RARE WTC IMAGE+VID: Whats Causing this Black Smoke at the Base?

I found this picture odd.

I have been searching for the Moussaoui trial exhibit video which shows the above scene but without smoke. The only video I can find at present is from live leak. (warning: Graphic violence)www.liveleak.com...

Here is a screen shot from the Liveleak vid.


[edit on 20-1-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by IvanZana


If I had to take an educated guess, I would say some ignited carbon based fuel, such as that in automobiles parked in the sub-levels of the building. Possibly, set off by arson dropping matches into fuel tanks. They will not bring the buildings down, even with explosions, but would give the false impression there are diesel fuel tanks under the high rises, and jet fuel fire slithered all that way down to the sub-levels and ignited those "diesel fuel tanks". That also could have happened at WTC 7 as well to give the same false impression. If WTC 7 also had sub-level parking as well.

Originally posted by OrionStars
That also could have happened at WTC 7 as well to give the same false impression. If WTC 7 also had sub-level parking as well.

Its just too bad the the EPA recoverd all the fuel in the WTC 7 ground floor tanks.



[edit on 20-1-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


And I have always been curious as to when they allegedly did that. Since Silverstein told the world, it was uncontrolled fire in WTC 7 taking fire fighters out of WTC 7, hours before the building was pulled by order of Silverstein.

Regardless of what the public has been told, OSHA would not allow any generators or diesel fuel to be placed in or under high rises. OSHA appears to have been conveniently left out of this by the "official" reports. If they made discovery during or after the construction of WTC 7, they would have shut down the construction or the building until the problem was rectified.

Which means, generators might have been placed inside during construction, and tanks buried under the high rise during construction. It would not have been done after the fact. OSHA would have closed down the building until all fuels was drained, aired out, and fuel lines aired out and disconnected.

There were natural gas generators available at the time. If they were diesel, they simply use conversion kits. In fact, I have a whole house natural gas generator. It is connected to the natural gas line on the outside at the house, which feeds my house for natural gas appliances. If there is a fire in my house, the fire department shuts off the natural gas at the outside main feeding my area.

Which further means, anything buried under the high rise would have had to be excavated out, and very large holes sealed up to eliminate any diesel vapors from inside the tank. The feed cannot merely be plugged on diesel tanks. If only airing out the lines and tanks, that can shut a building down for a very long time, as can the excavation to pull them out. No leasees legally breaking contracts, no payload to pay for those buildings. Silverstein certainly was not going to eat the cost on WTC 7 to comply with OSHA.

I would love to see the unedited version of these particular tapes, i don't believe for one second that the camera operators didn't catch the second "impact".

Who were these people? Why is there no audio? How did the authorities obtain this footage? who edited it?

Looks like smoke from the basement explosion after the plane strike. Smoke that black usually comes from burning rubber - on the parked vehicles down there maybe.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Its just too bad the the EPA recoverd all the fuel in the WTC 7 ground floor tanks.

There was a lot more fuel than just diesel in WTC7 but this is a pic of one of the towers. I've seen no details of what, if any, volatile materials were stored down there but it's too bad we can't smell that smoke - did any witnesses mention what it smelt like?

I must be an amazing psychic.

How else would I know that those desperately clinging to the rapidly shredding-through-their fingers "official" reports, would still foolishly be blaming anything in the sub-levels, on something at least 85-95 stories up (over 1000' feet up) on jet fuel, already repidly being burned off, before it could get to any sub-level areas, while raplidly burning itself out shortly after exploding, what was left of any alleged fuel, at alleged impacts, of any alleged planes?

There were natural gas generators available at the time. If they were diesel, they simply use conversion kits. In fact, I have a whole house natural gas generator. It is connected to the natural gas line on the outside at the house, which feeds my house for natural gas appliances. If there is a fire in my house, the fire department shuts off the natural gas at the outside main feeding my area.

That is because the Fire inspectors would not allow large natural gas
lines inside of the buildings - for example the kitchen for WINDOWS
ON THE WORLD restuarant (floor 106/107 Tower 1) was in the basement
for that reason. Diesel fuel has a relatively high flash point (130 F)
and is difficult to ignite.

Also arsonists dropping matches in gas tanks??? Never heard that one
Most car fuel tanks have shutters to prevent fuel spills and prevent
foreign matter from getting in.

More likely source was the jet fuel which ran down elevator/service shafts
and ignited in the lobby/basement. First arriving responders found
windows blown out and numerous people burned (some fatal).

could the black smoke be related to damage caused by that very fast
black streak that appeared to have missed the building right after the second plane hit?? i've seen it in several videos, and it surely wasn't
a "rod"..

reply to post by thedman


How do you heat your home? Gas? Electric? Green? Or any combination thereof? If fuel source, what runs your gas or oil from the outside to the inside where your appliances are located? Big lines? Or pipe less than 1" in diameter? That is like saying they do not allow water lines to feed from the water source to the inside of buildings or drain sewage out. Sewage lines are a good deal larger than water lines.

Commercial buildings are no different when natural gas is used. Big gas lines inside? Not hardly.

No gas lines are run inside with natural gas generators. They are tied into the gas line before the meter outside of the building. No lines need to be run inside if a boiler or some other source is used for heating. The gas line stops out the building. Same with diesel with tanks normally buried as are lines for aestheic purposes.

Propane? Bury or place on stands outdoors.

Oil? Bury or place on stands outdoors.

All fuel types to heat have small pipelines to run the fuel source into whatever appliances are going to use it. They are not big in diameter.

As for matches in gas tanks for the purpose of arson, how many people do you personally know with locks on their gas caps. I, personally, know of few people using locked gas caps. If they lose the key, they are out of luck filling their gas tank is why most do not. If the computer in their vehicle breaks down when controlling any mechanism inside, they cannot open the gas tanks either to fill them.

Jet fuel could not run down any elevator shafts, because those were sealed at various levels and by the doors, plus, blocked by elevator cars. No elevators went from the sub-levels to the roof. Nor did they go from the first floor to the roof.

Let's try not to veer off topic

These vids seem to corroberate with the above picture.

Whats amazing is that there are so many people that dismiss these first hand accounts..... as if to say even though you were INSIDE the building and were there as the attacks happened...your wrong. The nist people and the fema people and the feds and the cia are more correct then you.

Even though you were actually there and heard all these explosions with your own ears.

Whats amazing is that there are so many people that dismiss these first hand accounts..... as if to say even though you were INSIDE the building and were there as the attacks happened...your wrong. The nist people and the fema people and the feds and the cia are more correct then you.

Even though you were actually there and heard all these explosions with your own ears.

They will try but the efforts have become futile. Well said.
[/yvid]


There is alot of these video floating around.
Alot of people have it on tape and will probaly never encode it to a computer.

[edit on 20-1-2008 by IvanZana]

Yeah the basement of the WTC towers has been in discussion and well, repression for a long time now, thanks for posting this.

Edit:
Man that avatar... Old JD himself, what a creepy looking bastage.

[edit on 20-1-2008 by twitchy]

Why does life have to be like this where leaders want war for money, and people just dont care and will not open there eyes......

Originally posted by thedman
That is because the Fire inspectors would not allow large natural gas
lines inside of the buildings - for example the kitchen for WINDOWS
ON THE WORLD restuarant (floor 106/107 Tower 1) was in the basement
for that reason. Diesel fuel has a relatively high flash point (130 F)
and is difficult to ignite.

That large kitchen would have had quite a bit of volatile material like hot cooking oil and a store of used oil for disposal & fresh oil in containers plus minor amounts of olive oil, lard, butter, margarine etc. I doubt they'd be changing elevators between the basement and the restaurant so a dedicated elevator would be needed for them and that shaft would go right through the impact zone providing a direct passage for jet fuel to the kitchen. I know 'how much' is the question here but how much would it take in that environment.

Did the kitchen also use natural gas for cooking?

No gas lines are run inside with natural gas generators. They are tied into the gas line before the meter outside of the building. No lines need to be run inside if a boiler or some other source is used for heating. The gas line stops out the building. Same with diesel with tanks normally buried as are lines for aestheic purposes.

So how does the gas get to the generator - the generators were on the
mechanical floors 5-7 in WTC 7. Fire inspectors did not want large
diameter gas lines running through the building for safety reasons
Same for resturant - that is why gas was confined to the basement
mechanical area rather than running entire lenght of building.

Elevators - there were several express passenger and freight elevators
which ran entire lenght of building from basement to roof (actually 107th
floor)

911stories.googlepages.com...

911stories.googlepages.com...

The graphics below illustrate elevator shaft continuity on and below the aircraft impact zones. The colored areas represent shafts, not necessarily individual elevator cars. The blue area in the floor plans below indicates the #50 freight elevator shaft, which is continuous from the impact zones to the lowest basement level, B6. In the north tower, with elevator operator Arturo Griffith and carpenter Marlene Cruz aboard, the #50 elevator was hit by a blast, dropped several floors, and stopped below the B1 landing. A large fireball came through the shaft just after Griffith and Cruz were pulled from smoky elevator.

The yellow area indicates the large #6 and #7 elevators, which led to Windows on the World in the north tower (WTC 1) and to the observation deck in the south tower (WTC 2). This shaft is continuous from the impact zones to sublevel B4, where several people within the core area were injured by the jet fuel blast, and where building engineer Edward McCabe said the blast came "about 30 seconds" after he felt the building shift.

As for dropping matches in gas tanks - don't you ralize how absurd that is
Most vehicles today have gas tank which has to be released from inside
Also is shutter in fill line to prevent leaks from accidents (rollovers)

There were reports of a possible car bomb in the sub-level parking underneath the WTC
]

[edit on 21-1-2008 by IvanZana]

I was watching the video with Marlene Cruz. I got the impression she was in one of the buildings in the complex across Vessey Street from WTC 7. If so, why was she being pulled out to Barkley Street? Barkley Street runs behind the north side of WTC 7. Did she possibly become confused because of her injuries?

I know it was an inside job, and have known it since 9/11/2001. However, I do not want to muddle up my investigation with inconsistencies, such as leaving WTC complex via Barkley street exit. It was not possible unless they were in WTC 7 sub-level.