Let the panic begin? World Markets in free fall

First it's a good thing the u.s markets aren't open today ,because everyone else is and they are taken the biggest beating in a long time.

Asia and Europe as well as South America is down between 3% and 7% in just Today's trading alone.

Europe's FTSE down 4.65% in late trading.

finance.yahoo.com...

Europe's Dax down 6.9% so far

finance.yahoo.com...

Nikkei down 3.75% so far

finance.yahoo.com...

Shanghai composite down 5.15% so far

finance.yahoo.com...

Brazil joins the party down over 5% in one day so far

finance.yahoo.com...

Jim sinclair on Thursday say's the "panic starts"

www.jsmineset.com...,1&AR_T=1&GID=&linkid=5662&T_ARID=5717

and that

Should no emergency action take place soon, you will see an old fashioned panic of the 1929 variety

with these numbers today we are closer to a panic, Tuesday the markets open in the U.S and will likely plunge about 400 points or so (in the open) Cramer says if there is No news of a gov't take over (i.e bailout of Ambac and MBIA) then the markets will lose 2000 points this week. He may be right.

This will be an intresting week for stock markets and you may unfortunately see brokers literally jumping out of buildings.



[edit on 21-1-2008 by cpdaman]

This is really scary. I am totally confused as to what the average person is supposed to do to cushion themselves against this financial crisis. Beyond stockpiling and investments, I am concerned about what real money I have right now. I don't want to lose it or have it be completely devalued and worthless.

In addition to the world stock-market free-fall, here in the UK property prices are starting to tumble, which have for the past decade been a safe-haven for pension-investors burnt by the dot.com boom/bust, now those brave souls who risked the stock market for their pension fund nest-egg are about to get shafted...a real 'head you lose, tails you lose' situation for the aveage joe and his dog

reply to post by citizen smith


Yes. I read either on ATS or elsewhere that as people are trying to mitigate their losses in the UK property market, they are having to wait as much as six months to cash out. This is my concern. Access to your own money.

I am slightly superstitious so I won't say the dreaded words, but it was a hallmark of the Great Depression. On another site I read where some banks are lowering the amount required to file a 'suspicious activity report' for withdrawals to a low as $2000 -2500.

I would love for more knowledgable ATS members to comment on this but I don't want to fuel the fire either. Hysteria is our enemy at times like this.

Panic? Honestly, if everyone is sucking their money out of the system on a global scale, then you'd have to ask where is it going.

It isn't just going to go poof and disappear people, it will resurface.

Ironically, its probably the best time to start investing.

reply to post by Choronzon


You're absolutely right, it's a great time to invest, if you have the resources and the stomach for it.

As far as "Where does the money go?" I ask, "Where did it come from?"
Just churned out by the Fed in a sort of hocus-pocus shell game to hide the reality of a faltering dollar and a failed economic model.

But... I guess many would say it's in your house, my house, a factory in China, Joe Blow's car, etc. But what backs it up? What is the wealth actually built upon? What's the actual value?

Starting to look like not much.

Currency is merely a contract for someone's time. As long as human beings are willing to work, it is not possible for a total global currency collapse.

"Where did it come from?" People slaving away at their jobs. And they will continue to do so, because someone else will continue to pay for it.

I think panic describes accurately what is happening. Investors will ultimately reinvest their moneys elsewhere.

reply to post by citizen smith


UK property prices are way way overinflated anyway. They were due a correction.

I have no sympathy for greedy banks, estate agents and buy to letter's who've fuelled this whole scenario. They are going to loose out (well the banks won't they'll be fine either way) they've only themselves to blame....!

reply to post by Choronzon


That's what I was thinking. When all these markets are reporting losses, that means someone is making/getting money. It isn't like a gallon of milk that goes bad and is written off as a loss. It means people are pulling their money out of the markets. It seems like this is only bad for investors and those with debt - those who are any part of money games.

I live paycheck to paycheck and already have a limit on debit purchases of $200/day, so I doubt this will affect me. I also have a 401k, but have moved all my investments to low-risk stable ones that have thus far over this year not lost anything. The other ones have done poorly and have eaten up all that I have contributed to it in the last 9 months. That just tells me, someone is cashing out and making money off all this.

So where is all this money going? It doesn't just vanish.

Originally posted by Choronzon
Currency is merely a contract for someone's time...

Could not agree more, which is why I think "income" tax is a farce as there has only been an exchange of proportionate value, no added income. But then that's a different thread...

It's not "where all the money is going" that you have to worry about. Money only exists as computer blips these days, so in essence, it doesn't even really exist. But if you dig deeper, you will find that money, such as the Dollar, does not actually represent value, but debt.

Who holds the note on these debts, the international elite. In America, the Rothschilds are represented in the Federal Reserve along with their New World junior partners in the scheme. So to answer cui bono, look to them. Our entire economy is an inflated bubble of debt. When the bubble bursts, imaginary money becomes foreclosure on very real holdings such as precious metals, real estate, food supplies, and even human labor forces. The banksters have no need for monetary gain. That is the sham. The crash of the economy will leave everything we value, and everything on which civilization itself depends, under the private ownership of the elite minority who fooled the world with their brilliantly simple scheme.

To learn what money is and where it comes from, visit Do Not Watch This Video...

To learn more about how Americans quite literally became privately owned, yes the very definition of the word slave, visit the thread A Bigger Picture (Rise of the NWO). Particularly the section referring to the suspension of the US Constitution in 1933.



[edit on 1/21/0808 by jackinthebox]

Best time to start investing? Oh geez good luck to ya

But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march toward a world government. The super-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."

- david rockefeller

what problem would result in a "solution" stated above, where people would react and demand something be done?

the only thing i can think about that would bring the truama necessary for a "NWO" to come about would be a World Economic Financial Collapse. Finance is the backbone of nearly every economy. HELLO?

The bankers organized a crash in 1929, to consolidate power, will the world's elite benefit from doing it again? honestly i don't know

We are talking about the Solvency of banks, they may go bankrupt. You want to take the chance investing in something that may go belly up a few weeks down the road?

They are Panic selling to cover losses. So yes alot of the "money" does disappear because it was never there to begin with except in the "minds of those who guessed what it's value" was based on the confidence investors had in these investments. "Money "supply is over 90% credit (loans punched in on a computer screen) w/ the remaining 10% be thru the printing press. Now that people are losing confidence and defaulting and unable to pay when "bets" go bad, "money" or credit should i say does indeed disapear.

And As Ambac and MBIA are insolvent and are the one's who are supposed to provide insurance for bonds that go under, no one knows where to run. Credit is created literally from thin air, a few punches on a computer screen. It is fractional banking i.e you deposit 10,000 dollars and the bank can lend out 9 times the money you deposited.

So when bank capital experiences a loss. i.e panic selling where people ar only willing to pay 25 cents on the dollar, indeed 75 of the credit (i.e "money") did indeed evaporate. and then banks have to cut back lending by a factor of 9 for every 1 in capital they lose.

This is called credit deflation. For every loser there is not another winner, (unless you consider a winner the person who sold first and got 40 cents on the dollar instead of 20)

The world wide effects of this are rebalancing global currency's w/ the euro falling, and in turn bumping the dollar up a lil bit.


The bankers *may be foreclosing* on people's debt. The american consumer can take on NO MORE debt, the game may be up.

Or the gov't could step in and provide a giant Bail out to AMBAC and MBIA and in which case the economy would stabalize although the dollar and other currency's would continue to fall.

other wise the conditions met for a police state will probably materialize and mass unemployment could result.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by cpdaman]

reply to post by citizen smith


to be honest I can't wait for housing to be affordable by the time I graduate.

Originally posted by cpdaman

This is great time to invest defensively.

As in ammunition?

Wait until March when mortgage reset will happen.

World markets plunge on U.S. fears
# Story Highlights
# Stock markets in Asia and Europe plummet Monday, some with record falls
# Benchmark indicators in India, China, Japan, Hong Kong and Europe all drop sharply
# Fall caused by skepticism about Bush plan to bolster U.S. economy with tax breaks
# Investors feel U.S. stimulus plan is "too little, too late" says CNN's Todd Benjamin

U.S. crisis cannot drag down Russian market
News is from January 17, 2008, 15:18
But what happened today:

Indices
RTS Index 1999.83 -7.38% [18:00]
RTS-2 Index 2518.74 -3.10% [18:00]
Sectoral Indices
RTS – Oil & Gas 246.20 -7.72% [18:00]
RTS – Consumer & Retail 364.22 -2.40% [18:00]
RTS – Metals & Mining 332.66 -6.42% [18:00]
RTS – Industry 417.24 -2.66% [18:00]
RTS – Telecom 289.09 -5.63% [18:00]
RTS – Electric Utilities 438.39 -4.14% [18:00]
RTS – Financials 727.28 -4.07% [18:00]
www.rts.ru...

I see everywhere large hits in world markets. Even happened in Balkan.

The real question you should be asking yourself, is who is pushing this hysteria. They are the ones with something to gain.

reply to post by cpdaman

Final:
Belgium Bel 20 -202.65 -5.48% 3,492.48 1/21 6:07pm
Europe DJ Stoxx -213.17 -6.36% 3,138.48 1/21 7:00pm
Europe Euronext 100 -56.06 -6.28% 836.60 1/21 6:08pm
Europe Euronext 150 -79.72 -5.32% 1,420.08 1/21 6:08pm
France CAC -347.95 -6.83% 4,744.45 1/21 6:10pm
France SBF 80 -285.18 -5.30% 5,092.28 1/21 6:12pm
France SBF 120 -242.43 -6.64% 3,408.12 1/21 6:12pm
Germany DAX -523.98 -7.16% 6,790.19 1/21 6:31pm
Germany MDAX -488.97 -5.80% 7,940.51 1/21 6:31pm
Germany TECDAX -67.02 -8.46% 725.32 1/21 6:31pm
Netherlands AEX -27.63 -6.14% 422.45 1/21 6:07pm
Norway BRIX +12.82 +0.33% 3,910.83 1/21 3:56pm
Norway OSE Industry -37.34 -2.22% 306.53 1/21 5:03pm
Sweden OMX -39.88 -4.16% 917.75 1/21 5:45pm
Sweden OMSX All Share -2.90 -0.93% 310.09 1/18 12:00am
UK FTSE 100 -323.50 -5.48% 5,578.20 1/21 4:35pm
UK FTSE All Shares -158.41 -5.27% 2,845.11 1/21 4:36pm
UK FTSE Eurotop -177.66 -6.18% 2,695.45 1/21 4:45pm
UK FTSE Techmark -63.74 -4.07% 1,501.25 1/21 4:46pm

Always could be worse.

Markets crisis
www.euronews.net...

European shares plummeted suffering their biggest one-day fall since the September 11th terrorist attacks. Most of the major bourses lost around seven per cent of their value. The sell off hammered banks along with oil companies and mining firms as investors were gripped by fears of a recession in the US. Phrases like stock market crisis and climax sell-off are being used.

spellling and added last line.

Yes, thank you for bringing up that information by the several URL links that you posted. In this day and age though, I concur that brokers may have some thoughts that preclude what is going on and refer back to times of the Great Depression. However, also since some people are involved in multi-national coporations I can only conclude that at this time perhaps their opinion is that they would not suffer as much as some of the people will and that today being Martin Luther King's, Jr. Holiday that we may reflect on his important words given back in the Past starting with:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"I have a dream!"

How ironic that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. would save the USA today after the US American government had him killed. Who'd a thunked it.

I wonder what US Americans will do with their George W Bush $800 that's really worth all of 8 cents. Scratch that. It's not even worth 8 cents.

But never mind. Move along, folks, nothing to see here.

The rich get richer through all of this. Time to sieze the Rockefeller fortune and Foundation monies and distribute them to every man, woman, and child who are citizens of the USA.

reply to post by Pellevoisin
Im gonna buy as many gallons of gas I can and sell it next week!!LOL alot! Old George may be dumber than we all thought. Dumping money in the economy is not the desired reaction to recession indicators as it weakens the dollar amount even more,but the more dollars you have to spend to buy something is the more intrest the banks charge for it so maybe it will help them for maybe an hour then our current situation will be multiplied after that. The reserve must be trying to drown out some competion I am not aware of. this is historicaly the motivation of such economic downfalls. Also he may be attempting to prolong the worst until he leaves.