World Markets Plunge - DJIA Futures Down Nearly 500 Points

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

 

Oh, I agree. This is not the second great depression.

People were taking out loans from the banks and investing in the stock market during the 1920s, which isn't happening on the massive scales (or even at all) now.

There'll be a US and maybe a world recession too, but I don't think we should be screaming the end is coming. Yeah, if the finanical system collapsed it would be extremely serious but I think the world (especially the West) would recover in time.

First off:

FUTURES
VALUE CHANGE % CHANGE
Dow 11,592.00 -514.00 -4.25%
S&P 500 1,265.10 -60.20 -4.54%
NASDAQ 1,773.50 -76.00 -4.11%
S&P/TSE 715.20 -31.70 -4.24%
Mexico Bolsa 25,600.00 -1,363.00 -5.06%
Brazil Bovespa 53,850.00 -3,530.00 -6.15%

The markets in America essentially ... tanked ... biggest sell off since 9/11 which is... considerable.

I believe that the signs point to a recession obviously, but importantly, a bigger or longer depression then the one following 9/11.

Of course, a world wide depression is not out of the question ... no one is talking about that yet, but it is apparent that in 2007 we began our decline into a recession, and it is not whether "will the recession come, and when", but instead, the recession is in full force.

The high of the DOW was over 14,000 .. it is currently residing around 11,500 .. nearly a 18% decline. 10% was supposed to be a "correction". Down over 10% from just this year alone ..

Originally posted by AJ Lavender
Jimmyx, as a trader, what do you think about putting my money into gold and other precious metals? Traditionally, as the dollar devalues, the price of gold soars. Would appreciate your thoughts.

I'm not jimmyx, but...last year I was going buy silver and gold (it was around 650/ounce for gold and 11/ounce for silver)...I am KICKING myself for not doing so and selling the gold I inherited from my grandfather (at around 550/ounce!!!!).

Gold may definitely increase, but it is so much already now. Silver is attractive because it is cheaper...for me at least... and you would make more money.

reply to post by aaaauroraaaaa


But you didn't say that, you implied unemployment would increase if the stock market declined, not the other way around

unemployment, recession and sub prime are not just what has effected the markets in Europe and Asia today, it was pure panic.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by infinite]

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by aaaauroraaaaa

 

But you didn't say that, you implied unemployment would increase if the stock market declined, not the other way around

[edit on 21-1-2008 by infinite]

to a point, but don't forget how many people (baby boomers) that have money in the market for retirement.

reply to post by SimonSays

im included in that list by being a contractor in construction work. i had 17 employees until the begining of last year now zero and cant claim unemployment do to being incorpated.

reply to post by Rockpuck


If the finanical system collapses, you see runs on banks and have near to zero world economic growth (just like the great depression) then YES you will see depression.

But the signs do not show a potential mass run on many banks or zero world economic growth.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by infinite]

reply to post by infinite


with all due respect to you..infinite...you are right in your assertions...there is a "but" though...companies that have been profitable and have cash on hand...millions and billions...they put that cash to work and invest it in other profit vechicles. many invest in other companys through corporate bonds etc....what i'm trying to say is this is not limited to "sub-prime" or it would have been pretty much over by now for institutions anyway. not to sound cynical, but loans throughout the world and the collection of interest off of those loans, are the basis for this worlds economy and if nobody is willing to "loan" anymore...that's when the trouble starts and is where we are right now. and the reason few want to loan money out, is nobody trusts the assets held by the borrower for collatural

I can't say for certain that this is the last straw that will cause the worldwide economy to crash.

I will say this much though: Ever since I was a kid I knew life as we know it would cease to exist in my lifetime.

We are not going to have cheap petrochemicals for the rest of our lives. That is reality.

We cannot keep spending and spending, producing waste like we have been doing if we expect to survive any kind of catastrophe whether it be man made of natural.

Keep your mind open and your eyes pealed, it will save your life.

[edit on 1/21/2008 by biggie smalls]

reply to post by SimonSays


Bingo, Simon!
Only this has been going on since 1980, when many workers were laid off and told to either
1) get their old job back, but as a self-employed "consultant" or "contractor"
or
2) get education for another type of employment, usually meaning self-employment, such as going from engineer to pool maintenance business, or manufacturer to opening up a barber shop.

Damn right the small business owner has been forgotten/overlooked in favor of the multinational corporation!

reply to post by jimmyx


I know it's just about sub prime anymore.

The banks do not trust each other, consumers have no confidence and lack of disposable income. Thus our consumer driven economies are coming to a stand still.

Many banks and now insurers are unable to raise capital.

(is an undergraduate in Business)

Ironically, today's lecture was about the stock market.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
If anyone thinks what happens in America stays in america should think again.

I have a question in how long has it been since a market correction and what is considered a correction to a recession? I would think unemployment would be the key indicator.

MY thoughts exactly,

The big guns are manipulating the market

reply to post by AJ Lavender


precious metals always adjust their price to what the WORLD thinks is the individual countries currency value...the united states has lost 30% of it's value, in relation to gold, in the last 2 years, being in silver is a good hedge and gold is too for that matter...however be careful there are people out there that have alot more control over what is valuable then you or i do... by the way gold is down 19 bucks in the futures market today

Originally posted by Realtruth
Does anyone remember my first thread on Predictions 2007? I hope this is not the case, but I believe that out of chaos will come something wonderful.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

My only prediction.

I know the the US stock market will hit 14,000+ mark by the end of the year the market has no reason to be this high, so it will start to slowly fall by early 2008.

In 2008 we will see a massive worldwide economic scandle the started in the USA and will make the dollar crash, in turn the rest of the worlds financial systems will fail. There will be confusion for a few months but out of the ashes will come a new system that is not based on money. I am not sure what this will be but it will happen. I whole new paradigm will come by 2012 it will be in full effect, a golden age and a new way of life.

You got 1 *. Anyway, US $ already crashed in world markets comapred to oil, gold, metals, commodities...

Originally posted by jimmyx
i'm a trader... and i've got everything in cash right now...uncle ben, the fed chairman is between a rock and a hard. massive amounts of "put" options....let's just say if you're thinking of buying stock...you might want to wait for awhile, it's going to get bloody

Helicopter Ben will cut down interest rate very soon.

ok , so if everyone is losing money, who is buying it, i mean you have to sell stock to someone, who is buying it?

where are all these losses going?

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

 

People were taking out loans from the banks and investing in the stock market during the 1920s, which isn't happening on the massive scales (or even at all) now.

Not happening now? What do you think a 401K essentially is? In fact, pound for pound, the U.S. consumer is more invested in the stock market than they have been in any point in modern history. Couple with the fact that millions of Baby Boomers were accelerating investments in 401Ks to "catch up" will now be forced to work longer because their retirement accounts will be worth less than the total invested. And this is beginning to happen now.

There'll be a US and maybe a world recession too, but I don't think we should be screaming the end is coming. Yeah, if the finanical system collapsed it would be extremely serious but I think the world (especially the West) would recover in time.

Yes, we will recover in time. But ask yourself -- at what price? Depending on how serious it gets, we could be looking at radical changes to our country and our way of life, none of which will be any good. The Amero rumor is just one example. The exporting of American blue collar workers to India and China to work as high-skilled, low paid wage earners may be next. Better to live in squalor in India with a paycheck than live in starvation in America.

Are these extreme views? Yes. But they are not out of the realm of possibility.

It is nice [like Borat said]:

Belgium Bel 20 -202.65 -5.48% 3,492.48 1/21 6:07pm
Europe DJ Stoxx -213.17 -6.36% 3,138.48 1/21 7:00pm
Europe Euronext 100 -56.06 -6.28% 836.60 1/21 6:08pm
Europe Euronext 150 -79.72 -5.32% 1,420.08 1/21 6:08pm
France CAC -347.95 -6.83% 4,744.45 1/21 6:10pm
France SBF 80 -285.18 -5.30% 5,092.28 1/21 6:12pm
France SBF 120 -242.43 -6.64% 3,408.12 1/21 6:12pm
Germany DAX -523.98 -7.16% 6,790.19 1/21 6:31pm
Germany MDAX -488.97 -5.80% 7,940.51 1/21 6:31pm
Germany TECDAX -67.02 -8.46% 725.32 1/21 6:31pm
Netherlands AEX -27.63 -6.14% 422.45 1/21 6:07pm
Norway BRIX +12.82 +0.33% 3,910.83 1/21 3:56pm
Norway OSE Industry -37.34 -2.22% 306.53 1/21 5:03pm
Sweden OMX -39.88 -4.16% 917.75 1/21 5:45pm
Sweden OMSX All Share -2.90 -0.93% 310.09 1/18 12:00am
UK FTSE 100 -323.50 -5.48% 5,578.20 1/21 4:35pm
UK FTSE All Shares -158.41 -5.27% 2,845.11 1/21 4:36pm
UK FTSE Eurotop -177.66 -6.18% 2,695.45 1/21 4:45pm
UK FTSE Techmark -63.74 -4.07% 1,501.25 1/21 4:46pm

I forgot Russian markets:
RTS Index 1999.83 -7.38% [18:00]
RTS-2 Index 2518.74 -3.10% [18:00]

[edit on 21-1-2008 by Vojvoda]

Someone asked who was buying and selling

www.taxtyranny.ca...

Look up all you can on this guy

"This group of world leaders forms a secret society to bring about an economic collapse," continued Strong, warming to his fantasy. "It's February. They're all at Davos. These aren't terrorists.

They're world leaders. They have positioned themselves in the world's commodities and stock markets. They've engineered, using their access to stock markets and computers and gold supplies, a panic. Then, they prevent the world's stock markets from closing. They jam the gears. They hire mercenaries who hold the leaders at Davos as hostage. The markets can't close..."

The architect of the Kyoto Protocol.

www.foxnews.com...

China is a special place for Strong, a self-declared, life-long socialist. It is the burial place of a woman said to be one of his relatives, the famous pro-communist American journalist Anna Louise Strong, a vociferous supporter of Lenin and Stalin until the mid-‘30s, and a strong booster of Mao Zedong’s China. Maurice Strong’s presence in Beijing, however, raises awkward questions: For one thing, China, while one of the world’s biggest producers of industrial pollution, has been profiting from the trading of carbon emissions credits – thanks to heavily politicized U.N.-backed environmental deals engineered by Strong in the 1990s.

[edit on 023131p://bMonday2008 by Stormdancer777]

Tomorrow we are gonna get hit hard Ive been calling it for awhile on other threads and its gonna happen tomorrow. I hope you all have some canned goods set aside

reply to post by Stormdancer777


storm...unemployment used to be a problem...not anymore, at least for the wealthy...actually for the wealthy...the larger the unemployed number the better..people will take any job and work any hours for any pay driving UP profits for the wealthy. i'm afraid to say this is why a government by the people is so important. it is to protect the COMMONS, the wealthy have always been protected

after 911 bush needed money for war raised property values increase taxes. raising credit for the masses increased credit lower interest rates ,why not buy a new home and sell the old one. investors see chance to make money. housing boom! new house need new stuff to go in it. credit card boom! what do we do to fill al these old houses now. illegal amenisty! american people stopped the amensty. stopped the next boom a doubling of stores one for spainish one for english. amensty boom would of kept things going but whats happening cant be stopped by manipulation any more . so best thing to do is like bush family buy a couple hundred thousand acres in south america and move while the gettings good. south america is the next place to grow. and the politcians here in u.s. know it. the rest of us are screwed just look at value of u.s. currency compared to canadian currency. see anything interesting last ten years or so u.s. currency fell sharply compared to canadian currency. south american currency will be next to rise as other currency around the world come down with the american dollor. you have chaves right now trying to become rich hes thearting neibourging country today with a take over due to there oil and gold. most new billionares and millionares are coming from south america. look for a rise in south america if your looking for where to put your money. but beware there all currupt just like bush.