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Koran a FAKE

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posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Austin9599945
reply to post by heliosprime
 



you were online a while back but did not reply to my 2 posts.

Your reply would be greatly appreciated.




I did see page 11............................




posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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God — The Koran asserts that the god of Islam is the God of Christians and Jews (Sura 29:46). Nothing could be farther from the truth.7


The god of Islam, Allah, is most definitely not the God of the Bible. Allah is presented in the Koran as an autocratic ruler who is aloof and arbitrary (Sura 5:40). Allah is unknowable whereas the God of the Bible is knowable (2 Timothy 1:12). Allah is impersonal, unlike the personal God the Scriptures reveal (1 Peter 5:6-7). Allah is unitarian (Sura 4:48) whereas the God of the Bible is trinitarian (2 Corinthians 13:14). Here is what the Koran says about the God of the Bible (Sura 4:171): “Believe in Allah and say not ‘Trinity.’ Cease! It is better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from his transcendent majesty that he should have a son.” www.apologeticsindex.org...



This is what im talking about.You explained what you mean by personal by giving me an example of something that happened thousands of years ago.
I want to know HOW.
HOW is your god personal with people?
HOW is your god is right?HOW do you know?

And WHY do you think you have the right to bash Islam?Would Jesus do that?Would Jesus say "this is right,this is the truth,eat it.All other religions are infesting the world.I am right"
your approach to Islam is quite rude.
Dont copy and paste external sources please.Buy or borrow a Qur'an and show me a passage which prove its falsehood.

You claim that Islam is a lie.But with all due respect I highly DOUBT that a young man,on a debating website,has DISPROVED a major religion consisting of over 1 billion followers.

I want you to tell me right now HOW you are right about your God.What evidence is there??
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

please tell me what your evidence is



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by Iasion

Odd question.

The majority of muslims believe Jesus was a prophet.

Some believe he was a myth.



So are you muslim? I guess not if you don't believe what they believe or do you have the freedom to believe variations on the original theme?



posted on Feb, 8 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime

Why thank you, thats very nice of you to say.
(author tears up)

Truth need no PC "soft" approach. Sometimes a good slap is what it takes to get someones attention. Especially when no one is paying attention in the first place.


No. It's only common sense to know that approach is EVERYTHING when trying to make a point, or convince someone of something.

Even if what you say is true, the way you display yourself is butchering everything. People are automatically rejecting your views because of how ridiculous you are in expressing them.

This only leads to more problems and bashing.

If you want people to consider what you say, try your best to have a clean discussion about it, don't be so quick to close your mind, and approach nicely.



posted on Feb, 9 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Austin9599945

And WHY do you think you have the right to bash Islam?Would Jesus do that?Would Jesus say "this is right,this is the truth,eat it.All other religions are infesting the world.I am right"
your approach to Islam is quite rude.
Dont copy and paste external sources please.Buy or borrow a Qur'an and show me a passage which prove its falsehood.

You claim that Islam is a lie.But with all due respect I highly DOUBT that a young man,on a debating website,has DISPROVED a major religion consisting of over 1 billion followers.

I want you to tell me right now HOW you are right about your God.What evidence is there??
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

please tell me what your evidence is





Those who know the truth have FAITH. There are very, very few.

MY GOD is GOD. 'I am that I am". Choose not to believe, it is your choice. If you hear the truth and believe not, its YOUR loss.

As far as "bashing" islam............pointing out lies is not bashing.

There are no human words anywhere that can "make" you believe. But if you truely ask, pray to the true living GOD, repent in your heart, he will answer. It may not be instant, your eyes may be too tightly shut to see, but he will answer.

Seek the LORD with all your heart, keep his commandments, beileve that Jesus IS his son.

Do these things and you will have an answer. The proof you seek is all around you, you just need to reach out and take it.

On a technical basis, what the koran teaches is false, the book itself is a lie. Again the proof is everywhere.

The truth of Jesus was taught with love, and peace, and is still the largest on the planet 2.3 billion. Islam has always been spread thru the sword and is only 1.3 billion. One is accepted the other is forced.



posted on Feb, 9 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by heliosprime

Those who know the truth have FAITH. There are very, very few.

MY GOD is GOD. 'I am that I am". Choose not to believe, it is your choice. If you hear the truth and believe not, its YOUR loss.

As far as "bashing" islam............pointing out lies is not bashing.

There are no human words anywhere that can "make" you believe. But if you truely ask, pray to the true living GOD, repent in your heart, he will answer. It may not be instant, your eyes may be too tightly shut to see, but he will answer.

Seek the LORD with all your heart, keep his commandments, beileve that Jesus IS his son.

Do these things and you will have an answer. The proof you seek is all around you, you just need to reach out and take it.

On a technical basis, what the koran teaches is false, the book itself is a lie. Again the proof is everywhere.

The truth of Jesus was taught with love, and peace, and is still the largest on the planet 2.3 billion. Islam has always been spread thru the sword and is only 1.3 billion. One is accepted the other is forced.



Then what are you doing? You're not teaching the "truth" of Jesus with love OR peace. You're over here saying Islam is the work of Satan and that people should be Christians. What is that? That's no way to spread your "truth".

Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet, right now? And it's not by sword, these days. We would know if it was. The only spread-by-sword occurred centuries ago in the East. Today, it's legitimate.

If people want to have faith in something, regardless of being a lie, why is it your place to say they're wrong? If they end up going to Hell, according to your beliefs, is that really your problem? Why do you care? Shouldn't judgement be left to your God?

Right now, you're just bashing. To call a faith the work of Satan is nothing but bashing.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by Kyuubi]



posted on Feb, 9 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by Kyuubi
Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet, right now? And it's not by sword, these days. We would know if it was. The only spread-by-sword occurred centuries ago in the East. Today, it's legitimate.

If people want to have faith in something, regardless of being a lie, why is it your place to say they're wrong? If they end up going to Hell, according to your beliefs, is that really your problem? Why do you care? Shouldn't judgement be left to your God?

Right now, you're just bashing. To call a faith the work of Satan is nothing but bashing.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by Kyuubi]


Have you ever heard of the TALIBAN? That was not centuries ago. People will make their own choices, BUT, I would not be Chrisitan if I didn't tell them the truth. Judgement is the LORD's, but yet again, the great lie is the corruption of "thou shalt not judge". It is far from judgement to speak the truth about evil. It is not I who may condem them, but thier own actions. It is GOD who will judge them.

But the greatest LIE is to murder your way into heaven. Basically those who follow Islam and the koran believe they enter heaven through murder. You can't get more FAKE than that.



posted on Feb, 9 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by undo
So are you muslim? I guess not if you don't believe what they believe or do you have the freedom to believe variations on the original theme?


No,
I am not a muslim.

Not really sure what your point is here :-)


I.



posted on Feb, 9 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by Kyuubi
Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet, right now? And it's not by sword, these days. We would know if it was. The only spread-by-sword occurred centuries ago in the East. Today, it's legitimate.

If people want to have faith in something, regardless of being a lie, why is it your place to say they're wrong? If they end up going to Hell, according to your beliefs, is that really your problem? Why do you care? Shouldn't judgement be left to your God?

Right now, you're just bashing. To call a faith the work of Satan is nothing but bashing.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by Kyuubi]


Have you ever heard of the TALIBAN? That was not centuries ago. People will make their own choices, BUT, I would not be Chrisitan if I didn't tell them the truth. Judgement is the LORD's, but yet again, the great lie is the corruption of "thou shalt not judge". It is far from judgement to speak the truth about evil. It is not I who may condem them, but thier own actions. It is GOD who will judge them.

But the greatest LIE is to murder your way into heaven. Basically those who follow Islam and the koran believe they enter heaven through murder. You can't get more FAKE than that.


I respected your last post to me.you basically said what I was waiting for.That christianity is a faith-based Religion.

but,you SEEM to have an outlook that all,(or many),muslims are terrorists.(ie.-kill christians,martyr for your virgins,Taliban etc)

Im quite sure you dont REALLY feel this way.But it SEEMS like it.

Also...screw numbers.
1.2+ billion muslims.
2+ billion christians.

I dont care.
Numbers mean nothing,im speaking to you and kyuubi also.
Cuz there were alot of Nazis,and they weren't right.

And yes,upon research I found that the Koran,or Qur'an had a powerful ideology of military to spread the faith.
Christianity,too,was spread by the sword,weilded first by Roman hands after the Emperor Constantine raised it from eccentric cult to official religion,then by the crusaders,and later by the conquistadors and other European invaders and colonists,with missionary accompaniment.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by Austin9599945]



posted on Feb, 9 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by heliosprime
 


What a load of absolute malarky!!
'If you believe, then it must be true!' is your basic assertion. Which of course, is ridiculous! Using that incredibly flawed logic of yours - I guess that means if I believe in The Tooth Fairy - with ALL my heart - REALLY believe, that is - then he will answer me and I'll know he's real...

Ahem...right.

By the way, The Bible is just as ficticious as most other religious books. It's really no different. There is plenty of real, concrete evidence out there to support that statement too. As I've proven on ATS over and over again....

'We have more followers than you - therefore we are the REAL religion'???

Puleeeze!

J.

[edit on 9-2-2008 by jimbo999]



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by heliosprime
 


You are a fool to declare something truth or lie when religion is, in fact, a matter of faith. Don't get faith confused with anything else, for just because you have faith in something doesn't mean it is truth.

No earthly being can ever know the truth about what scriptures claim to hold.

Kudos to Austin and Jimbo.

Christians have had their fair share of violence for converts, as I've said before, but you so obviously ignored.

I agree with Jimbo. Your "logic" is ridiculous. Amen to his good words. Hah.



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Austin9599945

but,you SEEM to have an outlook that all,(or many),muslims are terrorists.(ie.-kill christians,martyr for your virgins,Taliban etc)

Im quite sure you dont REALLY feel this way.But it SEEMS like it.


[edit on 9-2-2008 by Austin9599945]


Lets be clear, TODAY, it is muslims who murder to get into heaven. Who say convert or die. It is muslim who are misguided by an evil book. The koran attached to an evil murderer named muhammad.

Hate muslims..........NO, hate the lie they follow they call "religion of peace".

I would not call Constantine a christian, he was a pagan using the "hot" religion of the day to corrupt the same religion. Nor would I call the spanish inquisition christian. More power hungry pagans. Nor would I call Catholics christian, for they worship idols, and pray to false gods.



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Kyuubi

I agree with Jimbo. Your "logic" is ridiculous. Amen to his good words. Hah.


Who siad anything about "logic"? It is you, the individual that chooses not to believe. As a famous TV show once said so very well. "The truth is out there" It is up to you to find it, it is all around you, everywhere, in the very air you breath, the food you eat, everythng you touch. The LORD GOD is everywhere. It is YOU who is blind, and deaf.



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime

Who siad anything about "logic"? It is you, the individual that chooses not to believe. As a famous TV show once said so very well. "The truth is out there" It is up to you to find it, it is all around you, everywhere, in the very air you breath, the food you eat, everythng you touch. The LORD GOD is everywhere. It is YOU who is blind, and deaf.


Well, you're basically saying that whatever you believe is truth. That's what I mean by your "logic", originally stated by Jimbo.

The truth is out there, indeed. It's not in a book. The way to truth is the study of the world around us, NOT your book of faith that you so claim is absolute truth.

"I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation."

-Carl Sagan.

My basic notion is that Earthly beings will never know the truth of what scriptures claim. Religion is purely an act of faith. It's impossible to declare it truth and be taken seriously.



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by Kyuubi

"I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation."

-Carl Sagan.

My basic notion is that Earthly beings will never know the truth of what scriptures claim. Religion is purely an act of faith. It's impossible to declare it truth and be taken seriously.


"Carl Sagan"...


Mr. There is no god himself...........


There are many whose mind is shut tight and locked with layers of locks from satans minions. One of the greatest lies is that science is anti-faith. Those who lok deep enough into science find GOD looking back at them.

In your world "all truth is equal"? It is only what you choose to believe. Therefore by your "logic" there is no truth. The truth of GOD surrounds you everywhere. Again it is you who is blind.

There are those who will never "get-it". "It" is too hard, or inconvienient. For Islam the evil of the world is "non-muslim" and they must convert or die. This must be done NOW in this age of man.

GOD lets those who do not believe exist "NOW" gives then a choice, and in the end, they shall perish. IF they don't repent.

Again the koran requires murder as a shortcut to get to heaven. Jesus requires faith, gave his grace, and requires obedience to his fathers rules. The koran subverts those rules by murder, and lies, and worshiping falsely on the wrong day (friday).



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by heliosprime
There are those who will never "get-it". "It" is too hard, or inconvienient. For Islam the evil of the world is "non-muslim" and they must convert or die. This must be done NOW in this age of man.

This is according to you? Or the Quran?



Originally posted by heliosprime
Again the koran requires murder as a shortcut to get to heaven. Jesus requires faith, gave his grace, and requires obedience to his fathers rules. The koran subverts those rules by murder, and lies, and worshiping falsely on the wrong day (friday).

This is according to you? Or the Quran?

PS: If you believe in God, you should probably be worshiping everyday. And muslims don't take friday as the sabbath day, just a day of congregation. They believe that the sabbath restriction was lifted (you could probably see that start of that with Jesus too).



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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"Carl Sagan"...


Mr. There is no god himself...........


YEAH...lol..mr there is no god himself.Guy was an idiot!.......right???

Mr professor of astronomy and space sciences and director of the labratory for planetary studies at cornell university.

Mr "I played a very key leading role in the mariner,viking,and voyager spacecraft expeditions to the planets,for which I received twice the NASA medal for Exceptional Scientific Achievement."
\Mr Pulitzer Prize winner and also winner of the highest awards of both the National Academy of sciences and the national science foundation.And many other medals for science,literature,education,and the preservation of the environment.

Mr "My book Cosmos(along with my Emmy and peabody Award-winning tv series with the same name) was the best selling science book ever published in the English language,and my best selling novel contact was turned into a major motion picture."

Mr "I was aming the first to alert the public to the danger of global warming and the potential climatic consequences of nuclear war.

in the 1980's Mr "I initiated the campaign to forge an alliance between religioin and science to protect the environment."

PSH yeah..THAT^ guy.
man that dude didnt have nothing to show for.

Nothing like Heliosprime...HE's got an account on ATS bro!
....kid's decked out in knowledge.Oviously Sagans got NOTHING on him.

Sagan never flat out said there was no god.He was by far much more of an agnostic then An atheist.He was looking for the truth.We havent even sent a satelite to the nearest star aside from the sun...we know of only one star(our sun)one out of 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.So if we havent even STARTED our journey...why assume we have all the answers?Are you affraid of hell?is that why?you know alot of studies suggest a believers belief is a deep need to be loved.is this you my friend?Are you ok in life?People like me are trying to find answers ok??How long would your PRECIOUS LITTLE CHURCH have kept KILLING people for saying "the earth is not at the center of the universe"people like you WANT and NEED to feel special."Pleaseee please just let us assume we're at the center of the SOMETHING"your belief is not based of facts.Its based on a deep seated NEED to believe.Thats why you cant convince a believer.Its internal.its in your ..


ask yourself this Heliosprime..
"Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?"
-carl Sagan.
you are probably a very educated Lad,no?So why dont you channel your nowledge for good??
you call other people closed minded..but..you are very conceded in your belief of god.
You KNOW without a doubt your god is real....HOW do you know.How CAN you know?Is it because your mom and dad are christian?Are you from America?Were you born into a christian family?Im telling you right now if you were born in India you wouldnt be christian.The slight ACCIDENT that you were born here made you become a christian.OF COURSE you will deny this.

people like you dont understand that there are extremist on BOTH sides of religion."HAHA our religion has killed less we are the best!".....ok thats you.The terrorist are the MINORITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY....get....that....through...your.....



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by Austin9599945
 



Sagan was an idiot. He just had a nice voice for TV. More idiots........

I love how "discovering" what has been around since creation is somehow "godlike" to the masses of idiots. Sagan was a very accomplished "money raiser" for his cause.


"GOD is" it's that simple. To those who truly seek him, "HE IS". To those who do not seek his wisdom, he "IS NOT". Their eyes are shut since before they "looked".

My GOD is "GOD!", end of story, he is "THE GOD, THE ONLY GOD" all others are fake. Jesus is his son and MY saviour.

Arrogant? perhaps, more likely "humble". Seeing that there is someone greater than "man", and all the silly self glorifying modern arrogance.

The end of this age is soon. It is time to understand reality. GOD is real. allah is a fake. the koran is fake, islam is evil. muhammad was fake.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime

Their eyes are shut since before they "looked".


"Deny ignorance."
-Above Top Secret

You shut your eyes before you could consider science, the study of the world around us. Hypocracy.

Agnosticism has a meaning, sir.

Here.

www.dictionary.com

Agnosticism and "shut eyes" are complete opposites.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Sagan was an idiot.

Evidence please?Granted,the things he tought on cosmos were genrally simple.Stars galaxies nebulas,simple history lessons.But thats because he had to speak on societies level.He couldnt get into things too i depth or people would be lost.So im assuming this is what you mean by him being "an idiot".And if this isnt what you mean.Step up to the plate heliosprime and show us what YOU have to show for....show us your best selling novels and your awards.Show us the companies YOU are president of.The man was a key player is NASA.That is huge helios.You're claim is retarded.



I love how "discovering" what has been around since creation is somehow "godlike" to the masses of idiots. Sagan was a very accomplished "money raiser" for his cause.


Again,he had to speak on SOCIETIES level.Money raiser?yes,he did raise public awarness of important topics.How are you gonna scorn a human for this?



"GOD is" it's that simple.

God is?How do you know this?Because you read the bible?A theological standpoint is not simple.It requires dissecting and examination.You seem to dissagree.Since you were raised on a certain religion(which just HAPPENS to be the majority religion of this country)you believe every word you were raised on.

To those who truly seek him, "HE IS". To those who do not seek his wisdom, he "IS NOT". Their eyes are shut since before they "looked".

Again,dude,you're eyes are shut.Im willing to learn about anything and everything.YOU are CONVINCED that you are right.Who's in the wrong?you my friend,you.


My GOD is "GOD!", end of story, he is "THE GOD, THE ONLY GOD" all others are fake. Jesus is his son and MY saviour.

"Allah is God(only god) and muhhamad is his messanger" that is the backbone of Islam.Sounds alot like yours eh?

Arrogant? perhaps, more likely "humble". Seeing that there is someone greater than "man", and all the silly self glorifying modern arrogance

Really?there is someone higher than man.Prove it.....
Oh thats right...you can't.Also you dont want to.You have to have FAITH.(belief without evidence)


The end of this age is soon. It is time to understand reality. GOD is real. allah is a fake. the koran is fake, islam is evil. muhammad was fake.

You would make a great Puritan age sermon.Striking fear into everyone's heart.




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