What other verified ancient settlements/indications of civilization are there?

i suppose it shouldn't be a surprise with the ore mountains up river or sea or oceanus

Why are ll the old settlements in the middle east and none in central or southern america / africa

Strictly speaking, although many are in the middle east, not all are. Feel free to list any you think are missing. I generally tend to stick with Old World settlements, signs of civilization, but others are welcome.

reply to post by WingedOne

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Nice thread cormac, i'll see if i can think of any you've missed.

(edit to add)

You've already mentioned some of these so just ignore those.

Harappa, Mohenjodaro, Lothal and Dholavira which were part of the Indus Valley Civilization which traded with mesopotamia. Dates vary but an approximate of 2500bc with the two largest city's of Harappa and Mohenjodaro but its earliest begginings can be traced back to Mehrgarh around 6000bc approximately. The Mehrgarh site is fascinating if you havent read much about it.

Indus Valley Civilization

Tyre - 2750bc

Carthage - 800bc? (the founding of Carthage is an interesting story)

The Erlitou culture - 2000bc (China)

The Erligang culture in China - 1600bc. (China)

Anuradhapura - 900bc?

Chichen Itza - 600ad (Sth America)

Ujuxte - 1200bc (Guatemala i think)

San Lorenzo Tenochtitlán - 1200bc (Olmec)

mojo




[edit on 20/1/08 by mojo4sale]

[edit on 20/1/08 by mojo4sale]

6000 BC - Vinča - Serbia

About Vinča script
Some scholars believe that the Vinča symbols represent the earliest form of writing ever found, predating ancient Egyptian and Sumerian writing by thousands of years.

More to read:
www.rastko.org.yu...
www.philipcoppens.com...

Wiki:
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Vojvoda

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Based on The Tărtăria tablets, which some are claiming as the oldest writing ever found, it's still being hotly debated as there is some uncertainty over the stratigraphic dating, but who knows it may well turn out to be true.


There is also evidence that Chinese writing may be much older than previously thought due to the discovery of some carvings near Damaidi which would push the date back to around 7000bc. Mind you these claims have yet to be proven either.

Damaidi carvings

With both of these claims it should be noted that the symbols may not represent writing at all but merely abstract scribbles that meant nothing other than to the person who drew them. But there is always the possibility that they are too.
Also both of the country's/regions involved have a vested interest in promoting the claims as well.

so you are suggesting there is more of a vested interest than usual?

Well it *may* have something to do with the fact Middle East is considered the birthplace of civilization, with good reason too: there are lots of really old cities in the area.

That said, there are older central/south American cities too, such as Caral from 2000 BC. In Africa, I seem to recall ancient circle shaped settlements that I've seen on Discovery made out of stone (much of it remain today), unfortunetly I dont remember age or names.

Actually if you read article in Wiki Tărtăria tablets are part of Vinča culture. Look at omniglot link I posted and you'll see that's the same.

reply to post by Vojvoda

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Yes i know, which is why i linked to The Tărtăria tablets as they are the more well known of the artifacts discovered to date with the symbols/writing that you were talking about.
The link i provided clearly stated they were thought to be associated with the Vinca culture.

Parta, I think I'll take this one for mojo4sale. A lot of times scientific institutions among others can be alot like kids. Everyone is trying to be or trying to prove that their finds are the oldest, the biggest or the most advanced. They will even pump vast resources into their individual views to persuade others they are right. Hence the "vested interest".

mojo4sale, hope I didn't step on your toes.

i see because it seemed like he might be implying that those regions were more prone to falsehoods and exaggeration. its actaully funny how absolute our ignorance [being dumb] and vanity are here in the west.

No Parta, I haven't been here very long by my impression is that mojo4sale is a pretty level headed individual.

As to the other; ignorance, greed and vanity aren't regional specific, you can find that worldwide.

now you have added greed. is this like the freudian board kreepin in here?

there is a distinct difference between western greed and eastern greed eastern greed is based on the highest levels manufacturing ignorance. western greed is based on natural ignorance to the highest levels.

I am no psychologist. I just believe that if Person A is trying to sway people that his find is older, bigger or more advanced than Person B's, whether it is or not, and he pumps enough resources into promoting it with the expectation that the personal or professional payoff will be substantially large, GREED is a factor. Doesn't matter where it happens. Does it happen on a large scale, probably not. But I believe it does happen.

i don't know exactly who is spending the money you speak of. it isn't anyone in the carpathian basin. is it china? who is spending the money to control the past and who is just keeping their mouth shut.

My reference was to what I believe mojo4sale was possibly referring to. As to where it happens specifically, I don't know. And its not always about money, that's why I said personally AND PROFESSIONALLY. I don't really believe its about controlling the past either, more about personal ego and impressing ones peers. I would have to say there is probably less to gain in the east than in the west.

cheers. may wonderful and incredible things happen in our times.

reply to post by mojo4sale

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Ok. I misunderstood you. Yes, Vinča culture wasn't mainly only in Serbia, but in Romania, too [Walachia].
I have book about Vinča culture.

reply to post by cormac mac airt

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Spot on cormac.

I certainly wasnt implying it is just those two country's that may have an agenda other than good solid archaeological work, they just happened to be 2 examples of recent claims that have yet to be confirmed by the scientific community. Certainly western country's are just as prone to exaggeration as eastern country's. Its human nature i guess.

Anyway, good thread, lets see if we cant add to cormacs timeline.

(ps) Could be worthwhile compiling a list of various timelines for the "Ancient and Lost Civs" forum.
Events that shaped civilization.
Natural disasters.
Wars.
Significant men and women that shaped civilization.
Trade routes.

If we had timelines for for all these subjects and others we may be able to see connections that might otherwise not be obvious. just a thought.

mojo.