The Luciferian Endgame and the Coming Great Deception

Originally posted by danx
I'm sure us atheists and other freethinkers will have to just form our conclusions based on scientific reasoning, logic and reality.

As you say the question of "who" to believe in the end is a good question. You have answered yourself as to what you believe in.

It will be known who to follow,it's spiritual knowledge not of flesh and science.

I do not thump God down peoples throats ,i am against those who use God to personally gain and take others off the road.

I cannot tell you believe nor can you say to those who have a relationship with The Supreme we need to look at reality. You mention "freethinkers" ..have you heard of God's rule ..a strict one of freewill ,choose what you want ,He is not forcing anyone.

Have you read other scriptures other than just the Bible? How can you oversee/ignore scriptures that is 1000's of years old and write it off in sarcasm of the word reality?

Prove all is said ..even in the Bible God dares us to prove His existence. Why would He do that if He is not? That what flesh have done since beginning was against that He wanted ,He gave us ONE last chance by reducing Himself to flesh. Me,you in flesh are nothing ..spiritually we are everything.

As a an atheist i take you do not believe in souls ,so spiritually that won't make sense to you either.

In the end no true believer can prove their faith to no one than to themselves and The Supreme..no other flesh can see it. All that non believers choose to see are those who use "God" to profit and then they have so much more to back up how "make believe" our Friend is.

There are those who honour God in silence and those who abuse His name,the latter are the fools ..and only a fool listens to a fool.

duh! *removed*

sorry!

[edit on 21-1-2008 by Paul the seeker]

Originally posted by qonone
As you say the question of "who" to believe in the end is a good question. You have answered yourself as to what you believe in.

If by what I believe in you mean that I believe science and logic are the best tools we have to comprehend and understand ourselves and the universe, then you are correct.

The world and the universe is an extremely beautiful place, and the more we understand about it the more beautiful does it appear. -- Richard Dawkins

It will be known who to follow,it's spiritual knowledge not of flesh and science.

Why does anyone have to follow? How about thinking for yourself and deciding based on your own conclusions?

You mention "freethinkers" ..have you heard of God's rule ..a strict one of freewill ,choose what you want ,He is not forcing anyone.

Why does god give man freewill if when man makes bad decisions or goes against god's will, he will punish and kill you? This, of course, according to your religious texts.

Have you read other scriptures other than just the Bible?

You mean like the old testament, koran? I tried, but I would rather watch a B horror movie and it still would have less gore and killings.

How can you oversee/ignore scriptures that is 1000's of years old and write it off in sarcasm of the word reality?

Easily. Whenever those scriptures try to address things that we can verify, such as whether the Sun revolves around the Earth, or whether the Earth is 6 or 10000 years old, they have proven to be invariably flat out wrong.

I'm sorry if it's a surprise, or sound offensive, if by believing in science over religion I think I have a better grasp of what reality is.

reply to post by easynow


So they turned off our nukes. And perhaps took someone who was sent to shoot them down. Sounds to me like they're trying to send us a message and not destroy us. Fact is, nukes are dangerous to US, as well as they are to them. They are horrible weapons. And we should get rid of them.

reply to post by danx


Danx I'd like to make it quite clear to you that I am no atheist. I'm a believer. But I'm a believer in the peace of God not in the prejudice perpetrated by man on the owrd of god, that throughout history has hurt mankind. I believe that approaching the Question of UFOs and aliens with such prejudice, is tantamount to all the injustice, violence, slavery, and heartache man kind has unleashed upon itself over the millenia. Why continue to make the same mistake?

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by easynow

 

So they turned off our nukes. And perhaps took someone who was sent to shoot them down. Sounds to me like they're trying to send us a message and not destroy us. Fact is, nukes are dangerous to US, as well as they are to them. They are horrible weapons. And we should get rid of them.

Actually "Nukes" are nothing to them. Their ships speed is beyond mankinds imagination. The Nuke would only begin to discharge and they could be thousands of miles away in the next microsecond. Stupid monkeys with metal on their chests be patting eachother on the back thinking they distroyed a mother ship, when really the ship disappeared.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Danx I'd like to make it quite clear to you that I am no atheist. I'm a believer. But I'm a believer in the peace of God not in the prejudice perpetrated by man on the owrd of god, that throughout history has hurt mankind. I believe that approaching the Question of UFOs and aliens with such prejudice, is tantamount to all the injustice, violence, slavery, and heartache man kind has unleashed upon itself over the millenia. Why continue to make the same mistake?

I'm glad even though you are a believer you're still able to have perspective. Unfortunately a lot of people don't - and this goes for both 'sides'.

I don't have a problem with 'believers'. I think people ought to be able to believe in whatever they want, as long as it doesn't affect the way other people live. It's a personal choice. And it should not have consequences for people with different choices/beliefs.

As you said it yourself, most of the times religious beliefs come with certain 'misconceptions' that could be harmful to reasoning and logic. That's why I'm of the opinion that religion and religious beliefs should not be mixed with certain subjects.

I know my words might seem harsh at times, but I'm only being objective.

reply to post by danx


I believe you are trying to impress upon people your understanding of the issue. Nothing wrong with that. But this is an issue of faith because our faith has been largely based on the idea that humans are alone in the universe. And we can no longer take that approach. And many have made the great leap forward. Religious organizations do, in fact, control the flow of information on this matter. There is verifiable evidence that throughout history religious organizations of all kinds have held secrets considered dangerous to the status quo. As a man of faith I believe that this is wrong. That to meet a new civilization is more of a reenforcement of faith than it is a detriment. Because it means that we have someone else in this lonely universe to share our faith with, to share our reverence for God, and to share the ideas that push forward a struggling civilization...Such as our own.

Originally posted by palehorse23
reply to post by crowpruitt

 

If you believe and trust in God, then the deception cannot take over your mind, Satan loses.

[edit on 1/19/2008 by palehorse23]

i find that hard to believe...yes im skeptical if they are actually visiting and or exsist, but i do believe to some degree, but i also have a firm belief in christ..So your quote there doesnt quite hold water if thats the case..Just my 2 cents

Originally posted by danx
No matter what subject you are discussing, mix it with religion and it will get incredibly more distorted.

i couldnt agree with this statement any furthur

The question posed time and again in this thread is whether Satan is putting these thoughts in our heads...Why should this be the case? Have we not seen examples of man made evil? Do we see ourselves so powerless over our own minds and will that must surmise that something else is in control? How fearful must we be of the unknown? Are we so powerless that we can't choose for ourselves what is good and what is evil? That we have to somehow put that responsibility on God or Satan? If God and Satan are responsible for all of our thoughts then what is the point of education, of learning how the world works, of institutions of faith, law, and justice. If we have no control over our decisions, what is the point of freewill? What is the point of choice? God wants us to be more godly, does that mean to meet every unknown with fear and hostility? Does that mean to that we must give up any notion of diplomacy with an Alien race because we're incapable of making such a decision of our own will? Do we have to wait for God or Satan to tell us what is right or wrong? Or do we determine that with the gift of free will? How many of you think yourselves qualified to tell God what of his creations is evil or simply a trick and not real?

[edit on 21-1-2008 by projectvxn]

lucifer is an existence of your own perception, really to some he is a deity sitting and making commands from a thrown, to other's like myself he is a life force of nature perhaps the exact opposite of jehova or yahwehs, the traditional biblical god if you take the bible so literally, like it seems your author has, you will beleive there is a literal war going on between them, much like wars that are fought between men

i think this misinterpetation and false literal assumption of the bible has led him to beleive too strongly in the forces of good and evil

it is interesting to read though

reply to post by FireMoon


Hey FireMoon - great post at the beginning of this thread about the very idea of "evil".

One question: You mentioned Bell's Theorem as an explanation for a lot of the things in this universe we deem "paranormal". Care to elaborate a bit?

My understanding of Bell's Theorem/Quantum Mechanics is pretty basic, but from what I know of it - and correct me if I'm wrong here - Bell's Theorem is basically an argument which supports the non-deterministic implications of QM.

So did you mean it therefore just implies many of the paranormal things in this universe are still possible, if not necessarily explainable - or does Bell's Theorem actually explain some of these things?

For example I think the whole Quantum Entanglement thing proves and explains how teleportation is possible, right? Is there any other type of "paranormal" phenomena that can be explained through Bell's Theorem or Quantum Mechanics?

(according to the rest of the people on this thread I'm sure it's all just the work of the devil...lol)

reply to post by mc_squared


I don't believe it's the work of the devil...I'm a real Christian, I read the fairy tales and learn their cryptic lessons and move on with science to describe it. And Leave it to God to bless it. I for one cannot wait till the day of First Contact.

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by palehorse23

 

hi there palehorse23

glad to see your thread is going good. it is a subject that definately needs examination. i was gonna start a thread (before you started this one) similar to this but chickened out because of the negative side of dealing with the interesting people out there...look at the next post under this one , thats what im talking about...lmao

my question that i have for you is :

why did this thread...............
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Ufo Sightings Will Increase Worldwide , page 1

..........make you react the way you did ?

was it because of the increase in sightings ?

or was it because the author of the thread ?

or was it because the author of that thread is involved with the ashtar galactic command and is channeling aliens and trying to spread a message that could be part of this illusion/delusion scenerio ??

just wondering because....... i was thinking about how this channelling aliens fits into this picture ?....

tell me what you think

thanks in advance

Thanks for the good words easy now. been a bit busy so i have some reading to do but to answer your question: Essentially, all I had to do was read the title and it triggered my thoughts about the book. Somewhere in the book, I am looking for it still, Marzulli mentions there is more sightings to come. A pretty general statement, but nonetheless, it must have stuck with me for some reason. That is why I decided. I have been putting it off for sometime, same as you, but I said the hell with it and started it anyway.










[edit on 1/21/2008 by palehorse23]

reply to post by projectvxn

Seek the truth inside yourself, and let no one ideology change that.

hey there projectvxn. You have a lot that I want to respond too, but my boy is not sleeping well tonight. But this line in particular I wanted to comment on. This line, I would have to say, was the most important lesson I have taken away from this book. At one point of the book, I believe the author even states that in so many words. I am not religious, so I was very hesitant to read the book to begin with. But, I am open to educating myself about as many different schools of thought as possible. Anyway, your statement, I believe is the most important one you have said so far. It also goes along with a previous line from another members post, I believe it was easynow, my point of the thread was to gain opinions from all sides. As humans, we have to realize that there are so many things in our world that are so far beyond our comprehension that we can no way determine what is exactly the principle to follow. One lone ideology cannot shape one's entire way of thinking. We have to be open as a people to anything being possible. In all aspects of life, whether it be religion, aliens, government conspiracy, NWO, man-made diseases, you name it. All angles have to be looked at. Okay, gotta tend to the boy. I want to continue more if you're willing to stay.
Quick comment for easynow: Why would you go away from the thread? Your comments have been great!

All input is greatly helpful for anyone trying to learn as much as they can. This is how we gain knowledge to make crucial decisions for our own lives.

Thanks to all for your opinions that have been put forth.

If I may respond to your post? I find that perhaps after reading most of the responses and skimming through some, that perhaps the question is one of "Do you think that most people have their own minds regarding UFO's and since those people seeing lights up in the sky except for maybe some physical experiences relating to spacealiens and UFO's see the entire subject of UFO's as something that pertains to religion or just a response to explain what it is that those people experienced?"

I would think that in some instances some of the people probably were wrong especially with lights up in the sky and such - if I may - perhaps being tired after the day's work or being interrupted having on thinking about something else at the time of the incident.

I myself think that religion can not explain the concept that humans are just not the only lifeforce out in the Universe. But to state that people do not have their own minds and can not tell the difference, then to me, there would be no need for a God in the first place or the Devil or demons then.

I would think that humans may be mistaken sometimes, but in the end to not think that there is other life who also have their own ideas out there in the Universe would be to diminish God. I then have to wonder who it really is that is having delusions and if a group of people tending to support a religious minister or person then "Why do they not think that they can have mass delusions that can not explain UFO's in the first place?"
Meaning that religion is just another answer the same as people could be mistaken sometimes in what they actually saw up in the sky.

The personal physical experiences then to me can not be from demons because then those people would be affected the most and usually that has been brought out in movie form or talked about as being "those people need an exorcist!"

Then some other people talked about some form of psychic attacks and try and ascertain where those are coming from also either by electromagnetical forms or through some form of aspect of explaining again some form of religion.

However ---- if a person has his/her own mind then they should also be aware of whether it would be a God or angels or the Devil or demons trying to manipulate his/her mind. I think if there is real religion that God would help out the person either through another human person or through some life experiences that guide the person back to a better reality.

Although spacealiens may be able to manipulate the mind of a person through some form - it is usually thought of as being through a science-based form and not from a religious-based form.

It may be hard work to ascertain the difference in the forms, and that may lead to any number of techniques that can be learned and not all from religion as it is usually given but also are based on another person being a known force for good in the world. Meditation, relaxation techniques, and self-hypnosis are such forms that do not lend to the forms either being good or evil, just forms that people can use, but first the person would have to know his/her own mind or someone else may have to notice that the person's form is not what is considered to be normal. There are a variety of professions already dedicated to answering those questions and not all of the professions are from a religious aspect either. But then a person would also have to ask or clarify what forms of religion the spacealiens or say of the UFO's those forms also would be.

I think in the end personally to me to think that God is so Small that to me some religious leaders tend to kind of box in God, when it should be boxing in the Devil.

Know your own mind, and most of the questions will seem to disappear, at least in my opinion. Yes, there will be thoughts still about those questions, but the atmosphere will be more relaxed and perhaps additional information will be found.

It has been stated that even if a person is thinking about something else, in the back of the brain and mind, the brain is still working on those other important questions that people may have. Not all people will have the same questions either. Thank God! It would be a boring group of people on the Planet if everyone ended up being the same instead of unique. But to equate it always to religion may just be that person in that profession. The rest of us have to look at it from a different perspective, which is fine to me; as I stated, it would be a boring planet if everyone was the same.

Then one can get into the philosophy of robots then, and actually are UFO's or at least some of those UFO's controlled by robots from an intelligent species out in the Universe?

Then of course, the religion of the robots and all of that. It just keeps on-going with all the questions. Having the answers may take further real thinking for quite a long time yet, and perhaps not all the questions will be answered so readily either.
Hard work that thinking then is!

luzifer and ahriman
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy

Christ between Lucifer and Ahriman

Lucifer and his counterpart Ahriman figure in anthroposophy as two polar, generally evil influences on world and human evolution. Steiner described both positive and negative aspects of both figures, however: Lucifer as the light spirit that "plays on human pride and offers the delusion of divinity", but also motivates creativity and spirituality; Ahriman as the dark spirit that tempts human beings to "deny [their] link with divinity and to live entirely on the material plane", but also stimulates intellectuality and technology. Both figures exert a negative effect on humanity when their influence becomes misplaced or one-sided, yet their influences are necessary for human freedom to unfold.[1][3]

According to anthroposophy, each human being has the task to find a balance between these opposing influences; each person is helped in this task through the mediating being of the Representative of Humanity, also known as the Christ being, a spiritual entity which stands between and harmonizes the two extremes.[3]

Is it my imagination or is ATSNN now becoming a voice for religious paranoia!

Article after article full of paranoid religious rantings. New world order, asteroid collision coverups initiating NWO, satan disguised as aliens, leaders of arab nations satans hench men, atheists satans followers, leaders of western governments part of the NWO.

JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!

Where has all the reasoned questioning and debate of news events gone?

The idea that all Aliens visiting Earth are malevolent and part of Satan's army is truly ridiculous. Also why does Satan even need an army when his technology is already superior to anything humanity has. If these Aliens wanted to destroy humanity and take this planet, they could probably do so without even breaking into a sweat. Using the same reasoning as Mr. Marzulli, according to the bible these demon's (aka Aliens) have been sitting on our doorstep for thousands of years. If they wanted to destroy us, then what are they waiting for.

Let's just say that he's right. So what's the master plan for surviving the end times. Oh you don't have one, because there's nothing to worry about. Have faith, because big G (aka God) is coming to save you. How can anyone be so naive and gullible. One things for certain, you'll be easy pickings. Enjoy hell

Sorry to get off topic, but it is relevant. In regards to the bible. If the bible is the word of God, then why does God speak in riddles. You mean to tell me that the all mighty, all intelligent creator of the universe doesn't understand Hebrew. Common sense tells me that people who speak in riddles, do so because they don't want you to know the truth and if they don't want you to know the truth, then they are out to decieve you. I for one won't be relying on God to save my ass, if and when the **** hits the fan. I personally don't believe this nonsense, therefore it isn't going to happen. I see and believe in a wonderous future for humanity and all it will take is for humanity to believe in itself, so please drop the negative attitude. It helps no one.

P.S I can only imagine if some of you people were given your own universe to reside over. My guess is that it wouldn't last long. You'd probably will it to destruction.