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Pseudoskeptics and Disinformants on ATS

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posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 04:54 AM
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Sky, spot on!! Starred and flagged!


Now why is it that I don't see the 'known', so called skeptics coming out with a riposte on this thread? Have they run for cover already?

And as what someone said in a post above, proof is what is required. But even if a UFO lands in the backyard, they'd say that that ain't no proof! It could be a holographic projection by one of those so called black projects!

And if an ET emerged, shook his hands and had a glass of beer with him on the front lawn, it would be said that that's no proof either. It was just a mind control experiment being conducted by MKULTRA!!

And if hundreds of eyewitnesses including airline employees and pilots say they saw a gray, metallic, disc-shaped craft hovering over Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport, these guys will say that that's just not proof either! It's just hallucination as a result of fumes emanating from a nearby broken sewage line! Or probably mass hallucination by David Blaine who was catching the United Airlines flight that same day! And oh yes! That was a weather phenomenon after all!


So is proof quantifiable?




posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
So is proof quantifiable?


Personally I would say, yes it is. However I don't think that trying to avoid rigid thinking will be well served by replacing one hidebound attitude with a new one, in other words I would hate to see the Pope of proof appear with all his or her little proof Nazis... Just a general rational attitude that promotes fundamental rational thinking about these amazing topics rather than any wild statement, even irrational ones, being not just accepted and read but sort of tacitly promoted. There's a difference between being welcoming and being encouraging of divergent views, and I think extreme views might need to pass a robustness test- a street fighter test of how thick skinned an OP can be when they say something that any sane person KNOWS is almost a troll post based on its subject matter.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
In 4 years of reading ATS I have become convinced that a troop of paid-disinformants



Originally posted by intrepid
Do we get disinfo agents? I think so. There's a couple I'm DAMN sure of.


I'm not so sure. Pseudoskeptics, yes of course, but agents, paid agents???

I'm just going to ask you some questions. Who pays them? The government, corporations? Why? Do you really think the government is involved? Do you really think ATS is that much of a threat?



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 



You hit the arrogant pseudo-skeptical nails a severe blow on their flimsy house-of-cards self-inflating heads.

Good one.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 06:10 AM
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But the mentality of the believers of some posters is on par with the small amount of disinfo agents. Examples;

I got accused of having an agenda for sticking up for innocent Israelis,
attacked for disproving and adding skeptical thought to a 9/11 thread and being apart of the establishment for not supporting Ron Paul.

The cult like thinking and activity of some groups on ATS are becoming very dangerous for all us.

I'm not being hostile, just like to highlight that if you don't believe something or prove something inaccurate you are not a disinfo agent.

ATS members need to understand that not every member believes everything is a conspiracy and does take a sketpical approach to their work. That's not a bad thing, it's good thinking and helps in constructing a solid theory.

ATS benefits from this.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 06:18 AM
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[removed quote of entire previous post]

In my so far brief time as a poster here (as opposed to my long pre-posting lurking phase) I see the critique process as essential. It is the peer review needed to hone an idea into a theory or consign it to the trash heap of history or hysteria as the case may be.

Mod Edit: Quoting – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 20-1-2008 by sanctum]



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 06:42 AM
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Having critics is something you need because you then have to find more proof. But what I believe is the problem is when the same few people see the proof you originally had, and then still ask for more so you take your time get more and they still say give me more, and so on. That is why people give up.

Some folks just cant be moved even if you did have the worlds #1 proof in front of there eyes and I think that is what the OP is talking about. Not the people that come in and say ok, I want to see more proof and when you show more they say great job. See what I am saying there is a difference in the skeptic and the pseudoskeptic which means to me that somewheres in here we have a few that are that way. I dont know about them being paid for it. I just have a strange feeling they just enjoy bringing everyone else down.

Then we also have a few people who state anything that is shown off youtube is made up, and yet they continue to keep sitting there, saying over and over again prove it. Like the UFO will come back if you ask the sky to prove itself to be full of UFOs. So if my family saw a UFO this morning and we video taped it and put it on youtube. According to them it wouldnt be real. Yet we all saw it. So therefor yes we have the pseudoskeptic in that case. And I have to say that I have seen loads of stuff on youtube that I can believe are real.

Hilda



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 07:03 AM
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I don't think the OP was talking about GENUINE disagreement with, or critical analysis of another person's post. Hell, I more than welcome disagreement and/or critique that comes from a study, or knowledge of, the subject you're disagreeing with. AS mentioned by Doghead, this is essential to digging down to whatever truth might lie in any assertions made in a thread.

The problem of pseudoskepticism, debunking at any cost, and/or attempting to demolish a thread through sheer rudeness and hostility is another thing altogether.

There is already a perfect example of this in this very thread.


Originally posted by Roland Deschain
*Yaawn*

I can't believe there are still posts like this being made. Did you either bother searching for a related topic before posting this?



Personally I see participating in a forum like ATS as a combination of online English pub, a source of news, a school & a club... ie: a place where you can go and discuss subjects that interest you with like-minded people, share observations, find out what's new, and hopefully learn something in the process.

People go to pubs, schools, clubs, watch news, and the same subjects are discussed many times. The same appllies to pretty much every forum I'm a member of, including the private forum I run. Why does a subject have to have limits on the amount of times it can be discussed, particularly when you consider that a forum like ATS has plenty of new members joining every day?

If you think the subject of this thread has been discussed so much that it bores you, why not simply ignore the thread, and let those who are interested in participating in it, in a constructive manner, get on with it?

Unless, of course, it is important to the individual that this thread never catches the imagination of too many people, thereby creating a tendency amongst ATS members to either a/ more easily see future thread derailments for what they are... and/or b/ more easily ignore those individuals who attempt to derail threads with these type of tactics.

I'm not saying the above is the case. BUt it does make me wonder why people bother to behave like this in threads.

Anyway... enough wafflling from me


[edit on 20-1-2008 by Dagar]



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by interestedalways
Personally the people on the board that seem to post for the single purpose of derailing a thread through making fun of other posters, or starting petty arguments and baiting posters to make them mad is not the same as someone disagreeing with you.

Balanced opinions are healthy on a thread.

Making fun and ridiculing other posters is usually a way to take the focus off of the subject being presented and if the poster is relatively new it doesn't take to much to back them off of the subject if they *feel* it is cause for ridicule.

It isn't good to confuse these two issues.


thanks for reducing to words the simple truth of the matter. i, for one, want balanced opinions. the ats board has only made me more convinced in the thread www.abovetopsecret.com... is real and I am more determined.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by hildar
reply to post by DogHead
 


I actually was just talking to a friend about that at hub, she said she would like to join here and give out a few of her theories like mine, but as I told her if she did she would be in for one heck of a time. I believe they need to have certain areas for these things and keep the others where they want to be where the proof is.

Truthfully I am starting to get tired of it. And thats why I keep leaving. Sooner or later alot of us will leave from disgust. The mods need to do something. I feel if we have something on our minds we should be able to say it without being jumped on completely.

Hilda


Hilda,

They do have a place for speculative theories and those theories are supposed to be treated in a positive manner. The only negatives in that forum are to be "devil's advocate" type challenges that help the OP along, not intentionally destroy their theory. The forum is Skunk Works. And if you see some one acting in a negative manner to some one's theory, you should report it immediately.

If more people would use that forum for their speculative theories, less people would throw themselves into the lion's den.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 07:33 AM
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I might actually find it quite insulting to claim that I, for example, am an paid disinformatist spreading a bad word. Nevertheless, some skeptics here are indeed merely agnostics who want to know for certain that things that they behave as to know about are true.. Most of those will also admit that they do also have beliefs and disbeliefs, at least if they understand that they are humans.

Simplest example for men would be women, of course. In that context, belief matters quite a lot



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 09:01 AM
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ATS is a control/observation mechanism. It hasn't been infiltrated by disinformation agents, it was started by them. All their "specialized conspiracy experts" are trumpeting the secret society line. Trying to make us believe in aliens/reptiles. Setting us up for 2012 fake alien invasion with gov. "UFOs," project bluebeam, personal hologram technology to make elites appear like "shapeshifting reptilians." This is the elite fabrication. The serpent/reptile symbology goes back to Atlantis, the Bible, Caduseus, Masonry and into your DNA. Refers to states of consciousness and spirituality, NOT to beings from outer space.

ATS continues to delete my threads.

The "symbol" for Nirbiru, Planet X, is the symbol for crown chakra activation! It's serpent energy. The Kundalini Snake. Not reptilian aliens! UFOlogy is the new term for Demonology!

We're supposedly generation X, they're telling us planet X is coming in 2012, there's X-Files on Fox, there's a supposed UFO/Alien government insider always interviewed in the dark with voice modification calls himself "Proffesor X" just like the head of the the X-Men mutants, X marks the spot, but for what?

The Rockefellers supported Erick Von Daniken and many other early "UFOlogists" and "ancient astronaut theorists". All of these movies were made by high-ranking masons: Star Wars, Star Trek, ET, Alien 1-4, Independence Day, Apollo 13, From the Earth to the Moon, 2001 Space Odyssey... Apollo 13 took off at 13:13, the explosion was on the 13th, the supposed moon-walkers were 33rd degree masons and first took pics with the masonic flag 33 mins after "the eagle" landed. Crop Circles CC=33 numerologically. Then you've got Roswell/Area 51 crash happening exactly at the 33.33rd parallel and 104 (33x3.14PI) longitude in 1947.

They are entraining us all in a massive psy-op. Research this "possibility." (Sorry, I should start a thread about this but THEY KEEP GETTING DELETED!) ATS, I demand that you put back my Christmas thread about Santa Claus and the legal Amanita Muscaria mushroom! You want to deny ignorance... STOP CENSORING PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE TRUTH TO SHARE!!!



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by freight tomsen
 


It wasn't started by "them", I've been here longer than you and I can prove ATS is not COINTELRPO *yawns* George Galloway, David Icke, 9/11 and July 7th truth movement are a few names who have been guest on ATS.

And, with all due respect, you don't have the truth to share. You might believe what you are posting, but not everyone will. We don't need to "open our eyes" to understand, truth equals knowledge which isn't always the case in some posts on ATS that claim to be speaking the truth.

If ATS is deleting your posts, it's always a good reason. Against T&C, use of caps, repeating threads, copy and paste job. The list goes on.

As I say to many people on ATS, who think this is a government job, why continue posting?



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 09:47 AM
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Firstly...
Amanta Muscaria Mushroom? this aint no place for drup propaganda of any sort... so maybe that is why it was deleted?

Secondly... I wont mention the website, but more than a year ago ATS had a thread discussing a new company that specialized in "opinions for hire". It is already big business and even has middle men. So whether you have an opinion, and want to promote it for money, or if you are just an idealist "ho", available to the first dollar on the block, then money is there to be made...

the problem with this system is that greed is more rampant than profitable arguements, so sell outs are common.

So dont deliberate about whether it is happening, IT IS! But realizing that, you will become more savy to the signs of ideals being bought and sold, and be wary henceforth...

As the old saying goes "trust no one"
even me, since i am actually a tech 5000 argue bot, made to direct your thoughts and actions towards support of the reptilian uberguard of the universe.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 09:57 AM
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Good to be aware "they" exist, but they exist everywhere. Perhaps 90% of everything is bluff, lie, ignorance, misinformation. It has been said "The Mind is a terrible liar." and also "The Devil is not more powerful than even the individual, the Devil rules by convincing people to believe in lies." So lies and vehicles (people/media/education) for spreading lies are everywhere in this world. Most of world events for hundreds of years have been arranged by people planted or cultivated into situations. ATS is only one situation. Since the Illuminati trusted army is mostly their own children tortured and trained from childhood and cultivated for important positions in all major avenues of society (politicians, media, corporations, entertainment, military, science, education) it should not be a surprise that some individuals in the Illuminati have the job of disinformation, misdirection, etc..



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 10:00 AM
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Skyfloating,

I noticed it's either a wave (like someone opens the flood gates and closes them again), or a single hit man. But yeah, I've noticed it.

Zorgon and I have theorized on it. We narrowed it down to three types:

1. just a person who disagrees and can't be bothered to explain his/her position
2. deliberately placed devil's advocates, created for the purpose of injecting life into the debate -- not to destroy it but to give it energy
3. deliberately placed disinfo because internet conspiracy can grow political legs.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I have to admit that the longer you stay at "conspiracy sites" the more evident the truth becomes. Normally, skeptics remain skeptics for a short period of time and become believers to *some* degree. If someone has 5000 pts and continues to routinely believe the official story then alarm bells should be ringing.



Yep. We know how any normal person behaves when he is skeptical because we ourselves are skeptical sometimes. Being skeptical of something I either dont post at all or I post a few counter remarks and leave it at that. Or I let my opponent sway me to his side ocassionally.

That is a totally different brand of skepticism than some very special posters who have been operating here since years and do nothing else than immediatly pounce on every thread that advertises a certain view of things. That single-minded, unchanging behaviour can only be explained in two ways:

The person is mentally ill or gets some benefit (money) for spending a large amount of his life debunking a single topic everywhere it pops up.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by hildar

I invited a friend here awhile ago and he joined saw how people were and left he said he would never come back. I have seen 4 others do the same.




I opened this thread after having spent a rainy night browsing through the archives of ATS...and seeing how many talented souls with engaging and revealing research topics...never returned again.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by malganis
 


A disinformation warplan would not only deploy debunkers but also people who put out exaggerated and fake information to make topics look silly. "Elvis was a reptilian" comes to mind.

We can learn to have a keen mind and intuition that can discern between honest information and agenda-driven information.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by DogHead
1. if the claim relates to the physical world of the senses, then it needs to have some form of evidence to be credible.


Not possible in the conspiracy-theory-field as the very nature of a cover-up implies that evidence is covered-up, hidden, destroyed.

I agree with the rest of your post which suggests to label theory as theory, inductive reasoning as inductive reasoning and so on. Good point!





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