Koran a FAKE

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posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by DeadFlagBlues
 



Agreed, instead of striving for peace and understanding these backward, simple folk
have to make it about wars, death, destruction, and hate.
So much for love thy neighbor.

No wonder L. Ron Hubbard pulled of the scam that is Scientology, stupid people are everywhere.

I just hope these Warriors of Christ don't elect Shuckabee.
Then we're all in for it.




posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by Comma8Comma1
 


There's a sucker born every second. A sucker who is afraid of life's end. I guess it's absolutely necessary to pointlessly bicker about who's right or wrong, when no one with a beating heart knows the answer.


In the 17th chapter of St. Luke it is written...

"Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you."


Let people do as they do. Act as they may. Enough of the trivial back and forth.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Comma8Comma1
Seeing also as how you have a sovereign nation-state guarding (hiding) documents and artifacts of the church (Vatican City) instead of spreading the message and/or purpose of these relics makes me want to believe that Islam may be the less corrupt of the two.

If Christianity is right then why all the secrets? And why haven't you asked yourself "why must they keep knowledge about the word of god from me?"
Isn't Christ and his church supposed to be in all of us and belong to everyone?


I don't want to make this all about Christianity when this thread is specifically about the Koran but I have some things to say. Everything you just said is related to Catholicism. Catholicism is a branch of Christianity and is not the root of Christianity.

The Vatican relates to Catholicism. Many Christians (including myself) roll their eyes at the Vatican because we don't consider it to be any authority whatsoever, nevertheless the authority. Many Christians think the Catholic church is just as corrupt as most nonbelievers do. So we stay far away from it. Far away from their false doctrine and from their control. Yes, the Catholic system is immersed in mystery and concealment. Christianity in its originality would be a huge fan of the Freedom of Information Act. Not concealment. Jesus wanted to get the truth out there- not have it hidden away in vaults.

The Catholic church became the "in" thing thanks to Constantine when the church was sanctioned as the empire's religion. The original Jesus movement and Christianity was around for a few centuries before this.

So, gripe away at Catholic corruption. You'll have the support of tens of millions of Christians who will agree with you for what all they've done (like killing Christians caught with a copy of the Bible). Catholicism is only a branch- not the root- regardless of what all they like to claim. Christianity was never supposed to be an organized religion. It was a spiritual movement and, like you said, for all humanity. It was supposed to liberate- not confine.

[edit on 1/19/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


I did stray a bit and went for the easy kill (excuse the pun) with a catholic attack. Please accept my apologies.

I just take issue with Heliosprime's stance. His OP seems less about informing and bringing new and interesting topics to ATS than it does as DeadFlag pointed out "to divide and conquer".

To claim someone's beliefs are false and that he's a "Moon God Slayer" after claiming Allah was and is a Moon God is just baiting. It's immature and frankly, quite scary.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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I would say the Koran is simply a demonic created religon, and what a suprise, they war against Christians and Jews...

Check the following link for some interesting info on this, yes it is from a Christian website however, the same data can be verified against on many secular websites as well, just do a google search on Allah Moon God.

www.chick.com...

The below was taken from the same website:

Pagan Origins

Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc.. These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born.

The Crescent Moon

What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewelry. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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This is going to sound incredibly un-P.C. and intolerant but I have to say I agree with Defcon and the original poster. Islam seems so skewed against Christianity and the Judaism (notice I did not say Muslims, Christians, and Jews referring to individuals).

We believe Satan and the "Antichrist spirit" has been trying to destroy the Jews and Christianity throughout history. If you take a quick peek throughout history you will see the Jews especially have been the target of extreme persecution and conspiracy theories. Christians are also killed mercilessly in the East and have been throughout history. Even internally by those claiming to be "Christians" although judging by their actions they were anything but.

If Satan cannot destroy us from the outside, he will try to destroy us from the inside in the form of apostasy or even the Catholic church merging with paganism. When Mohammad began his religion, he at first tried to get Jews and Christians (and specifically the Jews and Christians) to convert to Islam and what he deemed to be the true revelation from God via peace. We refused because we saw him for what he was- a false prophet who got his Satanic revelations through epileptic-like fits.

Even historians and Muslims know about Mohammad's transformation of character and refer to the eras in his life as the "Mecca Era" and the "Medina Era." After he failed to destroy us from the inside out through merger, he then declared a jihad against Christians and Jews and the slaughter ensued. Look into the history to see what he did especially to Christian communities. Read what the Koran and Hadith say about Christians and Jews. It's downright scary.

Jesus warned us that an Antichrist would arise and specifically target Jews and Christians. I don't think Islam is the Antichrist but it would not surprise me to see the Antichrist arise from Islam. Some passages in the Hadith (and I will admit not all Muslims accept the Hadith but they don't necessarily condemn it either) show a figure coming onto the world to usher in worldwide domination and a one world religion (things the Antichrist is supposed to do) and is supposed to specifically target, you guessed it, Jews and Christians who do not convert.

Are we seeing a pattern here? No, I detest Islam and what it stands form (notice again I did not say Muslims). I think Mohammad was a false prophet and we do not worship the same god. As others said, it is obvious Allah is a moon God although we are constantly told "Allah" is nothing more than an Arabic word for the Judeo-Christian and basically God in general. I'm not buying it even when I'm labeled politically incorrect for saying so.

I could go on and on but I think this is enough for now. No, I don't think there should be a huge religious war between Islam and Judaism and Christianity but I would like people to wake up. I'm sick of seeing Christianity and Judaism being attacked left and right, torn to shreds, surrounded by conspiracy theories but then Islam is the shining light deemed "The Religion of Peace." (Check out that link- it's a good one).



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 

Here is a good source indictaing who Allah and Muhammad really were/are.........

www.apologeticsindex.org...

Many will decry the source, but really, do you think the truth will come from muslim based sites?



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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Koran?? PAGAN ORIGINS??? Where, what the hell, where did Christmas come from???

My goodness, my hypocrisy meter needs a new dial!!!



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by mattguy404
 


No just a new scale and recalibration towards the truth................Islam was born of violent acts from Muhammad. Christianity was born of peace. Many will point to the crusades as christian violence, but in truth was a push back of Islamic aggression. The "turks, Ottomans, and Moor's" were all converting christians to Islam by the sword..



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


It wouldn't be considered politically incorrect, but probably just unintelligent. There's three Abrahamic faiths, all of which correlate with the belief system set before it. It's quite interesting to see the three interchange insults about one another. Cute little Don Quixotes, swinging away at windmills thinking they're enemies. This is probably the greatest example of all our social issues regarding religion. The human species tends to need something to be "against" rather than a need to "unite" completely. You can pick and choose your enemies, but your religion does not dictate those enemies. You do. How can so many people, fear their fellow man so much that it incites hatred and intolerance within them.

Just know there's some of us who sit back and laugh at all the Ostrich with their head in the ground and their butt in the air. Pity.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:00 PM
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Your condescending tone is noted so let's have some fun.


There's three Abrahamic faiths, all of which correlate with the belief system set before it.


I'm glad you believe this. This opens the door for my argument I didn't want to use before. The original "Abrahamic Relgion," Judaism, says that for all "new messages" God offers two things for verification: The doctrine will be attested to by at least two witnesses and this will be accompanied by miracles. Think along the lines of the two witnesses in Revelation. They, too, follow the "rule" set by "Abrahamic religions."

John the Baptist and Jesus were two witnesses. As in, they both came with the doctrine of the new Messiah. John as the forerunner and Jesus as the Messiah. Jesus confirmed His Messiah status and doctrine with miracles.

Mohammad was one person who issued a new doctrine as one man. This alone violates the "Abraham Religion" code of new doctrine. Mohammad himself admitted to the fact he could not perform miracles and no Muslim claims he could. He failed both tests of a prophet for new doctrine.

Now, this is completely unimportant and will sound like nonsense to someone who has no knowledge of the "Abrahamic religions." But since you have claimed "they are all Abrahamic religions" then Mohammad fails the test of his own belief system.

[edit on 1/19/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


He never issued anything by himself. Given the knowledge about the man, it's theoretically impossible that he created this doctrine by himself. The man couldn't read or write. Tell me how a man who lacks the key elements of communication could "issue" anything by himself?



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime
reply to post by mattguy404
 


No just a new scale and recalibration towards the truth................Islam was born of violent acts from Muhammad. Christianity was born of peace. Many will point to the crusades as christian violence, but in truth was a push back of Islamic aggression. The "turks, Ottomans, and Moor's" were all converting christians to Islam by the sword..



I'm not disputing Christianity as being relatively peaceful (heck, name me one of the Abrahamic religions that completely is?). I'm not a member of any religion, I just found it odd that some elements of Christianity would single out Islam as being from pagan origins when so much of Christianity is obviously derived pagan traditions, vis-à-vis Christmas, Easter and so forth.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by AshleyD
 


He never issued anything by himself. Given the knowledge about the man, it's theoretically impossible that he created this doctrine by himself. The man couldn't read or write. Tell me how a man who lacks the key elements of communication could "issue" anything by himself?


He supposedly had his "revelations" after going into epileptic-like fits. This is recorded history. His followers penned down his revelations after his death since, as you stated and as already stated multiple time in this thread, Mohammad was illiterate.

Saying that Judaism and Christianity were corrupt distortions and that Islam is the right way would have required the rule of prophetic testing. Not from one man who received his knowledge through seizures then, having everyone see through the scam, utilizing his only remaining option which was converting through the sword.

Then deny the crucifixion occurring when it is very well documented through secular and external Christian sources not including the Bible? Please! I'm not buying this.

[edit on 1/19/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by mattguy404
I just found it odd that some elements of Christianity would single out Islam as being from pagan origins when so much of Christianity is obviously derived pagan traditions, vis-à-vis Christmas, Easter and so forth.


Please show me where the Easter bunny, December 25th, Easter eggs, and Christmas trees are mentioned in the Bible. They aren't. (Well, the trees are- and we are told not to decorate trees in our homes with ornaments and gold like the pagans do!). It is not a part of Christianity. Not remotely. Pagan rituals and concepts were meshed with Christian traditions (not doctrine!) already in existence centuries after the fact. Thanks, Constantine!

Anyways, this thread is about the Koran. As in Islam. Why does every religious thread turn into an examination of Christianity. I swear it's a conspiracy!



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:37 PM
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From my personal experience, I try to follow along the story and the charcters in the story.

The Koran doesn't jive with the "real story".

Much of the Koran is FAKED!

I've known it for years.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:47 PM
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Oh, and I thought of something to add to this statement:


Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
He never issued anything by himself.


Yes he did! He traveled the Middle East, evangelized his new religion orally, and converted by the sword. It's recorded history. No, he did not pass the written Koran around but...


Given the knowledge about the man, it's theoretically impossible that he created this doctrine by himself. The man couldn't read or write. Tell me how a man who lacks the key elements of communication could "issue" anything by himself?


...do you really have to be literate to have an active imagination in order to create a fraud? Or to receive epilepsy induced revelations? Come on.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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What I mean was this:


Every charactor, like "the archangel gabriel" has a uniform set of jobs. Every charactor does...

IN the FAKEest aspect of the Koran, the book has angles doing other angel's jobs and such things that just don't happen.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Oh, but that would mean I'd have to read the whole bible
. I'm not disputing that true Christianity doesn't need to involve Christmas and Easter. They're major themes in some forms of Christianity though.

But back on track. Another poster mentioned Islam as being pagan in origin; I just haven't noticed it on the same level with Islam as I have with Christianity.

I guess I bought up the Christian bit because the other poster also described Christianity as being born out of peace, while they juxtaposed Islam as being born out of violence. It just seemed to me like they were trying to claim the 'high ground' when their whole religion is based on a man being nailed to a cross - that strikes me as being a bit violent. Other parts of the bible are also rather violent, as with the Koran.

However, I'm willing to listen to the facts of Islam as being born out of violence, but I'd also like hard proof of one form of religion that isn't.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Given that the only living record of the existence of the anointed one is in the New Testament seems to be the only substantiated evidence your guy has proving that he even existed. Contrasting and comparing the relevancy of intertwined religions is a waste of time and energy. Religious writing has proven itself to be very vague, and with good reason. To have bumbling idiots fighting over what is "truth." Fighting unsubstantiated claims with paralleled claims of their own doesn't make much sense to me. I would rethink my belief structure to be flawed, especially after the greed driven molestations of the "one true book" are taken into consideration. You know? Before Gutenberg and his pesky printing press came in and ended the thousand year transformation of the "written holy word of god" into the written word of the passing eras rich and powerful men. Comparing religious values from even interfaith religions seems quite pointless to me. And as regular people yourselves, I don't think you're qualified to say what is and isn't correct. You may come off impressive to your fellow believers, though to some of us, it just seems like simpletons patting each other on the back for a "job well done," when in retrospect you've achieved nothing but the perpetuation of simple thinking, petty remarks, and unnecessary resentment. That's why true peace and understanding will never come to us, and I hope you know that.





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