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by shotinthehead
You will notice that I am not replying to anything.

Nor have you at any point said anything of substance. That's to be expected; you've got nothing, you've been exposed, and you think that by posting more meaningless words you'll somehow be vindicated.

That's not how it works. If my dog drops a load in the same place over and over again, it doesn't mean he's bright ... it just means there's a bigger pile of poop in the yard.


I met a man one time who was a 90th degree memphis mason, an occultist, a member of the illuminati, a catholic priest and a satanic high preist.

I met a man who talked to mailboxes. The difference between you and your imaginary friend and the guy who talked to mailboxes? The mailbox didn't believe everything it heard.


Freemasonary is but one of the many heads of this beast.

Which beast? The crazy guy, the mailbox, the guy who talked to the mailbox or the crazy guy's imaginary friend?

I'm sure you missed the subtlety there. It's okay; you're new.


Although I wonder if anyone has looked into the round building in Switzerland? Does anyone know what three global bodies are housed there?

Ah. The 'round building in Switzerland.' Yeah. There's only one round building in Switzerland, right?

If a building is round, does it roll like a ball? And how do you deliver mail to a ball. Perhaps this is a question that is best put your your imaginary friend...


The U.N international headquarter, The World bank and The true Master Lodge of Freemasonary. Why the blank would freemasons be in such a place?

The United Nations Headquarters is in New York City, New York. The World Bank headquarters are in Washington D.C. There is no such thing as 'the true Master Lodge' nor is there such a thing as 'Freemasonary.'

Perhaps in your confusion you've confused Freemasonry with Freemasonite.


I could care less what Mason's think of me

That's not true; if you truly could 'care less' then you wouldn't be posting here. You're only posting because you're lonely and no one in real life believes you or is willing to listen to your silliness - save for your imaginary 9,000th level Memphis Masonite.


For anyone to say the higher ups are not in a "secret cabal" has never looked into the Bavarian Illuminati (started May 1st 1776 in Bavaria). Though disbanded they still managed to redirect the course of Freemasonary back to it's intended goals.

Yeah...about that. If they're disbanded, they were never mainstream Masonry, and no one except for conspiracy theorists ever listened to them, then the chances they changed anything other than their own underwear are nil.


Why post what I can not prove?

I already answered that above.


It does prove to my friends how easy it is to muddy the waters though.

Yeah ... but if your friends are all imaginary, then who - exactly - are you proving it too?


Having been a moderator and Super Moderator on the net for a while now


WoooOOOOooow. A Super moderator. Do you take off your glasses and put on a shiny blue suit with little red footies when you become SooooperModerator? Can you fly? Are you able to leap tall websites in a single bound? Do make any sense when you become SooooooperModerator, or do you just continue to cut and paste other people's words in the hopes that someone will pay attention to you?

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by depth om
Sharp, cutting speech isn't neccesary and only promotes more clashing blades. A mans speech should be heavy not sharp.

pffft.

The sharp point of witty reparte is always preferable to the dull thud of a heavy speech. It takes a true master to wield reparte ... any caveman can swing a heavy speech.

Your pal,
Meat.

[edit on 23-1-2008 by mmmeat]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

QUOTE

Shocking, I never would have guessed.

QUOTE

Sure, why not, post away.

QUOTE

*yawn*

QUOTE

Since you are so unfettered, pleae, enlighten us all with your vast reserves of esoteric and Masonic knowledge.

QUOTE

How, oh knowledgeable one, does one prove a negative? Please instruct us in this impossibility.


I recommend you take a look at the site rules about 'excessive quoting' Augustus. It isn't worth a full page of dialogue to read your one-liner sarcastic quips. I am starting to think Masons in general on this board have a hard time distinguishing from valid debate and petty antagonism. Condescending other members as you have proven a master of, is actually a form of trolling. But it's not up to me to make that call.

I suggest that we allow other people to bring up any ideas they want about masonry symbolism, present ANY source of information, without the same cookie-cutter criticism about mainstream acceptance.

Instead of condescending to other members with one liners and excessively ripping their posts apart with quotes, I'd for one would like to see the SS forum evolve in a more neutral and progressive format... which allows Masons to discuss their organization WITHOUT attacking or belittling others who would like to as well.

[edit on 23-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by mmmeat

Originally posted by shotinthehead
You will notice that I am not replying to anything.

Nor have you at any point said anything of substance. That's to be expected; you've got nothing, you've been exposed, and you think that by posting more meaningless words you'll somehow be vindicated.

That's not how it works. If my dog drops a load in the same place over and over again, it doesn't mean he's bright ... it just means there's a bigger pile of poop in the yard.


Originally posted by mmmeat
pffft.
The sharp point of witty reparte is always preferable to the dull thud of a heavy speech. It takes a true master to wield reparte ... any caveman can swing a heavy speech.


I suggest you take a look at my above post and consider the difference between an OPEN FORUM OF DISCUSSION and your manner of posting. We are not here on ATS to stand up against the wall while posters shoot their most inventive ammunition (vocabulary) like it's some kind of 'fight to the death'. Reparte and witty sarcasm are NOT open discussion.
I still encourage you to keep it up, I'd like to see this behavior stopped and it only helps our cause to have it out in the open.

Maybe we can get back to the discussion of the obelisk, Masons and other aggressors withstanding. I doubt it though.


Originally posted by mmmeat
You have no credential or level of believability that I can see as credible. You're just another ignorant anti-Mason who only posts so he can see if anyone will talk to him.
Who cares? You don't know what you're talking about, so there's no reason in the world to do anything but laugh at the absurdity that is you.

And I mean that solemnly, sincerely, and with all my heart.



You know what? I'm just going to report this. This behavior is ridiculous, from all of you, and I'd love to join other members in stopping it.

I'm done with this thread. I return to the SS forum knowing that the bullies in this forum are all going to get there's
Cya,

[edit on 23-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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*doublepost, sorry*

[edit on 23-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by twitchy
 


It looks like a pyramid. An obelisk is a different sort of structure. And simple fact is, if you're going to build a monument in the desert on top of a nuclear test site, you want to use a pyramid, because next to a dome, it's the most stable shape you can use in architecture, and it makes a better monument than a dome.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by NewWorldOver
I suggest you take a look at my above post

I don't actually read your posts, anymore. I did, at one time, until I figured out that you aren't anything other than 'yet another anti-Mason hack' who really doesn't bring anything to the table.

So your suggestion to look at some other post you made is kind of moot.

I do, however, appreciate you putting that big silly avatar up there; it makes it simpler to see that it's a post by you so that I can safely scroll past it without missing anything relevant to the conversation of the thread.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by mmmeat

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
I suggest you take a look at my above post

I don't actually read your posts, anymore. I did, at one time, until I figured out that you aren't anything other than 'yet another anti-Mason hack' who really doesn't bring anything to the table.

So your suggestion to look at some other post you made is kind of moot.

I do, however, appreciate you putting that big silly avatar up there; it makes it simpler to see that it's a post by you so that I can safely scroll past it without missing anything relevant to the conversation of the thread.

Your pal,
Meat.


Just quoting this in case you try to edit it. More off-topic bullying and passive aggressive insults. Cya.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by NewWorldOver

Originally posted by mmmeat

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
I suggest you take a look at my above post

I don't actually read your posts, anymore. I did, at one time, until I figured out that you aren't anything other than 'yet another anti-Mason hack' who really doesn't bring anything to the table.

So your suggestion to look at some other post you made is kind of moot.

I do, however, appreciate you putting that big silly avatar up there; it makes it simpler to see that it's a post by you so that I can safely scroll past it without missing anything relevant to the conversation of the thread.

Your pal,
Meat.


Just quoting this in case you try to edit it. More off-topic bullying and passive aggressive insults. Cya.

Just quoting this in case you try to edit it. More off-topic bullying and passive agressive insults.

Reported to the proper authorities.

Like all of your other posts.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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Ok. the bickering stops here,

lets leave out the insults and get to the topic at hand, you can always use the ignore feature to avoid each others posts on the topic,

Now lets please get this back on track,

Thank you,

Asala



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:16 PM
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Outstanding. Now that we are back on topic would twitchy, newworldover or shotinthehead care to answer my question that still remains from the second post in this thread:

What makes the Trinity memorial Masonic?

Not a very difficult question since you all seem so knowledgeable about Freemasonry, please try to answer in your own words if you can. Thank you.

[edit on 23-1-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 



No one doubts the Bavarian illuminati did exist at one point, but anyone who -has- studied it knows that there is no connection between them and masonry. Where is you source for any of this?


I disagree here. There are plenty of good sources establishing links between the Bavarian Illuminati and Masonry.

The Illuminati worked the degrees of the Blue Lodge. Weishaupt managed to get a patent from the Grand Lodge. (can't remember which at present, can check later if you wish) A major plan of the Illuminati was infiltrating masonic Lodges and recruting members. Illuminati members who could not continue pass the Masonic degrees (to Illuminati Major) whould be declared "Sta Bene" and remained as Master Masons.

IMO, a good source for information on the Bavarian Illuminati is René Le Forestier's Les illuminés de Bavière et la Franc-Maçonnerie allemande. The book is LeForestier's doctoral thesis on the subject. (peer-reviewed)

__________

About the obelisk...

Is it possible that the obelisk is a symbol in the irregular Rite of Memphis Lodges? They seem to use a lot of Egyptian symbols, but information on them is difficult to find. Are there a lot of members in the Rite of Memphis?

Also, I have to ask my question again, since it seems to be the only on topic comment in the past 2 pages...

Are there any active Masonic Lodges within he US military? Were there any in 1965 when the monument was built?


[edit on 23/1/08 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 11:37 PM
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I had some information on this post, www.abovetopsecret.com...
He was the Big Cheese at one the top Military Testing Grounds, a Super-Teet of the Military Industrial Complex during Kennedy's term. Quite a catch for the Brotherhood if he was a mason. I did find a couple sources claiming that he was the one that personally funded the stone memorial, so if Maj. Gen. Frederick Thorlin was a freemason, than I think it would be pretty conclusive, what do we know about that dude?
Lodges in his home town, or lodges in the White Sands Area would have records of his membership probably. Maybe one of our resident masons could confirm this?
I'm sorry but it's obviously an Obelisk. Uncle Sam calls it an obelisk, and they probably know a little about their own facilities and the subsequent commission of any art work being displayed there as a memorial. If there's an official source that says it's a Yurt or a Swahili Dung Mound, or something other than an Obeslisk, by all means I'd like to see it.
I say it's masonic, and I've yet to see anything to convince me otherwise. Sorry. If the Obelisk isn't masonic, why do you guys go around sticking them up with parades and moose hats, do you know how ridiculous that sounds to people who know better?
What was under the NYC Obelisk when they first lifted it off the ground in Egypt to move it to NY? What went under it when they reset it? What isn't masonic about the bloody thing except for maybe the rocks?
Another thing, you never answered my question about me and Cleetus, why can't we just pull up to the construction of a public library and bury some beer cans and ball caps there to represent our little good ole boys club along side you masons? Who gives you the clout to do that?



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


About the obelisk...

Is it possible that the obelisk is a symbol in the irregular Rite of Memphis Lodges?


Yes. As a member of the Grand College of Rites of the United States, I was "invested" with the degrees of Memphis and Mitzraim. If I remember correctly, the obelisk appears as a symbol in both.


They seem to use a lot of Egyptian symbols, but information on them is difficult to find. Are there a lot of members in the Rite of Memphis?


The only regular Masonic body that has jurisdiction over those degrees is the Grand College. It has several thousand members.




Are there any active Masonic Lodges within he US military?


Yes. You can Google "Masonic military lodge" and get a pretty large list of them.


Were there any in 1965 when the monument was built?



Probably, but I don't much at all about the military lodges, being an old pacifist beatnik and all.




posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 09:31 AM
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Hey guys I just wanted to chime in on the OP. As a resident of New Mexico, and one who likes to ramble about I have seen LOTS of these obelisks. In fact many scenic sites along the highways and interstates uses these obelisks to mount placks. So I think it is just a (I personally believe BAD) design on the part of someone working for the state to mount placks at places of interest throughout the state. My $00.02.



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by ConspiracyNut23
 


*Sigh* Perhaps I should have made myself more clear: the poster which I was referring to was attempting to make some conspiratorial link between the "Illuminati" and Masonry. There is no link. He made it sound like he thinks the illuminati are still around too - untrue.

There may have been members of the historical Illuminati (who no longer exist), who were masons. There are also members, who are male. Does this mean there is some conspiracy between the male gender and masonry? No. Again, simply because people share the same characteristics does not mean there is a conspiracy or casual connection between those characteristics, to propose so is to commit yet another logical fallacy.

By the way, a dissertation isn't really peer reviewed, its only reviewed by your committee. Its about the lowest form of "peer review" in academia and since your committee is usually on the same ideological side as you the standard of evidence is much lower. But it is certainly a better source than freemasonry watch, by leaps and bounds.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



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