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The Luciferian Endgame and the Coming Great Deception

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posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by EarthDweller

Oh, my friend... you, Sir, are just very MODERN. I understand that some people love throwing catch-phrases from off the "enlightenment" and believing quantifiable, empirical logic to be GOD of our times... You showcase it very well!


I'm not sure if that was a sarcastic, back-handed compliment - but in case it was - it's pretty ironic how many people on here are condescendingly warning everyone about "The Great Deception" and then PREACHING about their unwavering "faith".

Who's more likely to be the one being duped here?

The person who looks at things critically and actually asks questions before buying into them (since when is LOGIC a "catch-phrase"??)

Or the person who simply accepts archaic views because that's what every backward generation before them did too?

Have you ever considered that maybe religion is the ultimate deception?

as danx already pointed out:



...religion - making claims and assumptions about things based on interpretations of texts written thousands of years ago, and translated numerous of times.


you have 3 major religions in this world that are very much at odds with each other that ARE ALL BASED ON THE SAME ORIGINAL TEXT.

That "Word of God" may have all been phooey in the first place but that doesn't even matter because when you factor in 3000 years of broken telephone and countless amounts of people superimposing their own beliefs on it (King of England wants a divorce = *New & Improved* Word of God!) it might get a little...ahem...deceptive.


I'm not trying to judge anyone on here - believe what you want to believe - but don't go off patronizing opinions that are the only ones that actually make any sort of objective, "trendy" sense.




posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by tgambill
The aliens are evil.....as mentioned in Genesis 6. They are fallen Angels and have become Nephilim. Long story short. they are demons that have been able to cross over in makeshift bodies.


So that's it? You've made up your mind regarding (possible) intelligent extraterrestrial life, based on the Bible?

What do you think of science proving that the Earth is not 6 or 10 000 years old? That's what the Bible says, right? So, is science the work of the devil as well, for questioning the "the word of god"?



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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Much of what science comes from is from the understanding coming from humans that are fourth dimensional beings, having no capacity to understand that which is beyond five to eleven dimensions of space and time. God has at least eleven dimensions of time and space or more....its like comparing the one or two dimensions of a fish with that to Bill Gates. Both are living but, possess different levels of dimensional capacity.

The Bible is the only truth that can be depended upon.........Jesus Christ is God and he commands this universe. His truth will come to bear in a short time.



reply to post by danx
 



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by tgambill

The Bible is the only truth that can be depended upon.........Jesus Christ is God and he commands this universe. His truth will come to bear in a short time.



So Heath Ledger didn't die then? The world economy isn't in turmoil? I guess not because they can't be truth, they were only reported on multi-national news sources and not told to us by 'God'.

I really, really can't wait for this particular baseless prophesy to go past uneventfully so i can once again say, 'i told you so'.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by tgambill
Much of what science comes from is from the understanding coming from humans


What comes out of science are the provable answers and conclusions of our understanding of reality, and not based on someone's belief of reality.



[...] that are fourth dimensional beings, having no capacity to understand that which is beyond five to eleven dimensions of space and time. God has at least eleven dimensions of time and space or more


And you know this how? Because it's in the bible?

Should I remind you that the bible, and all the other religious texts, were written by humans? You know.. those beings that you characterize as being so inapt to understand the world and the universe around us.

How can you take seriously the words of people who lived thousand years ago, and not take seriously the words of literate, scientific men of the 21st century?

Oh.. I know.. because they go against your beliefs of what reality is.



The Bible is the only truth that can be depended upon.........Jesus Christ is God and he commands this universe. His truth will come to bear in a short time.


I'm sorry, but the bible is not the only truth, it's not even a truth. A lot of what's in the bible is incorrect in many ways and science has shown this. This is not a matter of opinion, beliefs or 'faith', it's fact.

Saying that what's in the bible is the truth because you believe it is the truth, is an easy way out of not having to think and discover things. It explains nothing!

I guess some people are content in not having to think and understand things. I am not.

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." -- Richard Dawkins



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by danx
 





That's one of the problems I have with religion - making claims and assumptions about things based on interpretations of texts written thousands of years ago, and translated numerous of times


You couldn't be more right here. That is the key question I have asked to many people of "faith". And you know what there answer was.......NATTA, ZIP, ZILCH. It was like they had never heard that before and could not come up with a solid answer. After they had a chance to think about it, they all had relativley the same answer....."The Bible was written by GOD through man." That answer I still cannot grasp. Is this because I cannot comprhend the many dimensions of GOD?

That, to me, makes absolutely no sense. Why wouldn't GOD give the Bible to his people as he supposedly did the Ten Commandments. If he has the power to deliver tablets of stone with engraving on them, He certainly could deliver a nice leather bound book with a stamp on the front. I guess the only answer I will ever get is that GOD works in mysterious ways, or GOD chooses to work through people. As they say, you have to have faith and trust in order to understand the true ways of GOD....detecting the sarcasm there?..........



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by palehorse23
I guess the only answer I will ever get is that GOD works in mysterious ways, or GOD chooses to work through people. As they say, you have to have faith and trust in order to understand the true ways of GOD....detecting the sarcasm there?..........


Oh yes, I share the same views. Faith is the great cop out. Just say that you have to believe to see it or something to that effect, and we're somehow supposed to accept it as an argument that proves their claim and end the discussion.

To win a discussion you have to explain and prove why your argument is correct. Faith explains nothing, because well.. it can prove nothing.

And what is faith really, other than the hope that something you believe in is true? How is that supposed to supersede science - the organized branch of knowledge based on verifiable, provable observations?

Religion and science are different set of tools, they have different purposes. That's why religion should not be mixed in these matters, and that's what I've always argued.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


Agree. Not to be off topic, but related IMO, I have a thread about a statue of Jesus with an erection and I tried my hardest to get a team debate going on the subject of art vs. religion and to no avail, no one would answer our challenge. Why is that? What are religious folks afraid of that they cannot debate logically with the other side. Even on this topic, it seems that they always give up and do not respond with a conclusive answer. Man is that frustrating to me. How do they know they will not achieve their goal of conversion or saving someone's soul? I just wonder why they run I guess.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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what gets me are people who are so sure they are RIGHT about their spiritual beliefs, and believe everyone who disagrees is wrong.

common ground for religious, agnostic, and athiests alike is that there are ALOT ofthings that we simply cannot explain at this point in time. we have no idea why we are here, how consciousness works, or even what matter is made of and what holds everything together. we cannot percieve a vast majority of the full color spectrum, we have no idea what the majority of the universe is made of, and our actual observations are based upon a fraction of reality that is so tiny it is literally like trying to describe and explain the existence of a beach thousands of miles long by examining just a single grain of sand. but people still insist on absolute truth simply because they believe it to be so, based on their faith and their experiences.

it's a pretty cocky assumption to make. imo, human beings have neither the ability nor the capacity to understand the workings of the universe, and for someone to claim that they do is just manipulative.

and forget the universe, but the notion of understanding reality itself is outlandish. that's like describing the same beach above based upon examining a single silica particle from that single grain of sand. it's just not possible.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by dominusluciferi
 





on one hand, i understand what you are saying. on the other hand, please try and understand the implications that can be derived by someone describing something such as this as "luciferian", and how another person would easily assume that anyone describing themselves as luciferian becomes associated with this phenonmenon.


Sorry dominus I wanted to respond to you earlier. I understand your point here. People jump to conclusions way too quickly. If it goes against what they believe to be true, it must be either evil, impossible to be true, crazy talk, or just plain wrong. And the icing on the cake is that they are unwilling to open their mind to even acknowledge others beliefs. It is their way or the highway. Just because you disagree, doesn't make one more right than the other.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by palehorse23
What are religious folks afraid of that they cannot debate logically with the other side. Even on this topic, it seems that they always give up and do not respond with a conclusive answer. Man is that frustrating to me. How do they know they will not achieve their goal of conversion or saving someone's soul? I just wonder why they run I guess.


The problem is that religion (and faith) is not logical. It frustrates me as well, because I like to debate and discuss things. The only thing you can discuss with religious people are the concrete subjects, like the Church's position on condoms, or the Inquisition.

If you try to address any of the other issues, faith, beliefs, claims.. they will either end the argument, or act offended. Because really, if you try and logically debate and discuss those things you will come to the conclusion that they are simply illogical.

Acting offended or 'running', as you put it, might be the way that some religious people have to avoid having to realize exactly that, and that it could shake their faith.

As Lewis Black put it, I would love to have the faith to believe it took place in seven days… but… I have thoughts, and that can really f*ck up the faith thing, just ask any Catholic priest.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:39 PM
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this thread has turned into:

the... lets debate religion and can you prove God thread...

no.... we cant prove God exist just like you cant disprove it

yes the bible was written by Gods people , but that doesnt mean its not true

to believe in God and the Bible you have to have faith.

if you have never been close to God with your heart and mind you will not understand how real he is.

Jesus said to seek him out.....so if you never tried to seek him out how can you have an opinion that he doesnt exist or the bible is nonsignificant

so my suggestion to you all is: dont try to discredit God or the bible when you DONT really know what is going on in the spiritual world..

science cannot prove Gods existence, and if all you believe in is modern mans science wich constantly changes then you are truely lost










[edit on 23-1-2008 by easynow]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by easynow
 





so my suggestion to you all is: dont try to discredit God or the bible when you DONT really know what is going on in the spiritual world..


That kind of proves our point. How can you believe and have faith in something when you do not know what is really happening in, in this case, the spiritual world.




science cannot prove Gods existence, and if all you believe in is modern mans science wich constantly changes then you are truely lost

Isn't religion constantly changing as well. It seems like there are new interpretations of the Bible everyday. Ten people can site the same passage and it will have ten different meanings. And, how come there are so many different belief systems out there? That is because religion changes as well.

[edit on 1/23/2008 by palehorse23]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by easynow
 


that's my entire point. ANY religion COULD be true. but to say that something else is not true because you KNOW you are right is simply unsound. NOBODY knows they are right, save for the delusional. people BELIEVE they are right, and that is totally different, and it's ok, as long as it is recognized that it is a belief and not absolute truth, because absolute truth is unattainable by humanity, just as understanding reality is unattainable by humanity, as there is no way to account for perception.

everything is subjective.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by palehorse23
 


if you have never been close to God in your mind and heart you will not understand why people have faith and a belief.

Jesus said to seek him.. so why dont you do that and then you will understand what it really means to have faith.

if you just keep questioning why you cant understand God and dont try to really and truely find out for yourself thrue Jesus you will never understand



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by dominusluciferi
 


any religion can be true ? i do not agree....

if that is your perception of reality than i guess that would be true for you

it is not my perception of reality so ......i believe and have faith in Jesus



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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mc-square!

Hey buddy!

Oh, im not expressing my unwavering faith here. At least i don't think i am... The catch-phrase i was alluding to was the likes of "show me quantifiable evidence". You know, quantifiable evidence of what in theory would not be accounted for by such means! Now thats what I thought was ironic. I draw my conclusion, you may think, to rashly! the way he formulated his post made me an image of him as the typical modern, enlighted existensialist. I'm quick on the gun to judge like that, and I'm not ashamed of it


This is a discussion of Lucifer, in part. So to begin a dialogue with saying something (PARAPHRASING) like: "good and evil is an abstract construct, given as a label to natural psychological dynamics" (wait, that sounds to good, oh whatever...) seems to me like he just wanted to chop the legs of the discussion.

Oh well, i suppose that's fair though. I, my subjective self - strongly believe in the concept of evil and good. but i also believe that there is no sharp line to draw between the two and that you cannot possibly "quantify" either one. I mean... can you quantify "friendship"? No. Does it then not exist as a "species"? It does!

Alright! Good talk, good talk...




[edit on 23-1-2008 by EarthDweller]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by easynow
no.... we cant prove God exist just like you cant disprove it


Firstly, it's the claimant that has the burden of proof, and as they say extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It's not the job of science to disprove things which have no evidence of remotely existing in the first place. When you come up with evidence for the existence of god, science can test it and either prove or disprove that evidence, until then the argument of "not being able to disprove it" is moot.



yes the bible was written by Gods people, but that doesnt mean its not true


But the things in the bible, that man has been able to verify, have been determined as being incorrect or false. What this tells me is that, even if they are things in the bible that are indeed true, the bible certainly isn't the word of god because god could not be wrong, right?



so my suggestion to you all is: dont try to discredit God or the bible when you DONT really know what is going on in the spiritual world..


I should remind you that his the Aliens & UFOs forum, not the Spiritual/Religious forum. What's being discussed here in this thread is if religion has any place or can it explain the UFO phenomena.

Can religion explain the UFO phenomena? No, it can only offer more of the same: faith and beliefs.

UFOs are visible phenomena, that have been observed by non-religious and religious people alike, therefor it is not a religious matter. You don't have to believe to see it. It's a scientific matter, period.



science cannot prove Gods existence, and if all you believe in is modern mans science wich constantly changes then you are truely lost


Yes, science does change. It's called advancement through research and testable observations, something I believe religions are not very fond of.



any religion can be true ? i do not agree....
if that is your perception of reality than i guess that would be true for you


Do you have anything that shows some other religion could be less true than yours? No, because all you have to show is faith. So yes, any religion could be true based on faith.

You know, that claim - that some religions are less true - coming from someone who have said the things that you have regarding your religion, god and the bible, is really hypocritical.

Regarding our perception of reality.. Well, how are we supposed to agree on what reality is if you keep denying the verifiable, provable, testable, observable facts of it, because it goes against your beliefs?

You realize that reality isn't what you wish or belief it is, right? There's a hint in the word itself.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by danx
 


Hey there, spread eagle buddy!

I'm not shure wether i agree with your "extraordinary claim" thingie! I'd say that stating that the material universe, planets and galaxies, the natural laws that govern them and LIFE came to be by hapchance is the true extraordinary claim!

You should give 'em Darwinists a hard time my sceptical friend
Go get 'em!



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by danx
 



that is all your perception of your reality and i can say you are delusional in your perception of your reality just as you can say the same to me....

how come you dont quote me on what i have said about finding Jesus

have you ever really tried ? or did you just give up because you couldnt scientificly prove it ?



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