World Markets Plunge - DJIA Futures Down Nearly 500 Points

reply to post by Cynic


That will be a good way to see things but as you have noticed by the way of our political system and our corporate ruled nation it doesn't matter who will raise to be president we are not longer a nation for the people and by the people but for corporate rule and by corporate rule.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

 

The question is how willing are these foreign nations investing in US allowed to lose as long as they get a firm hold of the US economy.

I think that for them owning mighty America worth every penny of it.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by marg6043]

I think 5 or 10% of nothing is still nothing and the Chinese know this. I think they're buying a little time to get themselves in order. There are still restrictions on how much other countries can own in these Banks. That's why you see the loans to Citi, etc. right at that limit.

The main problem for them is not dumping the Dollar, it's how to do it under the Radar. Like I said earlier, The last one out of a Fiat Currency loses the most. So they're sneaking around trying not to attract attention so someone else gets screwed worse. Underhanded is the name of the Game here.

Today is some bad news in the markets at the opening bell so I wonder how much the fed is going to lower to fix once again the numbers.

They are supposed to come out and talk in about 3 hours.

Fed cut 50 bps and then the market had a bi-polar reaction

first elation, then massive selling (down 250 in last 45 minutes from highs) to finish day down about 40. however markets were temporarily overbought from i think 4 days of profits.

now to the SERIOUS BUSINESS

from www.marketoracle.co.uk...

According to the Federal Reserve Board website , U.S. non-borrowed bank reserves have gone from $37B to $199M (nope, that's not a typo) in the last month. We have been discussing this with Sitka Pacific Capital's Mike ‘Mish' Shedlock for the last two weeks. He concludes: “Banks in aggregate have now burnt through all of their capital and are forced to borrow reserves from the Fed in order to keep lending.” Simply put, the U.S. banking system has no reserves. In addition, the FDIC has recently begun modernizing large-bank insurance rules . We hope this is a wake-up call to everyone as to the extent of the credit crisis. Bank account balances should be used only for transactions. Instead cash should be held in the form of U.S. Treasury Bills at a conservative brokerage or trust. Under the mattress is also perfectly acceptable (your parents or grandparents had to do it!).

so non-borrowed bank reserves went from 37 billion to 199 million or in other more descriptively comparable words from 37,000 million to 199 million. YIKES!

Originally posted by cpdaman
Fed cut 50 bps and then the market had a bi-polar reaction

first elation, then massive selling (down 250 in last 45 minutes from highs) to finish day down about 40.

i think the massive sell off was because the fund managers, and investment banks, along with the daily traders wanted to 'shake the money tree'....

the thoughtful investors finally, after the initial exhuberance, considered that a falling Fed rate will translate into a weaker dollar overseas, and commodities like oil & gold will cost more...
the USD (fed note) is going to fall through the 72 support level and on a 'best day' might climb back up to a 76 confidence level...


as the song goes....-> gloom, dispare, agony on me....deep dark depression, excessive misery, if it weren't for bad luck, i'd have no luck at all.....
(from 'Hee Haw' show)

reply to post by St Udio


Thats OK Udio we got the government to help us the consumers with their stimulus package.

That is the gift to us from the bottom of their greedy harts.

My daughter is telling me that in the bank were she works is been an increased of savings bonds as old as back in the 70s that has been cash out by their owners, God figure what they needs or the scare may be to be doing this now.

But people get scare and people will do anything to protect the littler investments they have, I mean regular joes not the rich and wealthy.

Originally posted by marg6043


My daughter is telling me that in the bank were she works is been an increased of savings bonds as old as back in the 70s that has been cash out by their owners, God figure what they needs ....

i think the redemptions are because these people want thewir accumulated cash, before it gets even less valuable,

there's also the problem of many banks' & their solvency...
many banks are bellying up to the Fed discount window because they are essentially insolvent... meaning they haven't enough cash to pay their depositors and CD holders,

and If you think the FDIC insurance of your CD or savings/checking account will be honored forthwith.....dream on

the Federal Home Loan Bank (FHLB) has first dibbs on that FDIC money
(which i've read is about $85 Billion),
saving & checking accounts at member banks are the last on the list for
reimbursement
whenever there's a run on a bank or a bank declares bankruptcy.

and if more than one or two banks fold in the same week, then even the whole $85 Billion would not be near enough to pay off the claims



take care

[edit on 31-1-2008 by St Udio]

Major rating agencies are holding off downgrading bond insurers MBIA and Ambac Financial Group while they attempt to work out a bailout plan, bankers working on the bailout told CNBC.
States and cities that issue municipal bonds, meanwhile, could see their own bonds downgraded because of questions about the insurers' ability to back up those bonds.
Banks could also be hit. According to Meredith Whitney, banking analyst at Oppenheimer, U.S. financial institutions could face fresh write-downs of as much as $70 billion if the bond insurers lose their top rating.
For that reason, the issue of downgrading bond insurers has become politically sensitive.

www.cnbc.com...

These Rating Agencies are putting themselves up for future litigation. When the collapse of these bond insurers happens, they will be held to account. Since it was their job to keep ratings up to date.

As the piece goes on to say, Documentation has been turned over to the SEC claiming that both insurers are grossly understating losses. Which could be as much as 12 Billion each.

I find it fascinating that whenever the market goes down, everyone cheers and talks about how the economy is horrible and its the end, etc.

When the market goes up, no one talks about it or tells us its all lies and is fixed.

Which is it? Geez. Be consistent. Some people are so blinded by political ideology and the desperate need to have a disaster...

reply to post by LightinDarkness


It's the fundamentals! They haven't changed. I wouldn't depend on Wall Street to see what's coming. Their Bipolar behaviour of late says it all. They don't know what the hell is going on. I mean, what was it, a 600 point wild swing the other day and something akin to it today.

The Economic news is plain to see. Housing, unemployment, etc. The market is a poor indicator of what's really going on. After all, it's what they do! Of course they're gonna look for reasons to invest in something, anything. It's really all they have. It's Denial.

Wild swings speak to me of uncertainty. That and the mistrust and opacity in the Banks says it all. The Sheep won't know till they've run off the cliff. The Street is just a side show IMO.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


The markets don't exactly relate to the average citizen Light.. the markets can go up all they want.. imo, we have been sliding into a recession for about 9 months now.. Last April being the height of the bull economy.

Just because the MARKETS go up... does not mean our pay checks do.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Yes I have been following this story also, one of the things that bothers me is how much emphasis is to show that the scandal behind this companies could rival Enron but so far not charges of any kind has been brought up.

Some financial analyst has been talking about how the FDIC seems to know about the deception and corruption behind all this but they claim to be powerless when it comes to regulate this companies.

I don't get it, this one of the reason the markets are in the toilet and I can not believe that nobody is been hold accountable.

At least they didn't lose as much as their customers. The stock market is in distress, bond insurers are looking for a $200 billion bailout, junk-bond markets are at risk of further losses and life-, home- and auto insurers' risk has not yet been fully assessed.

www.marketwatch.com... ostRead

I find appalling that while the FED is bailing this corporation out they have not problem screwing more our economy and the people of this nation.

The Fed's rate cuts are only bandages. They'll succeed at weakening the U.S. dollar against foreign currencies, and that encourages foreign governments to buy American institutions at fire-sale prices. That can't be good for America.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


This is true, but nevertheless this entire thread was started over a stock market drop. Yet no new ones were started when it goes up. In this thread, you can pinpoint on days it drops people are very excited and talk about impending doom. On the days it goes up, either no one says anything or someone chimes in to say the reason why its going up is based on a lie.

If the "fundamentals" were truly one sided, it'd be going down or up all the time - if the stock market moved based on such things only. But it doesn't - it moves in part based on the hysteria or euphoria (rare) the mass media instills in investors.

Rock:

I would argue that increasingly the stock market is important to the tons of people who have retirement accounts. True, it is not a good measure of the economy - and people should not use it as such - but the emotional hysteria that accompanies the stock market does help drive the price point and makes people with those retirement accounts do things they regret later.

The reverse is also true: just because the markets go down does not mean your paycheck goes down and it is not cause for the mass hysteria people love so much thanks to the mass media.

On another note:

It says a lot about how good off we have it when last quarters 0.6% GDP growth is decried as impending doom by the mass media. In any other country, they'd be dancing on the rooftops. In america? It means the end is nigh.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


For some of us that has been following the scene behind the entire market blow out we are not relying on the markets good days as a sign of strength rather just a vicious cycle of bailing out by the FED and all those working to keep the illusion of prosperity alive.

The problem in the markets is of bigger proportions because is link to corruption and greed and financial companies involved are just covering their greedy butts while people are losing their American dreams.

nice this thread is back at the "top of the pile"

ok so never underestimate the surprises that may happen when the combined leverage and influence of a ex-goldman sachs "goon". (hank paulson treasury secretary), a ivy league professor who has a personal library of self written monetary policy paper's regarding extreme financial distress and the creative measures he will take to pull out all the stops (despite the long term damage and zero gaurantee this will actually work in the end) i.e Ben Bernanke, and a multi-natinonal elite possibly conspiring to bring about a world government as a solution to some sort of problem in which they likely orchestrated and profited off in the first place.

reply to post by marg6043


There are many people following the markets "behind the scenes" - and I'd dare say a majority are not predicting financial armageddon. If the stock market means nothing, then why do you keep contributing to this thread?

I do not buy into your populism. I know you like it, and so do others, but I don't think the world is that simple. My world is much more complex, and this whole "the rich are greedy and the poor are victims" mentality doesn't reflect the world in my view.

Its especially funny because what caused this cyclical recession this time around was everyones fault. The "poor and middle class" for stupidly buying houses they couldn't afford, and the "rich"for giving them the loans. But I note you blame it all on the greedy rich.

Again, populism at its finest.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


At least we are following the news that links the corruption to be scandals to the financial institutions that has brought (and this a fact) or nation's economy to its knees.

I guess that while I enjoy some of your post I see nothing else of importance to this thread coming from them anymore.

Sorry for bringing this to you but it does get tiresome after a while.

Still I am in not position what so ever to tell you what to post or not and I will never even try to change your point of view or you mind on the matter in this thread so as usual you are welcome to post as you wish we will just carry on with the matter at hand.

[edit on 31-1-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


Interesting, I am following the news that links the all of this to stupid subprime lenders. But again, your populism blinds your worldview so you cannot conceive of anything more than "rich = evil and greedy, poor = good and victims." I think you offer an interesting opinion but I see nothing else of importance to this thread coming from you anymore, its all the same populism tag line.

Sorry for bringing this to you but it does get tiresome after a while.

I do not usually check on this thread because any attempts to point out the rampant populism or the absolute lack of reasoning of decrying downturns in the stock market as "financial doom" and upturns as "lies" gets responses like this. Its better to let you guys all agree with each other. The "matter at hand" is confirming what you want to hear, "rich = evil and greedy, poor = good and victims."

I only wish the world were that simple. But if it needs to be so for you, carry on!

reply to post by LightinDarkness


I do get what your saying, brother, 100% ..

especially about retirement...

I deal with retirement accounts daily, and I know that for the past 2 quarters.. most of my clients have been suffering big time (especially lower to mid middle class) ... the rate cuts lower the percentage gains on secure investments (like CD's, Annuities, Savings, etc) so when you try and persuade a 65 year old man to take his 100k dollars out of the market and into a savings vehicle .... its nothing but opposition! .. All because rates fall... And I can guarantee you next quarter they will be bitching AGAIN that they lost 1k or so from their retirement which they cannot add into anymore! ..

So the markets rising, rates being cut.. its not for the little investor (if your not investing a million dollars.. the companies don't give a rats arse about you.. trust me.) .. its for the big banks, the huge corporations who made faulty investments.

Is the economy doom and gloom? .. for the past 9months, I would say we have been entering a recession .. is it going to be a depression? Doubt it..

However..

some countries.. that are SERVICE nations to BIGGER nations (I always love to use Ireland as an example..) Ireland, being a service nation to larger economies (Russia, England, America, etc..) is ALREADY officially in a recession .. there is no turning it around, the Irish markets have fallen to Recession levels, the housing market collapsed, and the nations largest ... I said LARGEST and most lucrative employers (Intel for example, and Dell Computers) are ready to slash employees... and not only that, some companies like Intel are actually considering CLOSING the entire national operation and moving to cheaper countries like India.. But Ireland is not alone, many small countries are already feeling the pain, because when the big boys stop growing, stop spending, stop needing production, its the service nations like Ireland that suffer first, and suffer the most.

Its not an American issue, its a world wide issue.. we got some bad news today, and stocks jumped through the roof.. odd? This is not the end.. the economy is in trouble.. not praising Armageddon .. its just... reality. I pray for a stronger economy, because that means I am better off.. you don't suppose I would love to struggle to buy eggs and bread?

reply to post by LightinDarkness

If the stock market means nothing, then why do you keep contributing to this thread?

For my part it is because the Market is just the reactionary mechanism which brings all the Fraud into the view of the Majority you spoke of. Albeit to late. Yet, it is important to shine the light on the causes, because people want to know why their retirements are being ripped off and Bond yields are going negative, etc. Even with the Fed's twisted CPI data inflation is already above the interest rate.