Originally posted by Comma8Comma1
Seeing also as how you have a sovereign nation-state guarding (hiding) documents and artifacts of the church (Vatican City) instead of spreading the message and/or purpose of these relics makes me want to believe that Islam may be the less corrupt of the two.

If Christianity is right then why all the secrets? And why haven't you asked yourself "why must they keep knowledge about the word of god from me?"
Isn't Christ and his church supposed to be in all of us and belong to everyone?

I don't want to make this all about Christianity when this thread is specifically about the Koran but I have some things to say. Everything you just said is related to Catholicism. Catholicism is a branch of Christianity and is not the root of Christianity.

The Vatican relates to Catholicism. Many Christians (including myself) roll their eyes at the Vatican because we don't consider it to be any authority whatsoever, nevertheless the authority. Many Christians think the Catholic church is just as corrupt as most nonbelievers do. So we stay far away from it. Far away from their false doctrine and from their control. Yes, the Catholic system is immersed in mystery and concealment. Christianity in its originality would be a huge fan of the Freedom of Information Act. Not concealment. Jesus wanted to get the truth out there- not have it hidden away in vaults.

The Catholic church became the "in" thing thanks to Constantine when the church was sanctioned as the empire's religion. The original Jesus movement and Christianity was around for a few centuries before this.

So, gripe away at Catholic corruption. You'll have the support of tens of millions of Christians who will agree with you for what all they've done (like killing Christians caught with a copy of the Bible). Catholicism is only a branch- not the root- regardless of what all they like to claim. Christianity was never supposed to be an organized religion. It was a spiritual movement and, like you said, for all humanity. It was supposed to liberate- not confine.

[edit on 1/19/2008 by AshleyD]

Koran?? PAGAN ORIGINS??? Where, what the hell, where did Christmas come from???

My goodness, my hypocrisy meter needs a new dial!!!

Your condescending tone is noted so let's have some fun.

There's three Abrahamic faiths, all of which correlate with the belief system set before it.

I'm glad you believe this. This opens the door for my argument I didn't want to use before. The original "Abrahamic Relgion," Judaism, says that for all "new messages" God offers two things for verification: The doctrine will be attested to by at least two witnesses and this will be accompanied by miracles. Think along the lines of the two witnesses in Revelation. They, too, follow the "rule" set by "Abrahamic religions."

John the Baptist and Jesus were two witnesses. As in, they both came with the doctrine of the new Messiah. John as the forerunner and Jesus as the Messiah. Jesus confirmed His Messiah status and doctrine with miracles.

Mohammad was one person who issued a new doctrine as one man. This alone violates the "Abraham Religion" code of new doctrine. Mohammad himself admitted to the fact he could not perform miracles and no Muslim claims he could. He failed both tests of a prophet for new doctrine.

Now, this is completely unimportant and will sound like nonsense to someone who has no knowledge of the "Abrahamic religions." But since you have claimed "they are all Abrahamic religions" then Mohammad fails the test of his own belief system.

[edit on 1/19/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by mattguy404
I just found it odd that some elements of Christianity would single out Islam as being from pagan origins when so much of Christianity is obviously derived pagan traditions, vis-à-vis Christmas, Easter and so forth.

Please show me where the Easter bunny, December 25th, Easter eggs, and Christmas trees are mentioned in the Bible. They aren't. (Well, the trees are- and we are told not to decorate trees in our homes with ornaments and gold like the pagans do!). It is not a part of Christianity. Not remotely. Pagan rituals and concepts were meshed with Christian traditions (not doctrine!) already in existence centuries after the fact. Thanks, Constantine!

Anyways, this thread is about the Koran. As in Islam. Why does every religious thread turn into an examination of Christianity. I swear it's a conspiracy!

From my personal experience, I try to follow along the story and the charcters in the story.

The Koran doesn't jive with the "real story".

Much of the Koran is FAKED!

I've known it for years.

Oh, and I thought of something to add to this statement:

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
He never issued anything by himself.

Yes he did! He traveled the Middle East, evangelized his new religion orally, and converted by the sword. It's recorded history. No, he did not pass the written Koran around but...

Given the knowledge about the man, it's theoretically impossible that he created this doctrine by himself. The man couldn't read or write. Tell me how a man who lacks the key elements of communication could "issue" anything by himself?

...do you really have to be literate to have an active imagination in order to create a fraud? Or to receive epilepsy induced revelations? Come on.

What I mean was this:


Every charactor, like "the archangel gabriel" has a uniform set of jobs. Every charactor does...

IN the FAKEest aspect of the Koran, the book has angles doing other angel's jobs and such things that just don't happen.