What are you guys doing here?

Originally posted by Don Killuminati

It's like joining an NBA msg board if you don't like basketball...

No it's more like joining an NBA discussion board and debating with other followers of the game whether the top five picks in the draft should be decided by "lotto balls", or the fact that players can't wear full length hose, shorts down to their ankles, or "bling".

I doubt any large group of individuals interested in a similar subject are all gonna have the same exact opinion on everything 100% of the time.

As far as corruption goes. . .

ANYTHING organized has some level of corruption embedded into it. Whether it be religion, government, sports, clubs, etc.. This is because humans are involved. Some of us are corupt.

I don't know if there exists a level of corruption in FreeMasonry the likes that you cite, but I'm here to be involved in conversation about the subject. Therefore I am skeptical, but willing to learn.

Why did you come to a discussion board that has skeptics within it's ranks if you've already found out everything you need to know about this subject and have your mind made up?

Just some thoughts. . . BTW- Welcome!

2PacSade-

spelling

[edit on 22-1-2008 by 2PacSade]

"Skeptic" is the most misused word in the language. It does NOT mean a reactionary doubter with his or her mind made up that such things outside the norm cannot possibly exist. It means being UNCERTAIN about particular conclusions, but not rejecting the theories or notions outright. There was a recent thread about "pseudoskeptics" that pretty much nailed the difference between real and fake skeptics... The "debunkers" who appear on Larry King are prime examples of fakes. Those are your REAL disinformants; intentional or not.

Originally posted by DogHead
They aren't allowed to due to their religion or creed?

As long as they beleive in a Supreme Being they are permitted to join. By creed do you mean race? If so, this also does not preclude addmission into Masonry. The majority of Grand Lodges are affiliated with the respective Prince Hall in their state and I know of many lodges-including my own- that have members of numerous ethic backgrounds as members.

They aren't allowed to due to being female?

Perhaps you have not heard of Co-Masons?

They have better things to do than ponce around playing "let's pretend" and getting drunk whilst pretending to do charitable works?

I can not speak for all districts but I feel fairly safe and stating that there is no drunkenness permitted in lodge and additionally many jurisdictions do not even permit alcohol on lodge premisis.

Funny how little charity makes it past the borders of masonry to the general community.

What exactly are you basing this statement on? Even a cursory glance at Masonry would reveal the numerous works that are performed by the Bretheren to the benefit of their community and neighbors.

But being a mason sure does come in handy to dodge a speeding ticket... Or even something much more serious.

I have never gotten out of a ticket because of my Masonic affiliation, my PBA shield is much more effective for that.

Deception and secrecy are, according to Sun Tzu, the fundaments of warfare. That masonry embraces these elements so enthusiastically speaks volumes as to the hidden aggression of its exclusivist and fundamentally anti-human agenda.

Interesting piece of rhetoric, where does Masonry practice deception? What aspects are anti-human and agressive? What makes Masonry exclusive when it is open to anyone of good moral and social standing as long as they have the prerequisite belief in diety?

I used to be in a lodge.
We drank all the time....
lol you sir are lying, no rules/law against drinking...

reply to post by vanderLinde



Where are you permitted to drink in lodge? I know of no jurisidiction that allows that type of behavior and nor would I want to be a part of it as well. Please do yourself a favor and converse with other Bretheren and they will inform you of which jurisidictions do not even permit alcohol on the lodge property under any circumstances-Ohio being one that I know from speaking to others on this forum.

Well, I'm pretty sure we did drink, after lodge meatings inside the lodge with crackers and cheese, wine, vodka...
Yeah I'm pretty sure, every week

What are you guys doing here?

I ask myself this question often,

Why am I here?

Who am I ?

What's this all about?

What time is it?

Where did we come from?

Do you know the way to San Jose?

How much wood "DOES!" a woodchuck, chuck, and who cares?

Did she really sell sea shells by the sea shore?

But then I realised, I had all the answers of the universe within my very being.

Does that answer your question?

Ask me anything.

I joined ATS because I am interested in science and i think this is the only place you can express yourself. It's not about weather or not you care what other people think, ATS wants you to express yourself and your form of ideas and we are not really debating, we're just saying what we think and what we believe, believe it or not this site can help in research and other things (even though some material could be fake). So, its okay if you question our point of being here, but ask yourself this question: Why did you register here on ATS?

Why did you register here on ATS?

The evil overlords made me do it.

reply to post by vanderLinde


I think you might have slightly mis-construed my repsonse to another poster. By drinking in lodge I meant in the same room as the actually meetings take place. There is no where that I know that this transpires and to reiterate I would not want to be a part of it if it indeed does take place.

As for drinking at collation after lodge, this is permitted in my jurisdiction but this takes place downstairs and not in the lodge room itself. This is not allowed in all jurisidictions as alcohol is banned in many.

These threads are getting tiring.

Have you ever heard of the concept of "Freedom of Speech"? How about the sharing of ideas to attain the common goal of truth? Do you understand what is on ATS is mostly "theory" as opposed to fact? Do you read the Weekly World News as if it were fact

Before you start, I am not a Mason. I am the only member of a new super secret society dedicated to the elimination of tedious repetitive work from our culture.

Welcome to ATS. You will fit right in. You have already discovered which chains to yank to get points

reply to post by vanderLinde



This is the type of claptrap that makes one, such as myself, warey of people who buy into whole belief systems (BS?) hook, line, and sinker, and then turn around and try to make everyone else uncomfortable.

Rather than simply put out bold statements about how pretty sure you are that you dranki vodka, wine, etc, with cheese and crackers, and offer no other evidence, why not put up the name of the lodge, number, location, etc?

Personally, I think that were it in close proximity, I'd get off on joining a group that knew how to have a pleasant evening, once a week, or whatever their schedule might be.

If you haven't figured it out, I am one of those that you consider to be a sceptic, or as is the current vogue "skeptic". I am not in the business of pooh-poohing anyone else's belief system. I am in the business of confirming mine. My particular set of beliefs require whatever I require to have a comfortable acceptance of the material put forth. Some of the items that you express beliefs in do not even interest me... And so, if they are true or not is not a whit's worth of difference to me. For example, I don't really care if the alligators are in charge. They've never bothered me, nor have they interfered with my life in any discernable fashion... And therefore, they, if they exist, may be doing something right.

Extraordinary claims do not require extraordinary proof. They simply require proof. And that is, as yet, not forthcoming on many of the items that the original poster expressed a belief in. It does not, in fact, require belief. Something like drunken Masons either exist or they do not. All the yelling one way or the other proves nothing. Provide some evidence... Names, addresses, etc. So that someone like myself, a "Fair Skeptic" can check out the claims.

I am here for the truth. I also enjoy laughing at the people who jump on the consiracy bandwagon and also the patriotic fools.

Originally posted by Don Killuminati
There are so many skeptics on this site, and it amazes me.

If you don't believe in the Illuminati then why even join this site?

The "NWO" is a form of animalistic natured fear of the unknown. It's parranoia and boarders on delusional behaviors.

However this isn't to say "secret societies" exist.

However I believe the top aspect of this webstie "Above Top Secret", that being the point right there.

Our Governments (rightly so) classiphy topics for their animalistic parranoia of "National Security".

One such "Above Top Secret" and I'd venture to say the upmost reason this website is devlopped is to try to gain understanding of the UFO and alien phenomenon.

Afterall, forgive me if I am mistaken, but isn't the site's creator a "UFO" examiner?

This site however has nothing to do with Consparicy theories, out side of the mistaken nature of calling "Top Secrets" and the lack of the government coming forth with info about these things Consparicy.

When in the truest nature, it's not any civial person's athority to question what the government wishes to keep tied up under the term "national security". Is it!?!

reply to post by sigung86


I would only continue to disagree with another person. Has nothing to do with this thread.
But just wanted to put that claim out.
If you wanna talk more about it you can start another thread and I'll gladly join !

'' Well then get the heck out of the section, what's the point in debating if you're not gonna believe ANYTHING unless CNN says it's right ? ''

that guy is right..ATS is becoming a personality contest.....when it suppose
to be a intelectual arena.

If someone go ahead and critic the system in any branch of the conspiracy theorys 80% of
ATS members hit on the theory, instead of debating it, to go closer
to the truth with a open, but criticle mind.

All Elites do it......... in Davos meetings and in Bilderberg meetings and in Bohamian Grove meetings
so let do it here, let's have ATS meetings......!
to be as powerfull as elites but on the other side of the fence....

We are suppose to be here, to get all together and be stronger to maybe one day have all conspiracy theory's
under daylight so no system and no corrupted gouvernemnt could abuse
any civilisation anymore........!

LET'S GET OUR SELF SOME STRUCTURED RULES TO SPECIFY HOW WE WILL RESPECT AND DEBATE CONSPIRACY THEORYS.........!

Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by Clan in da front
You're complaing about skeptics? This site would be boring without skeptics. Wouldn't you want to investigate, debate, and learn more by discussion with an other point of view?

I don't think anyone is complaining about skeptics, per se.

Everyone has his or her opinions, beliefs, etc. Keeps life interesting.

My complaint is with individuals like the OP who come on board (supposedly after years of study and a year or so of lurking) and suddenly say:

"This is what I by god believe and if you disagree, you are a disinformation agent (the OP seems fond of that term, using it repeatedly) and not to be believed."

There can be no discussion in an instance like that.

And that sort of situation is after all, the kind ignorance that should be denied here.

I've lurked on this site for awhile, man....LOL do you not believe me or something?



Anyways you all don't understand what I'm saying.




I don't trust any Mason at all. I feel that if you are planning some secret "whatever" you obviously will try to deny it if someone exposes it.
None of you seem to understand why I don't trust any Mason. No, I will not join it, that is a #ing retarded suggestion. I just got done telling you I believe they are corrupt, satanic, part of the Illuminati, etc and you're telling me to join. Wonderful.

Originally posted by Don Killuminati
I've lurked on this site for awhile, man....LOL do you not believe me or something?

LOL, like honestly, man...I don't really care one way or another. You're telling this story.

Anyways you all don't understand what I'm saying.

I concur.

I don't trust any Mason at all. I feel that if you are planning some secret "whatever" you obviously will try to deny it if someone exposes it.

You say "if" so you don't really KNOW that we're [ahem] "planning something" right man?

None of you seem to understand why I don't trust any Mason.

I think I have a pretty good idea.

By the way, I'd bet even money that you KNOW several Masons (probably members of your very own family) whom you do not KNOW are Masons and you DO trust them. Even money.

No, I will not join it, that is a #ing retarded suggestion.

I don't recall asking you to join, and I will NOT ask you to. Frankly I don't WANT you to...but that's just me.

Thanks for the use of the "f" word. Adds a lot to the discussion. (again: )

I just got done telling you I believe they are corrupt, satanic, part of the Illuminati, etc

I'm sure some of us ARE corrupt. Satanic? Well, that's a stretch since the majority of our teachings come from The Holy Bible. Ol' Scratch ain't really fond of that book, ya know man? Illuminati? They're dead. So if any of the Masons are Illuminati, then they're . . . well . . . you know man.

and you're telling me to join. Wonderful.

No. We really wouldn't do that. Honest!

Originally posted by Quazga
Wow thats a huge leap. So anyone who practices defensive techniques has a fundamentally anti-human agenda? Geesh.

No, the huge leap was made by you. Let's take some smaller leaps together and see what I actually said.

1. deception (secrecy) = warfare (aggression).
2. masonry practices deception (secrecy).
3. masonry practices warfare (aggression).

No one keeps a secret that they think has no value. To claim a humanist value system as Masonry does, then keep secret something that they think has at least moral worth, is contradictory in the extreme. Either their secret is worthless or the humanistic morality they publicly espouse is a deception. Or both.

That was the argument in a nutshell. There was more, but that's a start.

Originally posted by DogHead
Either their secret is worthless or the humanistic morality they publicly espouse is a deception. Or both.

The secret, in and of itself, is worthless. Do you really want to know our 'special' handshakes or observe the degree work? Well, you can, sadly, it is all available in numerous forms of media for your consumption. Keeping the secret is the important part as it shows the moral character of the man and his ability to uphold his word and not reveal said handhsakes or degree work.