German historian Compares Tom Cruise to Nazi Propaganda Minister

German historian Compares Tom Cruise to Nazi Propaganda Minister

afp.google.com

Respected German historian Guido Knopp has compared a speech by US actor Tom Cruise to the Church of Scientology with a call to war by Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels.

A German historian has compared a speech by actor Tom Cruise about Scientology to a call to war by Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 20-1-2008 by bakednutz]

Im not sure how the church of scientology continues to get the respect it does in the US when people in Germany look at it and instantly recognize it as a cult/criminal organization? People need to know the truth about scientology.

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(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by bakednutz


Im not sure how the church of scientology continues to get the respect it does in the US when people in Germany look at it and instantly recognize it as a cult/criminal organization? People need to know the truth about scientology.

afp.google.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

It's a religion. Why do you hate it so much?

Why do you listen to the propaganda from Germany that associates it with the Nazi's?

The "Mission Impossible" star is seen asking fellow members of the church: "Should we clean this place up?"

What's wrong with "cleaning this place up?" Everyone on ATS knows that the world is polluted, immoral, and corrupt. I see people here posting all the time about cleaning this place up by trying to expose the NWO and corrupt governments.

Cruise's portrayal in "Valkyrie" of Nazi resistance hero Claus Schenk von Stauffenberg, an aristocrat who led a failed plot to assassinate Adolf Hitler in 1944, has caused unhappiness in Germany because of the actor's links to Scientology.

Is that rational?

The movement is often described here as a sect that exploits its members financially. In December, regional ministers agreed to investigate the possibility of banning it.

I could see this happening. Credit card companies exploit their members financially too, perhaps we should ban them. No, this isn't about banning something because of financial exploitation.

The world is turning into the NWO of thought control and speech/religious restriction under your nose - and you like it - on the guise of Holocaust denying, false hate crimes, homegrown terrorism, illegal political dissent, and Religions that people don't agree with.

It's all stuff you can happily get onboard with, and if you are looking for your slippery slope, look no further.

You are already on board, and from what I've seen on ATS most other people are too.

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Originally posted by bakednutz


Im not sure how the church of scientology continues to get the respect it does in the US when people in Germany look at it and instantly recognize it as a cult/criminal organization? People need to know the truth about scientology.

afp.google.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

It's a religion. Why do you hate it so much?

Why do you listen to the propaganda from Germany that associates it with the Nazi's?

Scientology is not a religion in any bona fide sense, not in terms of history, origins, purpose or behaviour. I don't think most people "hate" it, they just know in an immediate common sense way that its leaders are evil manipulative scum and its rank and file are mind control subs.

And as for Germans and Nazis- who the hell else is as big an expert on these topics than the country that fell under EXACTLY this sort of vile spell decades ago? You don't think that might have given them a qualification or two to detect mind control, devil worship and total nihilistic anti-human movements?

reply to post by benign.psychosis


Well sir, I think DogHead pretty much answered your questions the way I would have!

Originally posted by DogHead

Scientology is not a religion in any bona fide sense, not in terms of history, origins, purpose or behaviour. I don't think most people "hate" it, they just know in an immediate common sense way that its leaders are evil manipulative scum and its rank and file are mind control subs.

You're points hold little weight.

It is a new religion, so it does not have much history, and origins go hand in hand with it's history. Buddhism and Taoism for example do not follow the same structure, behavior, or have the same purpose as Christianity, Judaism, or Islam.

You may hold the opinion that its leaders are evil and manipulative if you wish.

It does not change the fact that Athiests view religions such as christianity manipulative in that they fool people into believing that an almighty god created the heavens and the earth, or that there is a heaven and a hell, or that all of humanity started with Adam and Eve in a garden.

It also doesn't change the fact that catholic priests have been known to molest children. That is pretty evil and vile if you ask me.

Why don't you start a petition for Germany to ban Catholicism too? Do you think you've heard the last case of Child molestation by a priest?

How about Islam? Their religion promotes a Holy war against the Infidels and is the basis for some "terrorist" attacks.

Why not the Jewish religion too? It claims that they are the "Master Race" in no uncertain terms.

Most religions have a mythology that can not be proven, their own set of morals and guidelines, and they create a system so that people fall in line with themt. Scientology is no different in that regard...

Do you have any evidence of criminal scientologists, or do you just not like the religion?

Do you have any evidence of criminal Catholics, or do you just chose to ignore it?

And as for Germans and Nazis- who the hell else is as big an expert on these topics than the country that fell under EXACTLY this sort of vile spell decades ago? You don't think that might have given them a qualification or two to detect mind control, devil worship and total nihilistic anti-human movements?

No, I don't think it gives them qualification. If Germany is experienced and feels as guilty as some would suggest, then they are liable to operate on a knee-jerk emotional reaction towards such things.

This is the same reason why you don't put a rape victim on the jury of a rape trial. Do you understand?

What vile spell do you speak of? Scientology, or restriction of speech and religion?

Devil worship? Satanism is also a valid religion that many people follow. Do you want to ban that one too?

So far you only appear to be intolerant of other peoples' right to practice whichever religion they choose.

Originally posted by bakednutz
reply to post by benign.psychosis

 

Well sir, I think DogHead pretty much answered your questions the way I would have!

That is disapointing. I wonder, has Scientology ever started a war that killed millions?

Has it done anything at all to compare to it?

Or do you just have some time of hateful anti-scientologist agenda?

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

This is the same reason why you don't put a rape victim on the jury of a rape trial. Do you understand?

What vile spell do you speak of? Scientology, or restriction of speech and religion?

Devil worship? Satanism is also a valid religion that many people follow. Do you want to ban that one too?

So far you only appear to be intolerant of other peoples' right to practice whichever religion they choose.

A rape victim might make a poor juror- and might not- in a non-fascist society we would interview the juror rather than make an unilateral decision for them and THEN decide...

Religion: some definitions:

The Concise Oxford Dictionary (1990):
"Human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience"

Webster's New World Dictionary (Third College Edition):
"any specific system of belief and worship, often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy."

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament) + -iōn- -ion; cf. rely]

So can we agree that a ruthless moneymaking enterprise founded by a mythomonomaniac and indulging in practices that result in a constant stream of criminal prosecutions is going to be struggling to fall under this definition?

Scientology didn't even have any interest in pretending to be a religion until a slew of court cases indicated how incredibly useful such a revolting deception would be.

For the record, I have no time for any organised religion that tries to use its status or its claimed religious tenets as excuses for bad behaviour. Scientology is a soggy mess of sufferers, the megalomaniacal deformed personalities at the top leading a circus of horrors that the medieval Catholic Church would have been proud of.

L. Ron Hubbard was a systematic pervert and liar of the first order whose claimed military career did not reflect reality and whose questionable literary skills are a fitting testament both to his deranged views and his satyriac passions.

Scientology bleating about freedom of speech is very much the same as Nazis praying that we follow our own due process when prosecuting them, doing them the courtesy as human beings they never showed their opponents. Likewise Scientologists. The treatment of the South Park creators for example- funny how freedom of speech took a distant back seat THEN, isn't it? Hypocrites one and all.

And whatever one's definition of religion, Scientology glaringly fails to do one service to the community that even the most awful of the real religions provide: charity to the poor.

Here's the first seven links to a google search of "scientology evil":

Scientology's Crimes

scienTOMogy.com

The Evil of Scientology

What Judges Say About Scientology

religionnewsblog | Scientology: The church regarded as an evil cult

Understanding Scientology | A New Face of Evil

The eighth hit leads us back to a thread here on ATS:

Conspiracies in Religions » The Evil's of Scientology





[edit on 21-1-2008 by goosdawg]

And the clincher for Scientology is NOT a religion:

A religion can't have "trade secrets". What a revolting and materialistic worldview is revealed by these cold-blooded sociopaths.

"the sworn testimony of Warren McShane, president of Religious Technology Center, in civil action no. 95-B-2143, Religious Technology Center v. F.A.C.T.Net, Inc., et al., U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

24 A The very first tab under Tab No. 1. You can see there are
25 references to the Galactic confederation, 76 planets, but

page 229
1 within that there is information on what are called incidents
2 that you see there, Your Honor, in parentheses. Those itself
3 are trade secret. Any descriptions in that first page which
4 actually described what happened to the individual himself is
5 a trade secret.
6 But it may be easier to explain what's not. The
7 discussion of the -- of the volcanoes, the explosions, the
8 Galactic confederation 75 million years ago, and a gentleman
9 by the name Xemu there. Those are not trade secrets. The
10 officers mentioned there are not. But the -- the parts in
11 there that actually described what happened to the individual
12 and how to handle it, especially when it goes onto page 2 from
13 that point forward, that is trade secret.
14 Q Everything thereafter?
15 A Yes.
16 MR. KELLEY: Is page 2 Tab 2?
17 THE WITNESS: Tab 2, I'm sorry."

Originally posted by DogHead

Most of those definitions are in accord with Scientology.

For the record, I have no time for any organised religion that tries to use its status or its claimed religious tenets as excuses for bad behaviour. Scientology is a soggy mess of sufferers, the megalomaniacal deformed personalities at the top leading a circus of horrors that the medieval Catholic Church would have been proud of.

Whatever. You can say that about the Jews and the Mulims too. It's nothing but prejudice.

L. Ron Hubbard was a systematic pervert and liar of the first order whose claimed military career did not reflect reality and whose questionable literary skills are a fitting testament both to his deranged views and his satyriac passions.

Ok, what does that have to do with anything?


And whatever one's definition of religion, Scientology glaringly fails to do one service to the community that even the most awful of the real religions provide: charity to the poor.

So? Not nearly all religions offer charity to the poor.

Originally posted by DogHead
And the clincher for Scientology is NOT a religion:

A religion can't have "trade secrets". What a revolting and materialistic worldview is revealed by these cold-blooded sociopaths.

So you say. Why can't it?

Doesn't the Vatican have some type of library that holds all types of information... I think they just sold copies of a book or two for a large sum of money each. Books that were only available from the Vatican and as such, from the Catholic religion... Something having to do with the Knight's Templar.. everything in that library and all of the scrolls that they don't let people see are trade secrets, are they not?

They even expect you to worship a god that "works in mysterious ways"

That's pretty secretive, isn't it?

reply to post by goosdawg


Those are all Scientology hate sites, right? You can goto any hate site and get the same propaganda thrown at you.

Much of those court cases involve "deceit" and "misrepresentation"

Is that the case, or is it just Human stupidity? Should we ban things that suckers fall for?

Many people on ATS will not vaccinate their children, and Scientology says to do the same thing. Are they crazy in that regard.. maybe the ATS members are crazy too?

As for the stuff the judges say about scientology, don't people say the same the same thing about CONSPIRACY THEORISTS?

I thought this was funny:

Originate a black PR campaign to destroy the person's repute and discredit them.... Be very alert to sue for slander at the slightest chance so as to discourage.... The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win.... Don't ever defend. Always attack.... [Enemies] may be tricked, sued, lied to, or destroyed.... If possible, destroy them utterly....

That's just what Zionist and Jewish propaganda sites do. They always slander everyone as being anti-semetic and racist. They even did it to President Bush! Even the Torah says the same thing about attacking and lieing.

Where a suit arises between an Israelite and a heathen, if you can justify the former according to the laws of Israel, justify him and say: 'This is our law'; so also if you can justify him by the laws of the heathens justify him and say [to the other party:] 'This is your law'; but if this can not be done, we use subterfuges to circumvent him"

www.come-and-hear.com...

What's up with that?

Should we ban the Jewish religion too?

I saw this on another one of those hate sites.

Some people, well, if they don't like Scientology, well, then, # you." He rises from the table. "Really." He points an angry finger at the imaginary enemy. "# you." His face reddens. "Period."

Now, that's pretty funny. It's alot funnier than someone from another religion telling you that you are going to burn in hell for all eternity if you don't like [practice] their religion.

I'd rather get a simple "# you"

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
I saw this on another one of those hate sites.

Some people, well, if they don't like Scientology, well, then, # you." He rises from the table. "Really." He points an angry finger at the imaginary enemy. "# you." His face reddens. "Period."

Now, that's pretty funny. It's alot funnier than someone from another religion telling you that you are going to burn in hell for all eternity if you don't like [practice] their religion.

I'd rather get a simple "# you"

Thats pretty funny allright? Not! You want people to say # you to you and to who ever disagrees with them, not even that but people who just dont like scientology? When have you heard of any other religion saying # you just because you dont like it? And its not religion saying you will go to hell, it is God, big difference.

Originally posted by bakednutz
When have you heard of any other religion saying # you just because you dont like it? And its not religion saying you will go to hell, it is God, big difference.

I've had plenty of Christians tell me I am going to hell because I don't accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior.

I guess all Tom Cruise was doing was saying "# you, if you don't accept Xenu as your savior."

It's the same deal. No need to argue semantics.

God/Xenu same thing.

When God says "# you" you end up in hell for all eternity.

When Tom Cruise says it, you just laugh.

So you're right, it is a big difference.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by benign.psychosis]

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
Doesn't the Vatican have some type of library that holds all types of information... I think they just sold copies of a book or two for a large sum of money each. Books that were only available from the Vatican and as such, from the Catholic religion... Something having to do with the Knight's Templar.. everything in that library and all of the scrolls that they don't let people see are trade secrets, are they not?

That's pretty secretive, isn't it?

No, it isn't. Maybe there's like a DC comicbook or something that says that, but in the real world the Vatican gives access to any serious researcher to virtually anything they want. And no, not just to Catholics. I am not a Catholic by any remote measure and I was given access. You are basically just spouting innuendo here, and smearing Catholicism in particular to set it up as some sort of straw man.

I loathe a lot about Catholicism, but its central tenets are mostly decent, its good works on the whole unimpeachable and its ruling body, whilst maintaining some levels of corporate confidentiality, not even remotely like the sick fascist power fantasies that have been endlessly documented about Scientology.

I am yet to see a Court case saying any of the following about Scientology:

"[The court record is] replete with evidence [that Scientology] is nothing in reality but a vast enterprise to extract the maximum amount of money from its adepts by pseudo scientific theories... and to exercise a kind of blackmail against persons who do not wish to continue with their sect.... The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder, L.Ron Hubbard."

--Judge Breckenridge, Los Angeles Superior Court

July 8, 2005 Schedule - Office of the Examining magistrates of Porrentruy Switzerland - Canton of the Jura
"The fac-similes saying that scientologists are swindlers do not constitute insults since the church of scientology has already been convicted in our country for swindle (JT 1994 IV 140)"

"Scientology's purpose is making money by means legitimate and illegitimate" (US District Court, Southern District of New York, 92 Civ. 3024 (PKL)

"An individual processed with the aid of the E-meter was said to reach the intended goal of "clear" and was led to believe there was reliable scientific proof that once cleared many, indeed most illnesses would automatically be cured. Auditing was guaranteed to be successful. All this was and is false -- in short, a fraud. " Federal District Judge Gesell 333 F. Supp. 357; 1971 U.S. Dist

"However, I am persuaded ... Scientology is not, subject to one reservation, a religious institution because it is, in relation to its religious pretensions, no more than a sham ," "Its bogus claims to believe in prayer and other aspects of a creed based on a divine being, were " no more than a mockery of religion. Scientology as practiced is in reality the antithesis of a religion" Supreme Court Justice Crockett - Australia 1980

"That these defendants were willing to frame their critics to the point of giving false testimony under oath against them and having them arrested and indicted speaks legions for their disdain for the rule of law. Indeed, they arrogantly placed themselves above the law, meting out their personal brand of punishment to those 'guilty' of opposing their selfish aims. -- Judge Richey in the sentencing of Mary Sue Hubbard and ten other Scientologists in October 1978 -- US District Court, Washington DC.

"Ultimately Wollersheim became so convinced auditing was causing him psychiatric problems he was willing to risk becoming a target of "freeloader debt" and "fair game." Evidence was introduced that, at least during the time relevant to Wollersheim's case, "fair game" was a practice of retribution Scientology threatened to inflict on "suppressives," which included people who left the organization or anyone who could pose a threat to the [212 Cal.App.3d 880] organization. Once someone was identified as a "suppressive," all Scientologists were authorized to do anything to "neutralize" that individual -- economically, politically, and psychologically.

After Wollersheim left the organization Scientology leaders initiated a "fair game" campaign which among other things was calculated to destroy Wollersheim's photography enterprise. They instructed some Scientology members to leave Wollersheim's employ, told others not to place any new orders with him and to renege on bills they owed on previous purchases from the business. This strategy shortly drove Wollersheim's photography business into bankruptcy. His mental condition deteriorated further and he ended up under psychiatric care."

"The crime committed by these defendants is of a breath and scope previously unheard of. No building, office, desk, or file was safe from their snooping and prying. No individual or organization was free from their despicable conspiratorial minds. The tools of their trade were miniature transmitters, lock picks, secret codes, forged credentials and any other device they found necessary to carry out their conspiratorial schemes." -Federal prosecutor's memorandum to the judge urging stiff jail sentences for 9 top leaders of Scientology who had pleaded guilty to criminal charges

"Scientology is both immoral and socially obnoxious...
It is corrupt sinister and dangerous. It is corrupt because it is based on lies and deceit and has its real objective money and power for Mr. Hubbard... It is sinister because it indulges in infamous practices both to its adherents who do not toe the line unquestionably and to those who criticize it or oppose it. It is dangerous because it is out to capture people and to indoctrinate and brainwash them so they become the unquestioning captives and tools of the cult, withdrawn from ordinary thought, living, and relationships with others."

-- Justice Latey, ruling in the High Court of London

"In addition to violating and abusing its own members' civil rights, the organization over the years with its 'fair game' doctrine has harassed and abused those persons not in the church whom it perceives as enemies. " -Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Paul Breckenridge, June 1984, in the Gerry Armstrong case

There is literally an inexhaustible supply of such concerns being raised, by Judges from every conceivable background- Jew, atheist, Christian, pagan, agnostic, fruitcake.

Originally posted by DogHead
There is literally an inexhaustible supply of such concerns being raised, by Judges from every conceivable background- Jew, atheist, Christian, pagan, agnostic, fruitcake.

Haha... those are all anti-scientologists with an opinion for religious censorship. They'd be good judges for the NWO.

If scientology is some type of weapon that causes danger, then why is it the fault of scientology?

It's just like a gun, if the wrong person picks it up, something bad could happen to someone. I don't see any reason to ban it simple because people are idiots and fall for it.

Should we start making the world safe for idiots?

Pass some idiot protection laws, maybe?

Blaming scientology only takes away any notion of personal responsibility - something that the NWO wants to take away from you.

afp.google.com...

"Anyone who knows Mr. Cruise knows that he does not have a prejudicial bone in his body and that, unlike Bild am Sonntag and other German anti-religionists, he does not discriminate against any other religion, race or color."

Bild is centre-right newspaper [tabloid]. They are not left liberal newspaper/tabloid.

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
Should we start making the world safe for idiots?

Pass some idiot protection laws, maybe?

What's this "we" stuff, white man? Groupthink again, huh. Your every expression betrays both your cryptofascist collectivism and your innate fear.

REAL clear.

Not.