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posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by DogHead
Either their secret is worthless or the humanistic morality they publicly espouse is a deception. Or both.


The secret, in and of itself, is worthless. Do you really want to know our 'special' handshakes or observe the degree work?


I and my whole family have been masons since there have BEEN masons. right where it all actually started too, not in some benighted branch practising bastardised rites. So spare me the patronising tone, ok? Keep it for the softbrains who give a damn. I went through the whole kit and kaboodle.

Masonry is a pointless evolutionary dead end whose pseudo psychology rivals Scientology. But then it would- since both in their current form claim descent from Crowleyism and behind that the pagan mysteries, which were SUCH a good idea that the original and very radical form of Christianity erased them in a few centuries. Nice ancestry.

So why am I here? To clobber the ignorant. And do my bit to stop decadent barbarism in the form of cults, intel disinformation, irrationality and false flag faith from overwhelming a culture that, despite its deep flaws, was getting a majority of people to devote a majority of their thoughts to doing the most good for the most people.




posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by DogHead
 


Interesting that you and your whole family have been masons. What lodge number and what state? I'd like to verify your membership, as this seems to be more of just another rabid anti-mason rant by someone who probably got blackballed than anything with a valid point.

I did look for a valid point, very closely. Sadly, I found none. But if you are in fact a former mason, you are at least more credible in your claims. But first we'd have to verify that you (1) were a former mason, and (2) demitted without being kicked out. Otherwise, just another anti-mason rant.

So, since you were a mason, do tell - WHAT is the secret? Whence came you?

[edit on 24-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Don Killuminati
I don't trust ANYTHING a Mason would say.

well I guess you won't believe anything I say ..... LOL
so when I speak .... better put your ear muffs on .... LMAO



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by LightinDarkness
So, since you were a mason, do tell - WHAT is the secret? Whence came you?
[edit on 24-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

From a lodge of the holy saints John of Jerusalem ....



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by DogHead

Originally posted by Quazga
Wow thats a huge leap. So anyone who practices defensive techniques has a fundamentally anti-human agenda? Geesh.


No, the huge leap was made by you. Let's take some smaller leaps together and see what I actually said.

1. deception (secrecy) = warfare (aggression).
2. masonry practices deception (secrecy).
3. masonry practices warfare (aggression).

Wow. You leaped to some pretty unusual places.

Deception isn't secrecy, it's misrepresentation. Secrecy is the act of keeping something private or concealed. Tow different words, two different meanings.

Warfare isn't aggression, it's the act of violent armed combat. Aggression is a disposition, not an act. Again, two different words, two different meanings.

Masonry primarily practices the three tenets - or virtues - of Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth. Their values are prudence, temperance, fortitude and justice. They only practice secrecy as it applies to modes of recognition.

Masonry does not practice warfare. it does not practice aggression. It's only aim is to make good men better.


No one keeps a secret that they think has no value. To claim a humanist value system as Masonry does, then keep secret something that they think has at least moral worth, is contradictory in the extreme.

As far as I can tell, Masonry doesn't 'claim a humanist value' at all; it claims to be a fraternity.

Keeping a mode of recognition secret isn't contradictory. Modes of recognition only have value to Masons.

The belief that the Masons have a secret that is more than that is just plain silly ... in the extreme.


Either their secret is worthless or the humanistic morality they publicly espouse is a deception. Or both.

Or ... you just don't understand what the 'secret' is. It's been written about exhaustively here and on many other websites.


That was the argument in a nutshell. There was more, but that's a start.

I will concur that there is a nutshell.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by SimonSays
 


Not you, Simon! I was waiting to see if he'd say it and then try to discern if he got it from googling by follow up questions


[edit on 24-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by DogHead
I and my whole family have been masons since there have BEEN masons.

I sincerely doubt it. I have read your posts on Masonry, and - if you were truly a Mason - you would certainly know more about Masonry than I do. And that is not the case.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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I came here simply because I like this topic, and I get laughed at in pretty much any other surrounding. I'm not a Secret society or UFO buff. I'm more of a cryptid, supernatural buff really.
As for the statements in the OP< this is just a rant on a group you probably haven't bothered to research past the conspiracies.
Am I the only one that wants to put two opposing trolls in a room and let 'em talk it out?



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by LightinDarkness
Not you, Simon! I was waiting to see if he'd say it and then try to discern if he got it from googling by follow up questions


Oops, sorry to spoil the fun .....



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 

while I commend you on your tact, though I think the entered apprentice
catacysm is not what you should have started out with to prove that
point. There are still 2 more degrees to go before he could sit in a regular
lodge. Maybe you should have asked this question instead.

"Would you be off or from?"

As quite a few people get the first but not the 2nd or 3rd ....



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by SimonSays
 


This is true, and I do in "real life," but since the answer to those that question both times is "from" and then I have to ask "from what?" its easier to ask something that requires a longer answer. Plus, the strange word combination might make it easier to figure out googling verses over, "whence came you" - but I'm probably over-thinking. You can always point out the fakemasons eventually anyways.

We'll see how he verifies his membership, given his extremely negative attitude towards the fraternity.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by LightinDarkness
This is true, and I do in "real life," but since the answer to those that question both times is "from" and then I have to ask "from what?" its easier to ask something that requires a longer answer. Plus, the strange word combination might make it easier to figure out googling verses, "whence came you" - but I'm probably over-thinking. You can always point out the fakemasons eventually anyways.

yea, ya got a good point there


Originally posted by LightinDarkness
We'll see how he verifies his membership, given his extremely negative attitude towards the fraternity.

yea, I was wondering about that myself. I did notice the animosity
and was wondering how that has built up into full blown hatred
by the tone.

But just remember this when you seek out your evidence:

I furthermore solemnly swear that I will not write, indite, cut, carve,
print, paint, stamp, stain, mark or engrave ..... thingy whilst you
perform your testing functions ......

Just a brotherly reminder
As there is no need to break one's
oath while in the midst of revoking another's ......



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by SimonSays
 


True. See your PM for more info on why I did that though. Anyways, DogHead, I really would like to somehow see you lend some credibility to your claims of masonic membership. I have never seen a brother act with such sheer hatred toward the fraternity. I'm sure we all have disagreements to various aspects of the fraternity and we are entitled to them, but you basically seem to hate the entire organization - which is quite different.

Which is why your er...rant, for a loss of a better word, seems to be so strikingly similar to anti-masonic propaganda.



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by DogHead
I and my whole family have been masons since there have BEEN masons. right where it all actually started too, not in some benighted branch practising bastardised rites.


Well, in that case, why are you here pondering the 'secrets' of the Fraternity? You obviously know them, since at this point they must be heriditary.


I went through the whole kit and kaboodle.


Somehow I seriously doubt this.


Masonry is a pointless evolutionary dead end whose pseudo psychology rivals Scientology. But then it would- since both in their current form claim descent from Crowleyism and behind that the pagan mysteries, which were SUCH a good idea that the original and very radical form of Christianity erased them in a few centuries. Nice ancestry.


I can not speak for the Scientologists as their system is foriegn to me. I find nothing about Masonry's tenets to be 'dead ends', as the assisting of my fellowman is a spiritually rewarding endeavor and the fraternity I share with my brothers is irreplaceable.


So why am I here? To clobber the ignorant.


Does it hurt when you punch yourself in the face?


And do my bit to stop decadent barbarism in the form of cults, intel disinformation, irrationality and false flag faith from overwhelming a culture that, despite its deep flaws, was getting a majority of people to devote a majority of their thoughts to doing the most good for the most people.


Do you hope to accomplish this goal by berating and belittling others belief systems and/or social orginizations? Interesting tact to employ.



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 11:47 PM
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My opinion:

I do not have nothing against skeptics, but,,,and a great BUT, They'r presence in Conspiracy, aliens, mistery forums are away too negative and moust of the time they ruin totaly the foruns . It is not logical that we must admit and listen, for exemple in a alien debate forum, people that do not belive in them, and thinks that all who belive are crazy! That will ruin all kind of possible debates, because it is clear that nobody not working for the proper organizations have solid proofs to show us. Camon, the primal objective of a alien debate forum it's to share and debate personal experiences, examination of ufo videos and so on. The presence of pure skeptics just saying and screaming that it's all lies and who belives it are just nuts...what possible good can bring to this subject!
I had sayed, i say, and i always will say: The presence of general skeptics in ATS, will kill the forum's primal objective, it will ruin it, and will transform ATS in the end, a place where people just debate politics and war against terrorism!



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by Umbra Sideralis
 


Without skeptics, the forum devolves to "I believe in < insert X theory here >" and everyone else says "I agree." What exactly is the point of a forum where EVERYONE agrees and NOTHING is questioned? Such a forum would ruin absolutely any credibility that conspiracy theorists have.

[edit on 25-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Jan, 25 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
I had sayed, i say, and i always will say: The presence of general skeptics in ATS, will kill the forum's primal objective, it will ruin it, and will transform ATS in the end, a place where people just debate politics and war against terrorism!

By the same token: the presence of only general believers at ATS will kill the forum's primal objective. Obviously, the 'forum' part of ATS is for discussion, not simply agreement. Put a bunch of believers in an alien debate forum and they'll feed off each other to the point where they all believe that they're all aliens. Left to their own devices, they'll fester.

I firmly believe that you have to have opposing viewpoints - in ATS's case: believers and skeptics - in order to have a healthy discussion, keep passions within due bounds, and evolve beyond being just another 'me too' group.

In the case of ATS, it's the skeptics that will keep you honest.

And - while I only tend to visit the Secret Society forum - what I see is that the 'skeptics' there seem to know more about the topics than the 'believers' do. Hopefully, it's only specific to that forum. What I see there are threads started by people who only want to attack others. Members who have no proof, will not accept proof, and only want to argue. Admittedly it's only a few (whose posts I now scroll past), but ... if all the other forums run the same way, I have to say: I think you NEED more skeptics to sign up here.

I want to believe ... but I will not do so blindly.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 26 2008 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by meat... in the case of ATS, it's the skeptics that will keep you honest...what I see is that the 'skeptics' there seem to know more about the topics than the 'believers' do...


'Skeptic' is a much abused and mis-used word. It means open-minded, scientific in approach, looking for evidence before accepting anything. It's usually the only way to get to the truth.

Budd Hopkins is an arch-skeptic:
www.intrudersfoundation.org...

David Jacobs is an arch-skeptic:
www.ufoevidence.org...

Richard Dolan is a genuine skeptic:
www.ufoevidence.org...

These guys are interested only in facts which can be proven and multiply corroborated. A ruthless, hard-headed scientific approach to the issue is used, and conclusions drawn only after years of painstaking research no matter how out-of-the-box and uncomfortable these conclusions might be. They are not 'believers' in anything, just interested in evidence and open-minded. Operating this way, millions of others have become persuaded as to the veracity of their conclusions, because they fit the data and are check-outable.

However, people like Susan Clancy, often erroneously labeled as a 'skeptic' by the MSM, is anything but. She is an example of a believer, determined to ignore any evidence which disproves her pre-determined beliefs and force-fit any phenomenon into an already-formed opinion. See a review of her work by Stan Friedman:

www.v-j-enterprises.com...

So in summary, I would appeal for more skepticism, and a more honest and accurate use of the term. If you don't have a genuinely skeptical approach, and you're not thorough and open-minded, no-one except maybe a few fanatical believers are going to be convinced by your arguments.




posted on Feb, 2 2008 @ 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by Don Killuminati
Or am I wrong when it comes to what this site is for?


Your wrong, Abovetopsecret.com is mainly for conspiracies, but it also has very good, science, space, aircraft, medical and many many other sections. not every thing here is about secret societys, and beliving in societys is not something that you have to do to join ATS.

Dorian Gray

[edit on 2-2-2008 by Dorian Gray]




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