Do people who aren’t Christian deserve be tortured in hell?

reply to post by saint4God


"In the beginning of the thread, the answer given was "we all deserve Hell", Christians included. The expanded discussion was brought about from the anticipated "there is no Hell in the Bible" response.

Regarding sin, it's not up for popular vote and isn't dependent on other people. Instead, we've received instruction (including the Bible) on what sin is and how to properly view it."

I didn't see that part at the beginning. As for there is no hell in the bible? Of course there's a hell in the bible... I guess it all depends on whether or not you believe in the bible, as a whole. If you believe the bible is the true word of God then you inherently believe in hell. However you intrepet the bible relates to who you believe goes to hell.

reply to post by andre18


andre18:

Think about this, people have been believing in Christ for over 2,000 years. Would a lie live that long?

Another fact, all the disciples, all of them save John went to their death still proclaiming their faith and belief in Christ. They ALL died terrible deaths and never one of them said......Hey, wait a minute here, I really don't believe in this Jesus guy anymore......not one of them. Now, think about that a minute.


Peace to you,
Grandma

I dont think anyone is going to burn in hell forever and ever...but I do believe in a divine higher self whose energy is within us and all living things.

I think the ideas of hell are a fear based offshoot from many beliefs to get man to live for a bigger picture out of fear...when we should live for the bigger picture out of hope that we are worthy to live a life as a divine being.

I think its very wrong to teach children that you will burn in hell if you dont abide by a certain way. Its better to teach them WHY a certain way will benefit them and the world, teach understanding and logic...if they still fail to see, then their experiences will only be 3 fold in their next life for they still have things to learn, probably through the eyes of a victim the next time around.

I dont think Christ taught the same fears of the OT....just my thoughts though, not facts. I think Christ showed us the way out of here...unless you get it, you will only come back to reap what you sowed.

LV

reply to post by eyewitness86


eyewitness86:

I would love to hear your story. I this June had a near death experience and I had a witness also. I was with Michael the archangel and was able to see many, many things as well as experience many things as well. My daughter posted on ATS my NDE and video taped my telling about seeing Jesus and touching Him, well, even now it brings tears to my eyes. I was given a choice, you see, I had my hand on the gate and Jesus told me all I had to do was push it open and go in. Oh I wanted to so bad, but I could hear my daughter talking to me still and I turned and asked Jesus, "Why did you give me such beautiful grandbabies if I can't be there to help them grow up?" He then told Michael to bring me back. That is about the time the put me on life support and here I am. But, nothing will ever be the same again. There is much, much more but like you I do not wish to talk about it unless I sense someone really wants to know.


Peace to you
Grandma

Really the worse thing about hell isn't the burning part. You will FOREVER be out of God's mercy and he will no longer hear your cries. That is the saddest part forever lost from the Lord.




Peace in Christ
Grandma

Originally posted by saint4God
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." - Matthew 25:46

There's more about it in the Bible of course. As far as why God uses this "metaphor" (which can be debated whether or not it is a metaphor), that's question for Him.

the weeping and gnashing of teeth is the fear one has of the judgement. when one knows they will be destroyed.

you quoted the exact scripture, the righteous get "eternal life" that is a reward. if people going to hell suffer for all eternity and are conscience of their suffering, then arent they eternally alive?

eccl 9:5,10 say the dead dont think, they are not conscience of anything at all. if that true then how can a person in hell actually suffer torment? they would have to be alive, but life is only awarded to the righteous right?

what did god state to adam as consequence for sinning? did he say he would go to hell? no he said you will die.

revelation says that death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire. how can that be possible if hell is a place of eternal torment.

duet 30:[19] I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

life or death. not heaven or hell.

Originally posted by Grandma
Our souls live forever.

ezek 18:[4] ...... the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. .....

Originally posted by Grandma
Really the worse thing about hell isn't the burning part. You will FOREVER be out of God's mercy and he will no longer hear your cries. That is the saddest part forever lost from the Lord.

think about this for a second.

is 80 years (if we are lucky) of sin really worth and eternity of torment? why would god do that?

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Grandma
Our souls live forever.

ezek 18:[4] ...... the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
[20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. .....

Does that mean EVERY HUMAN in the history of the Earth will die? Since Eve sinned. Since Eve took the apple. And Adam and Eve was kicked out of the 'Kingdom of God'. And sinced then, ALL humans have 'caried the sin of Eve'.

Originally posted by veranda

Originally posted by saint4God
In the beginning of the thread, the answer given was "we all deserve Hell", Christians included. The expanded discussion was brought about from the anticipated "there is no Hell in the Bible" response.

I didn't see that part at the beginning.

From Page 3:

Originally posted by bobchillin
I think you're misunderstanding Christianity.. Christians do not want people to go to hell, that's like, totally defeating the purpose of the whole religion/gospel. The fact is, we all deserve it (see Romans 3:10). That whole sin thing? It's all too real. There's no getting around it. And if we die and don't have a personal relationship with Christ (as stereotypical as that sounds), we "reap what we sew," if you will. Now, I personally haven't seen Hostel, but I have heard the same things about its graphic content. But the Passion of the Christ? That's pretty graphic, as well. Whether or not you believe Jesus was as much God as he was man, there's no denying he did exist and was in fact crucified. The Crucifixion was known as the most gruesome possible death anyone could have to go through, and in reference to it a Roman officer recorded that no one should even have to think about such torment. But that's what Jesus went through so we WOULDN'T have to go through hell (Romans 8:1 and, yes, John 3:16). Anyway, I hope that helped some...

Originally posted by veranda
As for there is no hell in the bible? Of course there's a hell in the bible...
I guess it all depends on whether or not you believe in the bible, as a whole. If you believe the bible is the true word of God then you inherently believe in hell.

Thank you for this acknowledgement, it helps move the discussion forward as often we revert back to disputing its existence in the Book.

Originally posted by veranda
However you intrepet the bible relates to who you believe goes to hell.

The Book is pretty clear as I see it. What part needs interpretation?

[edit on 20-11-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Grandma
I would love to hear your story. I this June had a near death experience and I had a witness also. I was with Michael the archangel and was able to see many, many things as well as experience many things as well. My daughter posted on ATS my NDE and video taped my telling about seeing Jesus and touching Him, well, even now it brings tears to my eyes. I was given a choice, you see, I had my hand on the gate and Jesus told me all I had to do was push it open and go in. Oh I wanted to so bad, but I could hear my daughter talking to me still and I turned and asked Jesus, "Why did you give me such beautiful grandbabies if I can't be there to help them grow up?" He then told Michael to bring me back. That is about the time the put me on life support and here I am. But, nothing will ever be the same again. There is much, much more but like you I do not wish to talk about it unless I sense someone really wants to know.


Peace to you
Grandma

Thank you for sharing your testimony. It's a hard thing to do especially in this crowd. Naturally every excuse in the world will come up to try to invalidate your experience, but because of my experience, I know better.

Originally posted by miriam0566
life or death. not heaven or hell.

Sorry, a person can't parse out some words of the Bible and throw the others away expecting the parts their personal selections to be valid. It's the 'take it or leave it' Word of God.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by miriam0566
think about this for a second.

is 80 years (if we are lucky) of sin really worth and eternity of torment? why would god do that?

We're in a school of hard knocks, there's a war going on between good and evil. If we stand on the boarderline for too long, we're going to get picked off...more than likely by the one side that doesn't play by the rules.

Dup post deleted

[edit on 20-11-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by gordonwest
Does that mean EVERY HUMAN in the history of the Earth will die?

Just about. The Bible has an account of one going directly to heaven without dying but I believe is the exception and not the rule.

Originally posted by gordonwest
Since Eve sinned. Since Eve took the apple.

Hehe, that's funny because that's what Adam said. He tries to shift the blame here when talking to God:

"The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

Oh 'innocent' Adam...I think not.

Originally posted by gordonwest
And Adam and Eve was kicked out of the 'Kingdom of God'. And sinced then, ALL humans have 'caried the sin of Eve'.

We've carried the 'sin of mankind', that is to say, put into the same situation we would do the same thing because this is our desire/tendency/nature.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


You are so blinded because of what has been pounded in to your head to be truth. You still have not shown me where it says people will burn forever in hell that is because you can't, it is not any where in the bible.

Originally posted by SailorinAZ
You are so blinded because of what has been pounded in to your head to be truth. You still have not shown me where it says people will burn forever in hell that is because you can't, it is not any where in the bible.

Help! I'm blind and pounded! You seriously believe I was born a Christian? Or because of what someone said? That's an amusing thought to me. Anyway, I have shown many times from page 3 to this with not only my words, but with someone else's words, and supporting Biblical quotes. In fact, I'm surprised the mods haven't given me warning from the repeated cut & paste. Yes, Hell sucks, but a lot of things suck and are very real. If I were blinded and did not want to see it because it was ugly, then I would say it is not in the Bible.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by saint4God]

The idea that I am already PRE judged due to Eve is ridiculous-

I feel Eve means something more literal (LIFE)
Adam means something more literal (MANKIND)

Life came into mankind-this is the fall of spirit (but really it wasnt a fall, it was a choice of spirit, to come into matter (darkness) to sift out any lost light from the last regeneration that was here before this Earth. I picture angels stepping up to the Most High of themselves and saying 'we will go'. We left God, God never left us. We left Thee for the will of Thees order in all things-sifting light from darkness. We were true Warriors for the light, in the beginning-not pre damned, the evil things in the world are of natural origin in a material world. Every material world will have sufferings, temptations, sorrow...its part of the illusion of this world.

Those who believe in this hell (being separated from God)-do you really see Satan having his own domain outside of God? God is everywhere, rules everything-how can there be a domain outside of God? PLEASE DO NOT THROW BIBLE VERSES AT ME-USE YOUR LOGICAL MIND PLS> God is all things. Everything is of God. Lets take someone like Hitler....Hitler fell victim to the material world (pride and greed), to say Hitler fell victim to Satan, in my mind, is just another way he fell victim to the material world of illusions.

What if God truly feels we were divine and are divine-through conscious thinking, we make choices, those choices are either ruled by the material world (greed, pride, lust) or are ruled by the spirit world (love, mercy, harmony, selflessness). If you choose a decision due to greed and pride, Satan didn't make you do it, the material world tempted you to do it (and you made the choice). We learn from these temptations, we become more aware of who we are living more for the spirit body then the material body.

If you take the bases of most religions, this is what it comes down to. Making literal translations to understand the effects of the material world and the effects of the spirit world. This is the risk, as spirits, that we take, for truly, in this darkness, we can loose our spark of Thee, which in my mind, your soul becomes diminished just like a candle blown out by the wind. The fire ceases, the smoke will dwindle away into the thin air....same as a soul who lives more for the material world then the spirit world. This world can be blinding to our soul.

To say Satan will have his own domain means Satan is either not destructible OR Satan has a purpose, a place, for the works of Thee most high. Energy exists in everything. We are alchemists in this sense that we are taking our energy and changing it into the material things or the spiritual things. If you waste your energy, it diminishes your soul. If you use it wisely, you are allowing the spirit to work through you (the purpose of our coming here).

Everything here in mother nature shows transformation (seeds to trees, buds to bloom, elements to energies) to me this is the beauty in our Most High, the signs are all around us that we have the ability to transform our light to be useful or non useful to others and the unity of all.

The more credit you give Satan, the more powerful thee will be. This is just what the adversary is testing for....The adversary has laid many traps here, to get man to think, we are not worthy. If you choose to live a life as not being worthy of good actions and loving thy neighbor as you want to loved ect ect....that is a choice you have made. The material world has gotten the better of you. I choose to believe that NOTHING will ever exists outside of God. God is within all things, realms....even if its through spirit coming into matter (light coming into darkness).(God filled and fattened the Heavens and Earth)-this is what genesis was talking about. God filled and fattened....not created out of nothing. God filled and fattened the material world with the spirit by sending souls into bodies, by sending spirit into plants and animals, by placing energies in the sun, planets, water, air, ect....The life and movements of life are the fillings of Thee in the material world(which is just an illusion we experience as a part of Thee). The good has its purpose and so does the bad. Once our light eneter this world, we are at the mercy of darkness because it makes us believe we are seperated from Thee most high. We are of Thee...we are Thee walking in the flesh.

If all the answers laid in one book, then we would have no reason to grow. But, we are supposed to grow, we are supposed to seek, we are supposed to follow our thoughts and intuitions with a humble heart. We are walking instruments of Thee. If you choose not to see this, again, its your choice. To give credit to Satan for all of these spirits who still lay asleep blinded by this illusion of separation is giving credit where credit is NOT due and takes away the idea that we need to own up to our choices and decisions. We need to stop passing the buck to Satan.

As always, to each their own, the beauty of the free will,

Best intentions,
LV

Originally posted by jdposey
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

It seems it is hard to analyze this place away as not being actual "flames." I know people do that, but scripture clearly lays it out as it is.

It's different interpritations then. One group would read that as saying, "That he may dip the tip of his finger in faith, and cool my tongue (tongue having significance more than being just a body part) for I am tormented in this desire". In which case, the verse actually becomes quite lovely and nothing really that despicable.

Water, fire, tongue, mouth, hands, ground, ect. have much more meaning that just reading it literally....that is the most basic/easy way to read scripture. Judaism has 4 ways to read scripture if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
The idea that I am already PRE judged due to Eve is ridiculous-

Don't worry about that. You'd be judged because of you. She's got 1 up on us because she lived for some time without sin whereas we do not.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Those who believe in this hell (being separated from God)-do you really see Satan having his own domain outside of God?

If he doesn't now, he will have one according to Revelation.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
God is everywhere, rules everything-how can there be a domain outside of God? PLEASE DO NOT THROW BIBLE VERSES AT ME-USE YOUR LOGICAL MIND PLS>

Catch 22. I make a statement, you say I can't back it up, I quote scripture then you say I can't use scripture. I can give experience accounts first-hand, you say I'm batty, etc.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
The more credit you give Satan, the more powerful thee will be.

Nah, having met the guy it doesn't really work that way. True he gains advantage in things such as anger, paranoia, etc. but overestimating him gives him an advantage as well. He's a lot older and more experienced than any of us.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by saint4God]