Koran a FAKE

Originally posted by Unlettered
This verse of the Qur’an compelled Dr. Maurice Bucaille, who was a Christian then, to study the Qur’an. He later wrote a book ‘The Bible, the Qur’an and Science’, and confessed that the author of the Qur’an can be no one else besides God Himself. Thus he embraced Islam.

Typical of satanic lies, SATAN wrote the koran. The entire purpose was to fool the weak minded into worshipping a false god called allah (satan himself)



[edit on 24-1-2008 by heliosprime]

Here's some new questions to add to the mix. I know it is all on Wikipedia and elsewhere on the internet but sometimes the information can be false. So, I thought I'd go straight to the source on here since everyone has been helpful in answering questions:

1) What is the story behind the Hadith, how did it come about, who wrote it, and when? I know they are traditional sayings of Mohammad but...

2) Why are they not included in the Koran? Is the Hadith not believed to be "inspired," as in coming from "Allah" or "Gabriel?"

3) Why do some Muslims accept the Hadith and others reject it? Why do some consider it a valuable source of information and others pay it little (if any) attention?

[edit on 1/24/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by kangjia57


Those aren't the sources the initial argument is talking about. Rather, the article Heliosprime posted, from "ACT for America!" makes claims that secret historical documents "prove" that the Koran is "fake." The premise for this is that something is lost in the translations. Whoopty-doo, right?

So we have some dude who claims that Islam is the religion of Satan posting an article claiming that because Semitic languages tend to translate poorly that the entire religion is false, from a website that makes no bones about its opposition to Islam, Muslims, and every Middle eastern State and Ethnic group besides Israeli Jews.

Sorry if the noise my eyes make while I roll them bothers you

Thanks for the corrections on the "versions" of the Koran though.

Originally posted by heliosprime


Typical of satanic lies, SATAN wrote the koran. The entire purpose was to fool the weak minded into worshipping a false god called allah (satan himself)



[edit on 24-1-2008 by heliosprime]

LOL is that a joke? hahahaha

[edit on 24-1-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by AshleyD
1) What is the story behind the Hadith, how did it come about, who wrote it, and when? I know they are traditional sayings of Mohammad but...

The Hadith aren't really a definitive, or 'planned' collection of books. The Quran says that the Prophet Muhammad is the 'best example' and that we should follow what he says. Because of this, all the things he said and did are considered important by muslims.

Originally, his sayings were transmitted by oral tradition, with the chain of narrators included, going from the speakers themselves, to someone who heard it directly from the Prophet. I think start of writing it all down came some 15-20 years after Muhammad died. There are four major collections of Hadith which are used today. Every hadith in the collection can have a different level of reliability.
The checking can be done by making sure there is an uninterrupted chain of narrators going up to contemporaries of Muhammad, or they can be checked by seeing the reliability of the narrators in the chain (whether any other hadith by them has been faked), by cross-referencing them with other, verified hadith, or by cross-referencing or comparing them to the Quran.

Originally posted by AshleyD
2) Why are they not included in the Koran? Is the Hadith not believed to be "inspired," as in coming from "Allah" or "Gabriel?"

While there are a few hadith that Muhammad says are instructions from Allah (that were not included in the Quran), most are sayings of the Prophet, narrations of something he did (which is therefore allowed), narrations of something he permitted, and narrations of things he prohibited.

Originally posted by AshleyD
3) Why do some Muslims accept the Hadith and others reject it? Why do some consider it a valuable source of information and others pay it little (if any) attention?

It all has to do with authenticity. Some people say that 'If one is wrong, all can be wrong', and thus don't accept any. Others accept only the highest level of authentic Hadith. Others even accept a few lower levels. The problem today is that in most cases the chain of narrators is not included in the Hadith when it is mentioned, and most people are too lazy to check it up.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by babloyi]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Truth is like a nice soaking rain on a warm summer day. If the rain falls on grass and soil, it is absorbed and is used to grow living things. But if the rain falls on rocks, it rolls off the rock and helps not the "dead" thing grow. True helps a living thing grow, yet can't be abosrbed by the dead.....

False teachings are like acid rain, everywhere it falls it destroys everything, ever the rocks crumble, and if enough falls on the living thing, it will also die.

The koran is false teaching and is destroying all living and even dead things in its path. Those who convert will die, those who stand in its way are disolved and destroyed. Those who absorb its poison murder those who refuse..............

A truely false teaching must jealously destroy anyone who questions it. For even a small bit of truth and light will destroy the lie.............

That is why isalm so strongly over reacts to any challenge or cartoon, why the imam's send out masses to riot, because they FEAR anything that may question the great LIE.

The gospel of Jesus plants seeds of truth, those who accept it grow into immortality, the rock remain rocks of ignorance.

Islam crushes the rocks to make the evil seed grow.

The majority of muslims are peaceful and don't want war. There's nothing wrong with the Koran, only the interpretation of it and the values that reside within the interpreters. If one wants the koran to represent evil then one can pick and choose parts to back one's evil endeavors. The same can be said of the bible.

Don't condemn the book or those who follow the book because of the actions of a small few intent on twisting the meaning of the book to fit their own goals.

Heliosprime, after reading through your posts on this thread that are nothing short of hatred of another faith, belief, and cultural value-system thinly wrapped in an intellectual presentation, you have well and truely shot your own arguement down with this gem...

Originally posted by heliosprime
A truely false teaching must jealously destroy anyone who questions it. For even a small bit of truth and light will destroy the lie.............

The gospel of Jesus plants seeds of truth, those who accept it grow into immortality, the rock remain rocks of ignorance.

You are a Christian in all but faith

reply to post by citizen smith


Yet again the misguided see TRUTH as hate. Telling the world the truth about Islam and the Koran does not mean I hate muslims. They are misguided by a false doctorine that does require HATE and Murder to be in the cluches of Islam.

Peace in Islam is only allowed and reserved for MUSLIMs. All others must convert of die..............

Christianity allows choice, but that choice may lead to eternal death.

reply to post by heliosprime


Your notion of true and false is completely asinine. You can't base that entire notion on what you see. It's very much senseless to make a judgement such as that via speculation of the PEOPLE of the religion.

You claim that Islam provides for no choice; that "Peace in Islam is only allowed and reserved for Muslims" and that "all others must convert or die."

You claim that it's false; that Allah is a false God.

THEN you go on saying that Christianity is the truth and that it "allows choice."

If you want truth then you look in the book itself. Look in the book. Read it, analyze it, then believe what you want. Don't rely on some article you found for the truth. I'm not saying it's not true...but if you really want to get down to the truth, you must do this by verifying your little article. This requires reading the Quran.

And if you weren't so blind you'd see that many Muslims ARE peaceful people. They may be arrogant in their belief, at times(then again, look at you), but they truly are nice. Part of the purpose of Islam is to bring peace to our small world by means of peace for everyone. You don't have to be Islamic to get peace. Those Muslims that spread terror instead of peace because of religious differences are stupid extremists who aren't practicing their religion properly. Those friendly Muslims in your own community (although sometimes arrogant) that practice peace regardless of religious differences are doing things properly.

The entire core of Islam is based on free will. Choice. You must earn your way into heaven through goodness, obedience, faith, and love for God. In Islam, one never knows if they are going to Heaven or Hell.

As or "conver or die", haven't Christians done the SAME THING? In almost all religions, the scripture states that if denied, Hell awaits. At least in this case, it's true for Christianity AND Islam.

Did you know that the Christian God and the Islamic one are supposedly the same? "Allah" isn't some strange name of a God. "Allah" simply translates into "God", from Arabic. Stop making it sound like such a bizarre thing.

As for your "truth", it's impossible. One cannot know the absolute truth. You are ridiculous in criticizing another belief system, declaring it false while claiming yours the one and only truth. No one in this world can EVER know the truth of the afterlife. You are unintelligent in claiming you know the truth.

Religion is an act of faith. It takes faith to follow, and faith alone. It's impossible to declare any of it truth and be taken seriously, especially in places like these.

I suggest you go on a long journey of research. Maybe then your sentiments will change.

Just do one thing. Ask yourself if your Jesus would want you to be here, bashing other faiths with such offensive claims. Or would he rather you spread love and peace like those that you ridicule so much? You truly are a horrid example of a Christian. It's people like you that make Christianity look bad. The same way the Muslims you choose to see make their own religion look bad.

reply to post by heliosprime


Okay. I'm going to go out on a limb and take you at face value. How would you suggest we go about "correcting" Muslims. It seems to me that your solution to this is getting in their face, telling them everything they believe is a lie, that they serve satan, and are going to suffer eternal torment at the hands of your kind, loving, gentle god.

Is this how a Christian should try to win others over to the faith of Jesus, by screaming in their faces about what terrible people they are?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by heliosprime

 

Okay. I'm going to go out on a limb and take you at face value. How would you suggest we go about "correcting" Muslims. It seems to me that your solution to this is getting in their face, telling them everything they believe is a lie, that they serve satan, and are going to suffer eternal torment at the hands of your kind, loving, gentle god.

Is this how a Christian should try to win others over to the faith of Jesus, by screaming in their faces about what terrible people they are?

The only part you got wrong was the eternal suffering. The wages of sin are death, eternal death. There is no "eternal torment" only the final death in the lake of fire.

Muslims already know the truth about Christ and reject him in favor of muhammad.

Originally posted by heliosprime
Typical of satanic lies, SATAN wrote the koran. The entire purpose was to fool the weak minded into worshipping a false god called allah (satan himself)

One would hope that Satan would do a better job of fooling the weak-minded than the Koran. Have you ever tried to read it? I personally find it to be a jumbled mishmash, slammed with non-sequiturs, much of it unintelligible. Just read some of the second book, "The Cow," and see what you think.

quod.lib.umich.edu...

I personally imagine Satan to be a bit more articulate, consistent, and having perhaps a passing acquaintance with Strunk & White.

And to any orthodox folks out there, please don't go all fatwah on me. It's just my opinion, and the only thing you should worry about is why you would feel threatened if the Truth is really on your side.

P.S. -- I should add that most Christians have never read the Bible, either. So I don't expect them to dig into the Koran much. I've always thought that one of the most evil things Satan could do to lure Christians away from their faith is to encourage them to actually read the Bible.

[edit on 4-2-2008 by Nohup]

What is "Fake"?

I've seen people, whom I agree with in context, speak of how the Koran is Fake on this thread and then speak about how the "antichrist" will come up out of the religion based around the Koran.

I have to ask, what is this "Fake"?

If it was "fake" it would hold no weight on the spiritual wargames.
Right?
Wrong?
What?

If the Koran is less real, does it have to be fake? If the devil sent an "angel" to speak on the behalf of "Gabriel" (a lie) does this make the document fake?

Originally posted by Incarnated
What is "Fake"?

That's a reasonable question. I think that the most the article and others like it suggest is that the Koran as it is written now is not the perfectly presented word of God (Allah) some people think it is. I don't think it determines one way or another whether Mohammed actually had experiences talking with an angel (or whatever it may have been). As with most supernatural encounters, there's no debunking to be done, since it's just one person's word. Did Mohammed actually communicate with a supernatural entity of some sort? Who knows?

Same thing I guess applies to the Book of Mormon, or Ohaspe, or your favorite, the Urantia Book.

So it's not that the Koran is "fake," as the Subject title says. It's more that the assembled written and oral fragments of Mohammed's tale did go though some period of editing and revision. Complete heresy, according to the orthodox, in the same way some fundamentalist Christians consider the Bible to be the full true and accurate word of God. Except that ever since the Inquisition closed shop, Christians are a little less likely to kill you for saying so. Some Muslims would just as soon see you dead, so that Allah can personally show you the error of your ways.

[edit on 4-2-2008 by Nohup]

Originally posted by Incarnated
I've seen people, whom I agree with in context, speak of how the Koran is Fake on this thread and then speak about how the "antichrist" will come up out of the religion based around the Koran.

There's a pretty simple explanation. The prophecies of the Antichrist were already well in circulation by this point. As in 500 years at least and up to 1,200 years if you include the Old Testament prophets who warned of his coming. All one has to do is take who the Bible describes as being bad and use those same descriptions to say that person will be good. You don't have to have any supernatural foresight to take something already in existence and put a spin on it.

Regardless, the prophecies of the Mahdi are not in the Koran but in the Hadith.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Regardless, the prophecies of the Mahdi are not in the Koran but in the Hadith.

Good point, but, the basis of the "belief" is the Koran and it's extention is the 12er's. Just as the bible is the basis, but, many believe in the rapture, which also isn't in the bible. The movements are similar but from opposite directions. The 12er's are moving toward armageddon to bring on the madi, the rapture folks don't care because they believe they won't be around. Both anticipate horrific times to come, one to escape the other to bring their false messiah. But both may be fooled into believing a single entity is the fulfillment of both prophesy's.

That is why the Koran being fake is important...........

My only comment would be, after reading 6 pages of this thread, why on earth did ATS decide to include Religious discussion on this board???? It will never lead to any meaningful discussion and can only lead to dissent. I believe the powers that be at ATS are most unwise if they let this continue. Nothing worthwhile comes of these threads; Ever! Its just a playground for hateful, hurtful people to apply their craft.

Originally posted by babloyiAs for the whole '72 virgins' thing, the whole idea is based off a misconception. The Quran doesn't say 'virgins' at all. It mentions 'beautiful companions', or 'companions with beautiful eyes'. It doesn't even mention a sex. They are there for both males and females. It doesn't even mention only martyrs. They are there for all who enter heaven.

Not sure why you take issue as "72 virgins" doesn't mention a sex either

reply to post by heliosprime


Spoken like a truly ignorant man. I shouldn't expect anything better from you, should I? You do understand that 'Isa (Jesus) is the most-quoted prophet in the Koran?

Maybe you should spend your time ranting about Mormons, since really, they've got the same deal going with "Jesus was a prophet but not the last prophet"