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Originally posted by neformore
More intriguingly, you said this;
Originally posted by benign.psychosis
I think we can attribute that to a faulty perception of the reader.
"We"?
You do like referring to yourself in multiple terms.
Are you schizophrenic by any chance?
What's this "we" stuff, white man? Groupthink again, huh. Your every expression betrays both your cryptofascist collectivism and your innate fear.
Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Of course we shouldn't forget that the US has recently passed a resolution making it illegal to deny the Armenian Genocide - I don't agree with these laws,
Originally posted by Johnmike
Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Of course we shouldn't forget that the US has recently passed a resolution making it illegal to deny the Armenian Genocide - I don't agree with these laws,
I really don't want to derail the thread, but can you tell me which resolution this is? It worries me, and is probably unconstitutional if it's a law.
Originally posted by benign.psychosis
I was not aware that the majority did not understand grammitical inclusiveness.
[edit on 21-1-2008 by benign.psychosis]
Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
reply to post by IAmTetsuo
Of course we shouldn't forget that the US has recently passed a resolution making it illegal to deny the Armenian Genocide - I don't agree with these laws, I think they miss the point.
The last thing that we want is this rolled through history - how about we just prosecute people for commiting these atrocities in the first place?
It is my opinion that all the European Genocides of the 20th century, from Armenia onwards, should be taught as one unit of history, not excluding the genocide of the Jews by the Nazis.
The Armenian Genocide set a precendent for the twentieth century, nationalism became entwined with ethnicity and it was believed that the only way to achieve national identity and unity was to create a completely homogenized people. Same race, same religion, same cultural identity. All the genocides of the first half of the twentieth century were framed by these beliefs.
People who had lived side by side for decades cast as enemies by the state. It never ceases to amaze me how little encouragement man needs to kill his fellow human beings. The consequences of the genocides in the Balkans are still being played out.
Race is an ideology invented in the mid 19th century that bears no relation to scientific fact or theory. Those familiar with the work of Count Gobineau will be all too glaringly aware of how the genocides of Europe corresponded almost identically with his division of the races and particularly of those areas that he earmarked as being mainly made up of the degenerative races.
It is often ignored that the real reason that the Jewish holocaust receives more study time than any other is because a significant proportion of the victims were white northern Europeans.
They were also Jews, but even to the Nazis this was secondary to their ‘racial characteristics’. Goering famously said, when told by another Party member that someone in his employ was a Jew “I decide who is Jewish here.” One of Hitler’s mentors was in fact married to a Jewess, he dined with her, enjoyed her company. She was a white northern European Jew. The sad fact cannot be ignored that history remembers most keenly the white victims.
The Jews and Slavs of Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine, Serbia etc etc are secondary because they are not deemed to be white – not by the Nazis and not by the western world.
Originally posted by benign.psychosis
So you are assuming that all of those people never heared of the Holocaust, or of any other Genocide? If so it appears that they all were performing the first Genocide in history, as far as they knew?
Now if you say they should all be taught in detail then that would require the Holocaust detail to be pushed back significantly. Do you consider that fair, or somehow trying to trivialize the Holocaust as well as anti-semitic?
So why attempt to trivialize it? It looks like you are even attempting to defend it by saying that Sweden did it too. What gives?
I'm not suggesting it. You may want to read a little more about the man, and about America's dark past of Eugenics. Hitler studied American Eugenics laws, he has said, "I have studied with great interest the laws of several
It doesn't fit in at all with Hitler. Those other countries were not purposely created in the religious holy land of another nation for the purpose of perpetual upheavel.
How about somewhere where they are not unwanted? Israel is like an injured insect in the middle of an ant colony, only that it is holding bug spray (nukes)... and maybe some claws to kill ants with.
That is nothing but a large generalization and it has nothing to do with what I think.
He merely instigated the latent anti-semitic attitude that had already overcome Europe. He didn't implant software into robots or hypnotize anyone to hate Jews. He came to power, he was a natural orator and he captured the hearts of the people. It can be argued that he had some bad ideas, as well as good ones.
Blaming Hitler for the actions of the Germans and the Nazi's amounts as much to blaming violent behavior on video games or movies.
There is no evidence to show that the Holocaust was all part of a big initial plan. There is more evidence that points towards wanted to exile the Jews, to move them to the east - perhaps Asia... Perhaps a future Zionist state (a concept that he was familar with)
But again, what we are really discussing here is why it's illegal to question the Holocaust, or more generally restriction of freedom, like why Germany is proposing the banning of a religion, namely scientology. Would the rest of the world follow their example?
Originally posted by Fuggle
Good! She got what she deserved.
People should not be allowed to question "__________".
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Harder than it looks. The only reason why it was easy to prosecute Nazi war criminals (and their Japanese and Italian equivalents) was the total defeat, occupation, and rebuilding of Germany.
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Conquest by expanding foreign power - aboriginal peoples
Traditional ethno-tribal hatreds - Hutu/Tutsi, Armenian/Turk. Serb/Croat
Ideological and religious - all communist genocides/democides
The Nazi Holocaust can arguably fit in all three categories. Most of the victims lived in Poland, Russia, Ukraine rather than Germany. There was a certain amount of traditional anti-semitism in Germany, particularly the south where most of the Nazi leaders originated.
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Blood-and-soil nationalism is far older than that, and is still pervasive. The newer, more civilized "citizenship nationalism" started out in western Europe and spread to North America. Citizens of a nation were simply citizens regardless of ancestry, race, or religion.
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Peoples who live side-by-side are as often ancient enemies as friends. The anti-Israel hysteria pumped out by governments and pressure groups in the Middle East is intended to give an artificial scapegoat to tribes to keep them from hating each other.
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
BTW, the northwestern Europeans were not the only ones obsessed with race/colour. The caste system of India was originally based on colour as well; the light-skinned Persian conquerers of India were on the top, and the dark-skinned natives on the bottom.
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
It is often ignored that the real reason that the Jewish holocaust receives more study time than any other is because a significant proportion of the victims were white northern Europeans.
That is one reason. There are others, which I'll elaborate elsewhere.
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Many of these white northern european Jews were fully-assimilated middle-class Germans who did not "look Jewish" at all, spoke fluent German. They thought of themselves as Germans first. Many of their family members fought and died for the Fatherland in the last war. So obviously these Jews would have a strong sense of personal betrayal - Kaiser Bill honoured them, but Hitler wanted to gas them.
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
The Nazis considered Croats to be white (and non-Slavic). After Pearl Harbour, the Nazis classed Japanese as Aryans,
Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
Many Americans in the 1840s didn't consider the Irish to be white, either, even if factually they were at least as white as the English. "No dogs or Irish" signs adorned bars in New York and Boston.
Link
Abdullah Gul needed a favor. It was February 5 of this year, and the Turkish foreign minister was fighting a push in the U.S. House of Representatives to recognize the Turkish murder of over one million Armenians during World War I. In past years the House had placated Turkey by dropping similar resolutions. But now, with the American-Turkish alliance weakened by the Iraq war, the resolution had found renewed support. Gul summoned representatives from the Anti-Defamation League and several other Jewish-American organizations to his room at the Willard Hotel in Washington. There he asked them, in essence, to perpetuate Turkey’s denial of genocide.
Abraham Foxman’s ADL acquiesced, and in so doing, performed the pièce de résistance of Foxman’s highly effective, if unintentional, decades-long campaign to demoralize Jewish America and send young Jews scurrying for the communal exit doors. The ADL chief is a danger to the future of the community, and it is a scandal that he remains at the head of a major Jewish organization. Foxman must go. And the organization he has done so much to shape must either change or go with him.
Soon after the meeting with Gul, the ADL joined three other American Jewish organizations—the American Jewish Committee, B'nai Brith International, and the Jewish Institute of National Security Affairs—to deliver to Congress a written plea from the Jews of Turkey that the U.S. not recognize the Armenian Genocide. Turkish Jews are more vulnerable now than at any time in recent history as they struggle to reassert their place in a society polarized by the competing visions of Turkey’s Islamists and secular nationalists, so it is hardly surprising that they would parrot their government’s denialist claims. By dutifully passing their letter to Congress, the Jewish American groups cynically exploited a small, frightened Jewish minority.
Originally posted by Xtrozero
As far as I know the Holocaust teaches and shows that it is an incredibility evil act, and I do not find this a bad thing to do. Your list shows it was just an efficient tool for them to use, and so I would say they didn’t get the holocaust memo that it is evil.
I would say they didn’t get the holocaust memo that it is evil.
Now if you say they should all be taught in detail then that would require the Holocaust detail to be pushed back significantly. Do you consider that fair, or somehow trying to trivialize the Holocaust as well as anti-semitic?
I do believe other holocaust should be right next or even above the holocaust, but most others are buried with only generic facts known about them. I don’t blame this on the Jews, and I don’t blame the Jews for wanting the holocaust to not go the same direction as so many other atrocities have gone.
This is so damn simple to understand it is ridiculous…
I'm not; you wrongly used it as to an influence in Hitler’s decision making process and I was showing it had nothing to do with Hitler. It also seems you continually use the US as your platform for the underlining cause of the holocaust and Sweden was just another example to show that you like to pick and choose your data based on that.
Once again America's dark history didn't round up most of the Jews in Europe and 3 million others and then after taking everything they had started to systemically kill them all.
we have rather firm lines separating every country in the world and to jump on the podium about Israel being squatters is ridicules unless you want to include the majority of the world too.
How long have Jews lived in that part of the world...I rest my case
So, you have not answered me yet...Do you believe there was some form of Jewish genocide? You hint that you do with the excuses for Hitler and to his reasons you keep putting out. First he was influenced by America ideals to do it and now it was out of his control …which one was it?