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World Markets Plunge - DJIA Futures Down Nearly 500 Points

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posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Thanks for the link, I am just speculating about who and how the markets are keep afloat right now.



common now, your overlooking the PPT [Plunge Protection Team]

i'd guestimate they spent $10s of Billions of 'Dollars' ( more correctly they should be named; FRNs,,as in federal reserve notes)
for the fascade of a market "recovery"

Excellent turn-around, from some 300 points down to almost 300 points Up
~snicker~




posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio
your overlooking the PPT [Plunge Protection Team]



Exactly what i was thinking, they seem to do anything to save confidence. Can the public find out if it was this group, i assume not.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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If they did have such a thing then it would definitely have the impact to sway the herd in an upward direction at their will. I try to steer away from too many conspiracies though....they tend to make one paranoid


All of this buying and selling is just herd mentality reactionary behavior. With the storm clouds that are looming on this economy I see no valid reason why anyone would want to heavily invest in the markets or in real estate for the immediate future. We are nowhere near a bottom for either.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by St Udio
your overlooking the PPT [Plunge Protection Team]



Exactly what i was thinking, they seem to do anything to save confidence. Can the public find out if it was this group, i assume not.



hey guy, you should have jumped in...
but i do understand that the first poster/replyer gets their personal 'atta-boy'...
but that does not make someone who was 2 seconds behind a 'johnny-come-lately' ~as the saying goes~!

that 2-10-100 second delay means only that 'we' were on the same wave-length... there's actually dozens or hundreds of others who share our sentiments..... but choose not to 'fess-up'

nice to meet you...



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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Muchisimas Marg, you're too kind. There aren't that many experts in this game, and I'm definitely not one of them. Through a mix of trial, error and research, I've been able to isolate a few...I simply follow their lead.

I do wish Gools & Jefwane would post-up more often



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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Hey everybody. Listen carefully. Today was the bottom. The double test and then rally off yesterday's lows is a very reliable indicator. I truly believe that we have seen the lows in the markets for our lifetimes.

The fed cut with further cuts to come will bail out the housing market. Mortgage payments will once again become cheaper than rent. The goverment will step in guaranteeing lower caliber mortgages, and will make sure these folks can get a rate that allows them to keep paying back their loans. For those already in trouble, the $2500 per household will allow them time to get back on their feet.

The banks now have access to super cheap money which will allow them to lend it at quite profitable spreads thus making back much of their losses. They will also start being much more free with that money. All the mortgages sitting in the trash bin, will once again regain a decent amount of their value (after all they are backed by properties). Coprorations will do well as the stimulus package will multiply throughout the economy.

All in all, despite all our surface problems, the real reason for stocks declines were lack of confidence. As the days and weeks go by confidence will only grow and grow.

Just remember that optimisn is the only true reality.

For everyone afraid to buy stocks, mark this down someone where you will not lose it. "On Jan 23, 2008 the Dow Jones was at 12,270 and i didn't buy stocks." Put it away and look at it again in 5 YEARS. I think at that point you will never make the same mistake again.

Americans corporations are SOLID! Buy!



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
 


Thanks for that confident post, I like to play devils advocate once in while, I think we may have some more market woes before is over.

Now my husband refuse to look into his portfolio right now because he doesn't want to see the mess it is right now.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio

Originally posted by marg6043

Thanks for the link, I am just speculating about who and how the markets are keep afloat right now.



common now, your overlooking the PPT [Plunge Protection Team]

i'd guestimate they spent $10s of Billions of 'Dollars' ( more correctly they should be named; FRNs,,as in federal reserve notes)
for the fascade of a market "recovery"

Excellent turn-around, from some 300 points down to almost 300 points Up
~snicker~



Absolutely, I believe it's called Monetizing Debt. Bad Idea, I guess greed never learns.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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I'm following the plunge as-well.

Looks like a few sectors have rebounded back upwards, at least temporarily.
However, knowing the volatility of markets, this could just be a fluctuation on it's way continuing downward.

We now have to worry about the masses of 'dumb' investors, who inherently sell low and buy high. There's ALOT of them out there, and the next few days will be greatly affected by these people.

I would like to be hopeful that a recession is not in the winds, but I know better.

I just hope I've done what I can to protect myself during all this.

If in doubt, I have access to a British passport, which enables me to work in many other countries. I have my way out... I suggest you all plan for the worst, and hope for the best.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
 


Thanks for that confident post, I like to play devils advocate once in while, I think we may have some more market woes before is over.

Now my husband refuse to look into his portfolio right now because he doesn't want to see the mess it is right now.


Your husband is a smart man. Looking at your portfolio everyday, especially stocks, will make you highly emotional and will make you do things that later on you wished you had not. As a investment advisor I do watch the markets everyday and can testify that my personal accounts perform worse than my clients accounts(more trading oriented), most of whom rarely ever open their statements or even call.

Investing is a long term journey. For someone coming out of college, most likely a 70+ year journey. To be successful and reach your financial goals you must have a long term investment plan and you must stick with it no matter how bad the outlook.

This happens every 6 years or so and everytime people scream that the end is near. Those who have resisted such calls and went against the prevailing wisdom were greatly rewarded in the following years and decades. I do not think it will be any different this time.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 08:22 PM
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Looking at the Dow adjusted for inflation really opened my eyes. It took till the 60's to get back to the 1929 level. Just a shell game IMO. Inflation (monetizing debt) will take a disgusting toll on peoples retirement savings (401k).



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
Looking at the Dow adjusted for inflation really opened my eyes. It took till the 60's to get back to the 1929 level. Just a shell game IMO. Inflation (monetizing debt) will take a disgusting toll on peoples retirement savings (401k).


You are mssing the dividends paid during that period. For much of the period those alone were greater than inflation and if they were reinvested you made a very excellent return over those years.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
 


Yes, but when you monetize debt, you are stealing from everyone. Peoples savings become worth less when you print money out of thin air. Which is what the 'fed' is doing at an alarming rate. How can that be justified? It is very simply Taxation Without Representation and this nation was born from that Outrage!



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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what a fun day huh?

tremendous rally today , but i have to admit this tells you how desperate the markets was are now , that it got a 600 point bounce on news that a plan to bailout or better yet provide "a floor" on prices for bonds backed by MBIA and AMBAC amongst others, this gave investors some hope which (judging by the bounce) they have latched onto, but when times are desperate you are willing to believe what ever it takes.

Reading thru a couple blog's that i respect i get the idea that their is no way in hell that the banks they are talking to can provice enough capital to fund this bailout, so it will fall on the fed's if not this week, eventually, cause these bond insurance writers have further pain coming up , i'd like to say that commercial realestate is also .ed for deep poo-poo and i understand that these same bond insurance comps. have exposure here.


what will be required is that The federalie's step in ......and by that i mean the government....and i'm not so such they will act in time, and i don't know enough to determine how that will effect the market. For instance should MBIA and AMBAC be downgraded the market will plunge, and when the government say's "ahhh i guess this is not only wall street's problem, they may decide to step in for matter's of "national security". should they give about 1000 billion to back these bad boys up that will not be w/o consequences. for instance inflation would rise and long term intrest rates would probably as well. Now if the gov't bails them out after they are downgraded the rating agency's would then likely raise their ratings, so perhaps holders of this bond debt would not have panic sold (since they wouldn't have got anything) and the markets would boune and that would be great news

also there are more problems past this one.


edit: the option i think will happen is that the federal reserve combined with the us treasury is prepared to pay out the insurance should/when the mega bond defaults start overwhelming whatever the monolines can't handle (if they aren't downgraded) and that the effect this would have again is massive inflation for the little guy and middle guy which would be soaring prices for all goods and probably soaring gold prices as well. Only time will tell,but i tell you this, it will not be pretty.



[edit on 24-1-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 11:29 PM
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So the latest amazing save was the result of a few of bankers meeting with insurance regulators in an effort to save their counterpartying behinds...but no details yet. Not until after today's 'rescue' did I hear MSM talk openly about the trillions in credit derivatives associated with these insurance providers...it was usually 'billions' in municipal monoline coverage. Now the true depth of the problem is more-or-less public. When the pixie-dust settles...more will be revealed as regulators rummage through these trash bins. Systemically, not much has changed...and the legal repercussions alone could cost these monolines billions. The authorities have no realisitic alternatives...the Dollar will be burned-at-the-stake.

I happened across these S&P500 chart patterns from; 1930, 1962, 1987, and lastly...2008. I think they explain Ben's recent demeanor in front of the congressional committee...the stimulus package...the emergency .75 rate cut, and today's 'working group' activities. When I tuned into CNBC this afternoon...I could cut the euphoria with a knife. Pump-it till your pants fall-off...and with good reason it seems.




posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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OBE 1 many feel that AMBAC and MBIA are too big to fail and that the domino's that fall should that happen would trigger a collapse in the financial system

it seems like the treasury dept w/ the fed are the only one's with the pocksets and money creation abilities to insure these bonds against wide spread default.

only problem is the result will be rising inflation (fast rising inflation) and that is if they pull this off......if not this will create a DEFLATIONARY force not seen in anyone's life time.

here is one economist's take , the best read on the subject to date from doug noland.....enjoy and learn (like i'm trying to do)

www.atimes.com...

i will link anything else this guy type's up.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by cpdaman
 


cpdaman...thanks for the Noland link. Another pro with vision is Sinclair. I began faithfully reading JS in 2005 when I took a core position in his Tanzanian Jr. He was warning about the coming derivatives crisis back then & before. Subsequently, I've swallowed a-lot of dust just trying to hang-on to his coattails...it gets pretty crowded back there
The situation is unfolding pretty much according to his play-book.

For snickers & grins here's George Soros' editorial from today's Financial Times: The worst market crisis in 60 years


Edit: I see that DD just started a Soros thread while I was fumbling over my keyboard. Sorry. Please post any responses there


[edit on 24-1-2008 by OBE1]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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What will be interesting will be the state of the union effect on the stock market and the January 30 meeting. From Wall Street, they say there's a 122% chance of a .5% cut and 80% of a .75.... another .75 and you might see a huge sell off of US dollars, causing a depression.

My brother work in a bank, he saw that people are trying to take their money from the bank but his boss forbid him to allow those procedures... my mother don't know what to do with her pension fund that going bankrupt.... people are going to be freaking angry when they realise that their pension funds are ALREADY WIPED OUT.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by Vitchilo]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 09:51 AM
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OBE 1 i will check out Sinclair thanks , does he give any predictions lately as to how this will play out, like the municipal bonds being backed up by the fed, with ever thing else falling thru and getting market or market

here is a forum where a discussion amongst market savvy individuals digest and give their own take on the situation

www.tickerforum.org...

EDIT: everyone needs to googe jim and read his posts

in a nutshell (from what i can gather) The fed and the PPT are sitting over something that is so huge it could take down the financial system, HOWEVER they will not let that happen, sooo their is no stimulus too large that they will attempt, and do everything in their power to support the stock market, and that other investors (the "big money" see this) and that this is going to take GOLD prices to the moon.

Also he infers that this will be a temporary band-aid( at the cost of inflation) and a loss of foreign faith in the U.S and that this will only lead to something bigger toward 2011 (some kind of finanical day of wreckoning) although things will not be exactly smooth sailing till we get their either.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Jan, 24 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by OBE1
 


Boy of boy, I read the views by Sorus and this his second one this week.


We hope things are looking brighter but is nothing but a bandaid.

More about everyday American life and its economy woes,

Service Economy Blues...

www.wacotrib.com...

What the panicked congress doesn't want you to know

Juicing the economy will come at a cost
Boosting economic growth is great, but it's not free and it's not guaranteed. Lawmakers need to weigh the cost of any stimulus package with its benefits.


money.cnn.com...

A Stimulus to What? Delusions Prevail in Washington


With his tax rebate policy, President Bush has put economic policy back on a Keynesian basis. Will it work?


www.economyincrisis.org...



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