Jehovah is an Evil God!!!

Is it not interesting that Gods' first commandment refers to him being the only God to be worshiped, that he is a jealous God at that. Does that not bring up any idea that God is insecure and was even pointing to the idea that other Gods did exist, for if God were refering to make believe Gods then would that also be proof that God of the old testament had a major inferiority complex?

Another point to be made is that God of the old testament was at one point Johovah and then Yaweh. Has anyone noticed that the two have completely different personnalities in their actions and such? Maybe, just maybe it is because they are two different entities at play at two different times.

I guess the point is, in my opinion the God of the bible is not the GOD or source of all that is in our universe, for if it was why would it carry on like the rest of us, where we war at times and then love at other times. It just goes to say, "As Above, So Below".

reply to post by skyshow

the problem can't neccesarily be attributed to the structure of the educational system, a necessary change in priority of may be in order. Continued education is a neccesary requirement of the advancement of mankind, however the motives behind it poison it's existence. I mean to say that contiued education for the monetary benifits of its students, administrators, and corporate sponsors undermines the idea that knowledge by itself is key to the advancement of society. Philosophy for example is a study in which individual thought is encouraged but whats the point of paying money to major in it if there are no monetary rewards. The corporations of our country once again proved their power by getting universities to charge for the training of their prospective employees and this is what drives our adavanced education system. Corporate greed and nonaccountability is what most influences todays societies not knowledge or understanding. We pay for their employee training systems without any guarantee of employment it's a joke. This is one of the reason technical schools are more and more popular as it is a strippefd down version of college which concentrates solely on jobsite orientaion and a syllabus sometimes set up through corporate sponsorship and is rewarded with easier job placement and an and an easier ride to the mindless slavery that is our corporate world. This is a stemmation from our privately owned national federal reserve which deserves an increased awareness and recognition for the constitutional attrocities it supports in America which now includes Mexico and Canada, per George Bush.

reply to post by Jonar

The overall lessons in the bible are by no means the most important part in my opinion, The most important part is how he is somehow connected to us and we are created in his image. Evil resides in mankind not in the lord. In effect the more evil we get the the more vengeful he gets in the name of goodwill to balance or offset the horrific attrocities exhibited by us in the name of mankinds ultimate distraction and evil MONEY. He is the balancing act of the universe, go do something horrible and watch it come back to you tenfold, the same goes for groups of people or socities exhibited in the bible, This is his testament to this modern scientificly exerted theory proved by einstein that every action has an opposite but equal reaction. The bible testified this before these theories exixsted or even had the intelllectual capibility to exist

I find it interesting that many of you pop-culture luciferians get such a jolly from denying a graceful God by way of Sitchinesque aliens. The point was brought up, thankfully, that substituting divine creation/intervention with alien second hand knowledge is just creating another sphere within a sphere. God still needs to be the original spark. And therefore god, as prime architect, is the righteous judge of physical/material beeings as yourself.

Now if you are an alienite materialist, you might consider physical "death" very scary and ominous as this with your reasoning could well be the termination of your counsciousness.

In that case, the "mass-murder" you ascribe to God will surely seem unfair to say the least. But if you are not an existentialist (believing that all that is to be experienced is to be gathered via the senses during your physical lifespan) you would not - post mortem - consider yourself to have been murdered by God, tht would be a ludicrous idea.

Perhaps you could explain what you believe? You call yourself Lucifer, for a start. Lucifer is a counter-part to the loving God as darkness is a counter-part to the light. If you believe the one, then surely the other must exist, yes? If you believe in the "anti-Christ" then one must accept also the Christ, right? This is somewhat of a side note, but what I'm getting at is this implies that you acknowledge good and evil, but rather devout yourself to the latter.

So, what of your quotes in your OP? Do you mean that they are lies, concoctions, or that they prove that god is as evil as you would think Man to be?

"The Talmud relates (Shabbos 31):

“A gentile once came to convert to Judaism, on the condition that he could learn the whole Torah while standing on one foot. He approached Shammai, who rejected him, so he went to Hillel, who taught him: "’That which you dislike don't do to your fellow: That’s the basis of Torah. The rest is commentary; go learn!"



Don't worry, G-d won't hurt you!

[edit on 21-1-2008 by Albin]

Worship is for slaves and you are a slave to that which you worship. I worship no one.

I started a thread on a call for regulation on churches and religious activity. I was looking for a fruitful and healthy discussion but it seems people can't handle that concept and ultimately had to post this because of the ridiculous remarks that people will post, and they do in here to on this thread as well. It's very disappointing because the one who started this thread I'm thinking probably had the same intentions in mind. I thought it was very interesting and I wanted to learn more about it, but now with 17 something odd pages, I see a few diamonds here and there, but mostly just a lot of gravel. It's childishness that has nothing to do with the topic area. The following may not be about this thread specifically, but the idea applies in this thread too. Read if you want to...

Come on folks, I expected some serious and intelligent based comments on ideas regarding how the wrongs of religion can be righted. This is not anti Christian, it is not Atheist, it is about what it is about, go back and read it again if you've spent this much time getting to here, you must be interested in the subject. Get past the reactionary thinking, and approach the topic, not as a religious hot head, but as a rational, and ethics minded adult. Attacking me, or trying to make me out to be this our that, isn't adding to the subject matter at all. To me it looks like a lot of overly defensive religious conservatives feel threatened and so feel compelled to attack and smear me in some way...this isn't about me, this is about the issue of religion and society. I think it needs to be regulated and I've stated both why and how. I would prefer rather than attacking me and calling me names, or saying I"m going to hell, or am a bigot or this and that, that instead you describe why with logic and reason why you disagree with me, and why you feel big religion should continue to go unregulated and do whatever it pleases...with all the abuse of their power and all. If you agree and have a better idea, then talk about that. Talk about why you see why some might think it is needed, but why you feel it should or shouldn't happen here....anything but act like your in Jr. High with the childish remarks and postings.

Thank you in advance because a lot of us want to learn and exchange good quality information and we don't want to waste one another's time...some of you others on the other hand...? And thank you to those of you who care about these things and the betterment of humanity, and in peaceful ways to make our world a better place for all...thank you for those of you who posted something intelligent and tried to add to the debate in an adult manner. I know relgion, philosophy and societal issues are difficult for some of you, so if you feel you can't contribute at an informed, educated adult level (say something above the 11th grade, than for god's sake post in another religious forum, I"m tired of reading childish and stereotypical rants. You know who you are, so get up and go stand in the corner till I say you can come back out. My Gey-yaud!!!! Grow up people.

It's really beginning to get out of control. Some of us really want to have a discussion on the thread topic, not have it dissolve away into uninformed pa rotted religious drivel or baseless ideology. Most of us are already familiar with that anyway, so throwing up a scripture quote isn't changing anyone's mind nor contributing one iota to the thread topic, or helping to save any sinners...please post about the topic in a logical well thought out manner, or don't do it at all...

I'm sorry I had to post this, but someone has to say it!

[edit on 22-1-2008 by skyshow]

[edit on 22-1-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by Jonar


Interesting. Yeah, and it does say in Gen. we were made in their image. As above, so below....is this sort of what you meant? And I am growing to think as you suggest, that this is not the same as the all-being more universal god. It's only been recently that I have come across these ideas. One was a comment a friend made one day a while back, and then a few days ago I see this on ATS and am very fascinated with the topic. It makes more sense to me now that's for sure. I hope that XcLucifer guy posts some more, and there's a few others...One thing's for sure, there is a lot more to our history and this story than first meats the eye (ie: what many of us have been taught).

Oh and it really ticks me off that in my upbringing lies have been told and spread far and wide. I knew clear back when I was around 11 years old or so I smelled a rat. Why can't religion and Christian schools (and many churches for that matter) just tell the children the truth, that they are not sure on this or that thing, and that there are multiple beliefs on this particular topic, and some feel due to alleged mis-translations that this actually means that....but no, they don't do this? They tell you their one and only narrow interpretation as though it's a scientific fact; they don't answer any questions, in fact if you ask to many, you are punished, and if you don't tow the line your ostracized and turned into an outcast...they push a political agenda at every possible chance, and don't present these old old writings in terms of context. They don't talk about the agnostics view points, or the Catharts. You barely even think anything other than Christianity even exists, and
Universalists...forget it, there is no such thing as a liberal Christian...hypocrisies and judgmental behavior is rampant among the followers, and in most congregations there is very little cultural, lifestyle or racial diversity.

Anyway, I'm really glad we have a forum to explore alternative explanations, and look at possibilities like the one in this thread. Very cool indeed.

[edit on 22-1-2008 by skyshow]

[edit on 22-1-2008 by skyshow]

[edit on 22-1-2008 by skyshow]

there is no such thing as a liberal Christian.

Define liberal please?
The reason I ask is I need to know how it differs in your mind from what I've been told it means in the past.

reply to post by undo


yes I suppose it's a loaded term...we can thank Ronnie for that...just after he defeated Carter in the elections, he whent on record as saying he was going to make "liberal" a dirty word....that's an understatement in some segments of the population! lol.

Um, I guess what I meant by the term was partly political. In my experience there was little room for anyone other than a conservative (this can be a loaded term as well) Republican and that viewpoint in general...you know, tagainst unions, socialised medicine, increases in welfare programs etc...and rather for the more republican lazes-fair business approaches, for prayer in schools (straw man issues, but nevertheless important to you if your a church, I guess) anti-choice / pro life ...the usual issues for each side, but almost perfectly the churches I was a part of (quite a few and later my studies seemed to confirm the existence of this said pattern, but that goes without needing to be said) followed the GOP platform strictly.

I also meant by the term, that women can be in leadership positions of the church. Gay and Lesbians are accepted as well (this is a whole other topic area, but liberal Christians can and have supported their positions on this issue with scripture even). Usually not fundamentalist. May debate the Trinity. Also accepts other religious systems as valid and doesn't believe these ones are going to hell, or in many cases even believe in a hell in the first place. I might also assume that a Christian who might entertain the idea of an evil Jehovah being different from the god of the NT and other ideas closer to the philosophy of free thinking would be or could be termed a "liberal" Christian. Liberal Christians also, well, (and I'm not kidding here) are quite similar in philosophy as many if not most of what Jesus is quoted as having said and talked about such as hanging out with a prostitute rather than a queen, healing and helping outcasts like lepers and homeless folks, not casting stones, challenging organized religion, and on and on...I saw a bumper sticker once and it said "Jesus was a liberal". Actually i've seen several cars with that one. Another of my favorites is "Jesus, protect me from your followers". That one I don't think is aimed at your "Liberal Christian", although I could be wrong?

I'm also assuming that you really did not not know what I meant when I used the term and weren't just jerking me along because I put in the time here and have made the genuine effort to try and explain a decent answer to your question. I don't know, there is probably a more academic definition for those in the study of religious history or theology, but this is basically the way I was using it.



[edit on 22-1-2008 by skyshow]

If Jehovah was/is an evil God, then Lucifer, his adversary, is by definition the good guy here, and may very well be the god of the NT. If this is true, then for those of you with your eyes pealed and heart pounding for the anti-christ, you know what? Read about the god of the OT, he'll probably be a lot like him.

Another thought I had was for the thread starter, could it be an elaborate joke starting this thread as Jehovah is quoted having said made us in his image...and here we see almost 20 pages of human behavior acted out with thought on these blogs...you'd have to understand "twisted" to get the joke. Then again it may just be irony. Either way it's quite entertaining, better than the TV, what with the writer's strike and NO NEWS!

reply to post by skyshow


Well i suppose that's ehere we differ, i do not consider these issues "entertainment". That type of remark allude to the fact that you consider God to be some abstract construct like santa claus.

Consider this: if Jehova is indeed a good God that grants you eternal life, then a leisurely stance toward this question would be kind of silly in the end, would it not? On the other hand - if scripture is all bollocks and "Lucifer is the good guy" then you would be well off having such a standpoint, that is for sure. So when you get on about liberalism, which is contrary to any monotheistic religion in principle, you have already revealed that you give religion no creedence! So when men and women of belief "get that", how are they to react to your questions and proposals?

There is NO neutral, objective standpoint in these issues. If one believes so, one will be disappointed

reply to post by skyshow


Well i was originally from a democratic state. most of the people in my family are democrats or were (some have since passed away) and were/are christians, as well, but wouldn't exactly agree with everything you mentioned as part of the democratic platform.

i don't agree with the dichotomy that's being set up for the two political parties. it's either all this way or all that way, which is total bunk. such as a democratic sticker with the jesus fish on it and the word hypocrite embedded in it. there's millions of democratic christians and they just insulted a large portion of them in the attempt to polarize the nation. they WANT christians to vote conservative.

i think it's just a big farce, personally.

reply to post by undo


Oh, there is polarisation going on allright!
But to kind of nudge the thread off from U.S.A politics i would say that this is a global phenomena. The liberal movement, which i define as a cultural principality, is not bound within some specific demographic "club", it is a universal tendency in men and women all over the world. And i feel that this "movement" is in the latter phase of a snow ball-effect.

The liberals/atheists want unrestricted justification - less rules more play. On the other hand there is another force that is rising in those that believe in God, right and wrong - and rules according with their belief.

This will be the clash of civilization. Not in a plural sense, mind you.
Only in the liberal mind can we "agree to disagree" over matters like these existential principles.

I call this function "Humans and Orcs". Mind you many of the "godly" people will turn out to be "Orcs" in this division. This scenario is, of course, only feasable if we are the latter phase of the end times...

[edit on 22-1-2008 by EarthDweller]

Originally posted by Yacov
ps .. if you cought a glimpse of Hell you would be paralyzed with fear

How on earth would you possibly know that?
Ever been there?

You guys have got it all twisted and you keep spouting the same rhetoric about the devil (he loves to torture you) and God who gives you to the devil when you don't do as he says or tortures you himself here on earth at a whim. Why would God who loves me send me to an eternal prison of immense torture?

God is attempting to extort worship through fear of punishment.

This is not only wrong it's just maddening.

- Lee

reply to post by lee anoma


I agree with you. This focus on hell and damnation seems like the heritage from the shame-mongering catholic church. Some things, when you here them, about the afterlife, simply does not make sense. Eternal damnation and torture does not seem like a "natural" function following earth life. I just can't see the justification for it. So all these people who doubt the scripture, but uses it to discredit God - please feel free to NOT believe in eternal fire! I sure as hell am sceptical!


[edit on 22-1-2008 by EarthDweller]

Originally posted by Sparky63
No, the Jewish captives would take comfort in knowing that their bonds of slavery would be broken.

I should point out the problem with that statement.

There is no actual proof that there were Jewish (I think you mean Hebrew) slaves in Egypt or that the "exodus" occurred at all other than it being written in the bible.

There is a Professor by the name of Zeev Herzog From the University of of Tel Aviv’s Institute of Archeology that wrote an article on this. It was in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz. He basically stated that there is no historical merit to back up the exodus claim, other than the Bible itself which is simply a religious text. He even claimed that this was common knowledge among Israeli academics. Most people simply ignore this.

The Egyptians were meticulous record keepers and there is no mention of this either. Now some (if not most) Christians will write this off as a prideful omission ("They wouldn't record a defeat") nevertheless there is no record at all. By that logic I could also make up a story that took place in Egypt where they were defeated by their Chinese slaves that were saved by a UFO but they failed to record the embarrassment.

This whole issue of the exodus is a matter of religious faith not fact.

Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary stories, we did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, we did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon. Those who take an interest have known these facts for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and doesn't want to hear about it
Biblical Archeology Society

- Lee

All I have to say is that anytime jehova wants a piece of me, he can come and get it. I regularly have to moon his disciples when they come to my door at 8 in the morning, so that should be his incentive.

Come on jehova, let's see what you got! You punk!

reply to post by Critical_Mass


I wouldn't come to your door at 8 in the morning and neither would most christians I know. Sounds like prejudice to me. Big brush you got there but mine is bigger.

[edit on 1/22/2008 by XcLuciFer]