Jehovah is an Evil God!!!

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by MatrixProphet

 

No, God doesn't have to change because he is nothing like so many think he iis... God is love, that's all. Anything, including the OT, that is contrary to that is false...

I don't think the OT or the NT is false, I just don't think people understand whats being described in these books. Also you have to keep in mind that alot of the things writen in the scriptures are metaphors not ment to be taken literally. People think that in the 20 & 21 century that one can pick up these books read them and TADA they have it all figured out. That is not the case, and in order to understand any of this stuff you have to go back to where it came from, what was going on before this stuff came on the scene. If your picking up one book in one particular religion, reading it and thinking thats the end of the story, then you are no better then the men that claimed the world to be flat, or the men that said the Earth was the center of the Universe!!

[edit on 2/22/2008 by XcLuciFer]

reply to post by XcLuciFer


I pretty much agree. That's like when modern men start discussing the "apocalypse." It's hilarious to listen to what they think is going to happen. Boy, they are going to be surprised when everything that the bible states happens, just not the way they think it's going to happen. It's going to be fun to watch, it really is.

xlucifer, you remind me a lot of myself; true story...haha...damnit. I've been deliberating internally for a few years now concerning the validity of the portrayol of God that the bible purports, and I simply cannot reconcile what has been claimed in the bible as God with atributes that I'm sure the lovingness of the TRUE creator would have. I don't see a need to impune the children of God (all humans) with guilt, shame, and DEFINITELY not death or the torture of the aging process that preceeds it, lol. Whatever is the intention of the allowance of our current state of being I am sure is as loving as can be in consideration of free will being a part of us. Maybe the account of the claim that adam and eve would have lived forever is false? I have no proof, of course, lol, but it sounds more loving that we are intended to be in existence and our first goal would be to learn how to live forever; I'm pretty sure that's what geneticists studying the aging process are currently in search of. I can only conceive that THAT particular model of existence being such that we were never impuned but rather SET forward by the creator WITH the mental faculties necessary to gain the scientific understanding (knowledge of creation) necessary to actualize our already created genetic potential to live forever without growing old and even returning to youth.

I'm currently a student at a college who is majoring in immunology for the purpose of contributing to science what I would have to offer in the way of genetic engineering from the perspective of BELIEF that this is our primary goal as children of God. There is a way to look at science (the study of creation) from the standpoint of trial and error coupled with how something is even possible and then there is a way to look at science (the study of creation) from the standpoint of seeking to understand how any part of creation was established in consideration of what would have been MOST loving in reconciliation with the probable design that was used by the creator and so then to bypass what would otherwise be a long path of trial and error and supercede it by first considering what is most probable according to what the creator would have done in allowance of what is most loving when designing.

LOL! xlucifer! YOU I have seen as being most open to freedom of thought concerning subject matter that MUST have instilled a sense of fear of retribution from who has been established as God thus far. I, personally, come from background of having established faith from my birth until a few years ago, but have always had this same internal conflict regarding this seed of doubt of whether the established God is good or not. I've come up with I think 4 possibilities of what is most probable to have occurred as the 'model of existence' relative to the creator, but only one is MOST loving above the others.

xlucifer, you're very very very very very smart, lol; true story, and VERY courageous! I like you, bro. I didn't think anyone else thought to challenge what they are exposed to from childhood onward as belief; most people won't until they're given forever to think about it, lol...just think, bro...forever...until the ability to live forever comes, bro...NOBODY is going to take chances with the VERY few years that they have in life, bro, NOBODY...well, except for the few who feel in their heart that 80 years simply isn't worth spit.

Originally posted by Shawn B.

Originally posted by XcLuciFer

How do you know that Jesus died on a cross and resurrected? You weren't there I assume so how can you make such a grand statment and claim it to be true?

[edit on 1/25/2008 by XcLuciFer]

Everyone gets resurrected after they die.

You'll be resurrected after you die too.

There's another type of resurrection that happens well you're still alive just like there's two diffrent meanings to dead in the bible.

Makes me think of this verse:

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to SHAME and EVERLASTING contempt

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and NONE of the WICKED SHALL UNDERSTAND; but the WISE SHALL understand.

I respect the bottom line question that the op is asking which is really the following:

How can the God of the Bible be Holy as the Bible states when He has done many things as some -perceive- as evil? Believe it or not, I have a great understanding of this but it would take MUCH space to do so and I'm not up to a sermon at the moment. I will say this however, evil is 'used' by God and is merely a pawn for God's purposes. Evil is like the bad bacteria in your intestine.. It's necessary but when your done with it, it gets flushed down the toilet. If I were you, I would just stand on the word and take the Bible's word for it.. The God of the Bible IS Holy, Just and Righteous. How God manipulates evil to his 'purposes' without being accomplice is not entirely understood by me but He is God, isn't He?

If you chose evil you're going to be like the aformentioned bad bacteria. God is still going to use you but when He is done you will quickly have a very nasty realization.

Also, I would be careful with the all too common errant assertion that somehow there is no proof that Jesus ever existed.. and if He did He did not die, arise from the grave and ascend as it was written before and after. I'm sure you will find this debated in another thread and I'm not going to hold anyone's hand here.

Believe the Bible if you want, and at your own peril.


Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

It's your choice. If you die in your sins? The horror that you will face will be a machination of your OWN device.


Add:

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, EVERY knee shall bow to me, and EVERY tongue shall confess to God. For it is said in the holy Writings, By my life, says the Lord, to me every knee will be bent, and every tongue will give worship to God.

(This is also ironic in a way because by this time it will still be too late for many)

Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.


Every thought and every deed.




The God of the Bible FLYS in the face of foolish pride, just one of the many reasons of why I love Him.

Oh, and by the way.. what makes ANYONE here think that when Jesus returns he's going to somehow wind up in a padded cell, shot, etc.. etc....

The only reason he was crucified is because He -allowed- it. You think He's going to lay down again when He shows up? I don't think so.

[edit on 15-3-2008 by ViewFromTheStars]

"For God so Loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life"

does this sound like a God who loves you? all you have to do is accept him and you get to live forever. if you don't then you will join satans punishment. You have to choose 1 side you can't be neutral, you're either for him or against him. call it evil if you want but those are the facts, no amount of whining is going to change them.

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
reply to post by MurderCityDevil

 

Ok so you are advocating that mass murderer isn't that bad. I don't no how to respond to that. We are talking about the creator of the Universe!!!

I think you need to read that in context, here you give a the conclusion, a result of previous action or inaction. just stating the ending is a little misleading.

If you want an actual God of your own image, then do you not want to be god yourself? Do you not want things your way?


Mass murder good? depends on the context. many war criminals were executed, mass murder in other terms. Is this acceptable?

How many children are aborted, mass murder by individual hospitals an clinics, are they brought to trial? NO!

paradox? I think so

your question needs honing somewhat.

all the best

David

reply to post by XcLuciFer


There was another one i dont know the numbers, but its there,
"When is there evil in the city and the lord hath not created it?"

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
"For God so Loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life"

does this sound like a God who loves you? all you have to do is accept him and you get to live forever. if you don't then you will join satans punishment. You have to choose 1 side you can't be neutral, you're either for him or against him. call it evil if you want but those are the facts, no amount of whining is going to change them.

I won't quote any scriptures, because those with their own reasons will pick me apart, laugh, rationalize, give themselves stars, and make the whole idea of faith into a big circus.

Everything happens for a reason. If you turn away from believing in Jehovah through Jesus, then you can write an essay full of hate and disparaging remarks. Questionning whether God loves you, is like questionning why we weren't all born with telepathic abilities to communicate as one whole union of spirituality, rather than dealing with the division and intolerance that we see everyday.

It's just a thought, my own reasoning. Everyone has that right.

I think a question is if god created us in his image then why is there so much evil in the world, And why would god test beings like adam and eve if they were already innocent? Why would god allow a creature like the serpent to be in the garden next to his new beings? if it was so important

reply to post by 23Eulogy23


Sorry, I can't quote scripture, it's been decades but I believe that there is a verse that explains that the "world is in the control of the wicked one", basically Satan. See Job as to why the world is the way that it is. Satan says that man only follows God because of blessings. It's a challenge that God has to answer and a test that man has to pass.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by 23Eulogy23

 

Sorry, I can't quote scripture, it's been decades but I believe that there is a verse that explains that the "world is in the control of the wicked one", basically Satan. See Job as to why the world is the way that it is. Satan says that man only follows God because of blessings. It's a challenge that God has to answer and a test that man has to pass.

The book of Job, and Psalms in the Bible are an excellant place to get answers from. The only part that I'll add is, God isn't going to answer anything. It's the Holy 144,000 as described in the book of Revelations who will carry out the work of God. It is this "flock of doves", whom carry the burden of providing help to the good.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by Kinesis]

Hi OP,

A good starting point for your question would be Ms. Karen Armstrong's book: "A History Of God".

Terms like Jehovah, evil and God are so loaded that we would need to spend considerable time untangling the mess. A man-made-mess that is!

But why is the subject of any importance to you? Do you expect us to give you an answer, or are you just interested in entertainment :-) Any belief system is personal and also defies logic. It ultimately comes down to faith ... It's a personal choice.

If the supposed God of the old testament was omnipotent and omnipresent dont you think he would have known that humanity would sin before it happened, that people would fail and err in their new beliefs and commandments given to them by him and the flood....god would have known all along that he would have to punish them for their sins.

The old testament god isnt a god at all, a supreme being who has the divine ability of an all knowing conciousness, that can be everywhere and all knowing all at once doesnt make mistakes.

Why would a spiritual, omnipotent super being turn up in flashes of cloud and noise and demand from his followers raw materials like wood, gold and bronze.

reply to post by XcLuciFer


ALL are man-made? probably,

I can remember someone telling me that Babylon was the birth of most or even all of the religions we find today.

reply to post by XcLuciFer


I have very definite thoughts that you might find interesting;

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

It would explain so much, if what I think is true!

reply to post by intrepid

Satan says that man only follows God because of blessings. It's a challenge that God has to answer and a test that man has to pass.

Or perhaps it is an agreed upon Game? Your post in which I also believed in for many years - fulfilled my quest for answers, for a while, but then it failed. I could not help wondering why?

What is Satan holding over Jah for so long? It became too simple of a answer to think that it was all regarding a test over blessings, and who would worship God for them or not. It is far easier for me to believe the non-religious view of a Game, and we are the game pieces.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

reply to post by Keeper of the Garden

The old testament god isnt a god at all, a supreme being who has the divine ability of an all knowing conciousness, that can be everywhere and all knowing all at once doesnt make mistakes.

This is a presumption. How would you know this? Perhaps he was a new parent when we were created. We assume that God was old and has a white beard, that is what Hollywood claims. Supposing that isn't true?

If we continue to base our knowledge or perceptions on what we assume to be truth, we may actually miss it, because we are looking for a different persona.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we were wrong?

Originally posted by 23Eulogy23
I think a question is if god created us in his image then why is there so much evil in the world, And why would god test beings like adam and eve if they were already innocent? Why would god allow a creature like the serpent to be in the garden next to his new beings? if it was so important

free will.

evil isnt the opposite of good, its a lack of. god created us good, perfect.

the test in the garden was a simple test. don't eat the fruit. god provided them with a symbol to act on their free will. eating the fruit was tantamount to rejecting god.

free will is why we have so much evil in the world. its easy to blame god and say well why did he allow this but no one ever takes responsibility for their own contribution.

remember the illustration of the prodigal son?

guy has 2 sons, one of them demands his inheritance now and runs off. lives a decedent life and spends all his money. finds himself poor and hungry.

my question to you is, can the prodigal son blame his father for his suffering?

everyone saying god is evil in this thread is saying yes. they are effectively saying that god is to blame for the things WE decide to do in our life.

grow up. the arguement has no substance to it.

reply to post by miriam0566


The one thing I don't get is that every human being on the planet is supposed to have faith in themselves right.

So how do we have faith in ourselves when we are constantly told God is superior to us in every way?

Do you really blame people for thinking God is responsible for everything when they have been told how inferior they are to him for centuries. Its natural to say the least because people go to church than they are read the bible and in it is every depiction of a superior being.

Jesus washed the feet of his disciples as we should wash theirs Jesus had the best idea but the church doesn't take the same view. Statements like 'God works in mysterious ways", God is Almighty, God is perfect and we don't compare, we will never match his divinity.

And you wonder why people blame him for everything because as far as they are concerned they don't compare, and the 'lets blame the superior one' is the first thing that happens. Thats the perception that is exclusively church endorsed and one in which I dont support.

hence why home is the safest place to avoid down talking and focus on the real message of the Bible, not how inferior I am to him.

reply to post by Drakiir


whether god is superior to us has little to do with whether we should blame god.

so many us use the equation that if god is all powerful, he should stop all suffering. but we forget, we are the ones causing the suffering!

we should be blaming ourselfs!

there are a ton of people on this forum who will swear up and down how they dont need god, they dont need the bible. then prove it! make this world a utopia.

god is giving you exactly what you want! he´s leaving you alone to decide your own fate.

the bible was provided for those that see that independence from god is futile. i mean does it occur to anyone that the world can destroy itself at any second? it doesnt strike anyone as ironic that with all this ¨enlightment¨ and technological achievement we actually have a doomsday clock?

(im not directing these comments at you Drakiir, just the forum in general)