“The tanks will return to Red Square on May 9th 2008”

reply to post by West Coast

I also recall hearing stories of how soviet soldiers raped and tortured german women,

You heard stories? Please, start a thread, all kidding aside, I found a great source of biographies of Red Army soldiers on their way to Berlin, and also diaries of Polish partisans.

Maybe then I can put some video clips of how SS were throwing live Ukrainian babies into the bonfires, or the documentary aftermath of “Babi Yar”.

as a "pay back" to what german soldiers did to russian women.

No, not just women, I recall a documented policy which dictated enslavement of all Slavic people, extermination of any resistance, the land cleared of “natives” and to be distributed among the high ranking members of the superior race.

And eye for an eye right?

From what I read, not even close. You’re alive, right?

I also remember soviet union dictating what germans could and couldnt do....The soviet union was far from being a "pussy cat".

I seem to remember MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people slaughtered by the proud, the pure, the righteous, so a little dictating is just a slap on the wrist for all the atrocities commited.

The soviet union was far from being a "pussy cat".

How many wars did the Soviet fight after WWII?

I seem to remember Angola, Afghanistan, help me out here, where else?

Originally posted by xmotex

Russia doesn't seem to have that problem, I guess because it's forces are generally concerned with actually defending their country, unlike our own.

[edit on 1/20/08 by xmotex]

Except, of course, for the russian er, soviet invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afganistan, and all those little countries in the Caucasus area ...

The only reason IMO that russian forces are not involved elsewhere is because they don't have the money to send them and supply them.

[edit on 1/22/2008 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by xmotex

Russia doesn't seem to have that problem, I guess because it's forces are generally concerned with actually defending their country, unlike our own.

[edit on 1/20/08 by xmotex]

Except, of course, for the russian er, soviet invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afganistan, and all those little countries in the Caucasus area ...

The only reason IMO that russian forces are not involved elsewhere is because they don't have the money to send them and supply them.

[edit on 1/22/2008 by centurion1211]

Send them I'm sure they can supply, last I checked there were at least 5 Million AK-74's let alone AK-47's, they have plenty of weapons ready for anything, please provide the real PROOF they don't, what happend to all those weapons after 91?

[edit on 22-1-2008 by Lambo Rider]

reply to post by centurion1211


I hate to break it to you, but the Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991.

As far as current Russian military activity, it's all been dealing with domestic insurgencies or with hostile countries on their borders: as I said, defending their country.

Not invading oil-rich countries halfway around the world and ascribing it at various times to mythical weapons programs, a half-baked desire to install democracy (where it's convenient, anyway), and a terrorist "threat" that was actually only extant after the invasion.

reply to post by centurion1211


centurion1211, why did the Soviet invade Afghanistan after pouring money into it for over 25 years and then spent 10 years tearing it down?

What is the ONLY “consumable” Afghanistan manufactures and exports?

Currently Afghanistan is the undisputed world leader in production of what and when did it all happen?

Maybe this is where Chinawhite can remind people how the British used to control people…

Being native Russian who lived through all the mess of late 80s - 90s, I can tell word or two about how we see it in Russia.
First, we don't give West any credit for destruction of Soviet Union. We don't see them as sole Cold War victors too.
Because it was both sides who won this war. You won because people here dreamt of life like in west, and we won because it was Russians who wanted Soviet Union to disintegrate, and it was Russians who gone to the streets in 1991. Not NATO soldiers.
We view some Soviet Union republics as ballast for Russia that had to be broken. Unfortunately, some of them kept sucking up our subsidies all through 90s.

About drinking.
Yes, Russians do, just like all other nations, drink. No, Russians drink much less than some other nations. You keep talking about vodka just because of propaganda that shows Russians as drunkards (in fur hats, playing balalaika, dancing with bears etc. etc.)
Partially this is true, because vodka is one of ways to keep one's body warm in our extremely cold climate.
Hard times of 90s brought those who were benefiting from Soviet welfare to position where they are not supported by the state, yet they are unable to learn capitalism and work hard to earn actual money. Those poor people started drinking, some of them lost their houses, and many died. Those of them who haven't died are either recovering or on their way to the cemetery.
Those who managed to survive hard times are very low on alcohol. They have seen trouble and don't want it be part of their lives.
I know lots of people who are not drinking at all. Including myself. Many those who are drinking are actually on wine or beer, while vodka is mostly popular between older generations or unfortunate children of those who hardly survived 90s.

Now about children and birthrates.
Actually, during 80s Russians had already lowering birthrate due to food shortages caused by convulsions of dying Soviet system. Relatively high birthrate "on paper" was mostly in Central Asian republics (a.k.a. ballast countries).
During 90s when government made amazing number of stupid decisions (not without help from western consultants), living standards dropped even lower so the birthrate lowered too. Nobody wanted to give birth to a child knowing that it going to be hard to feed it, to find a kindergarden.
Then came 2000s aka economic boom. With economy & industry coming out from the dark, people started earning money. Now they can afford big apartaments (which was rare even in Soviet Union), travel abroad, own car, two or even more. They have started making babies!
Women with babies are now everywhere, children are filling streets and I figurally collide with them when walking on the street.
And longer the economic boom, the more people will be convinced that it's just time to make a baby they couldn't afford ten years ago.

New generations of Russians are going to be much healthier not just than their parents, but even compared to their western and american counterparts.
They are mostly not drinking nor consuming drugs (which is a thing of 80s when Soviet government imposed restrictions on alcohol). They are healthy - they do sports!
We have fitness clubs popping everywhere like mushrooms, sport equipment shops are on every corner, and stadiums, ski bases and ice skate rinks are literally overcrowded! Just four years ago this was unthinkable.
Yet they have strong dislike to western fast food. My city, while inhabited by million citizens, has maybe handful of western-style fastfoods. And being fat is not welcomed here. We don't have a tradition of caring about those who fed themselves to obesity - so they have to 'enjoy' all the hardships without sympathy.

All we have to do is wait when those who were unable to sustain hardships finally die out, and then we are going have something that will be greater than U.S. baby boom in late 40s.

So don't write us off. Russians have capacity to overcome all hardships and become stronger than before

A little about emigration.
True, in 90s many emigrated to the west or Israel. We call it brain drain.
Now this trend, so the brain drain is reverse - not just people are NOT going to live abroad, but actually many of those who emigrated are coming back and opening business, so they basically bring back not just their "brain" but also working standards of the west, thus making our economy stronger.

p.s. my best wishes to iskander, your posts are best!

Ok Stop it right now...

This is a WEAPONS forum.

Lets discus off what weapons we will see in the victory parade.

I personaly think that they will show the T-95 in front off other tanks ranked in numberical order: T-95 T-90 T-80 etc.

A parade? Here's what you won't see:
Lead lined barrels of Polonium, followed by glass vials of biological agents, with colorful butterfly mines passing overhead. FSB agents following, goosestepping while holding up eavesdropping equipment in a salute to free speech. Regime opponants dressed in straitjackets will bring up the rear, but the television broadcast won't be allowed to show them.
Seriously, the one thing I do remember about these "Peace" festivals is that an enormous amount of work is required to replace the paving bricks that are crushed under the treads of these wonderful new tanks.

"Here's what you won't see:
Lead lined barrels of Polonium, followed by glass vials of biological agents, with colorful butterfly mines passing overhead. FSB agents following, goosestepping while holding up eavesdropping equipment in a salute to free speech. Regime opponants dressed in straitjackets will bring up the rear, but the television broadcast won't be allowed to show them. "

Cheap shots, and pointless if you're coming from the US which matches all of those (except possibly the polonium - but I wouldn't bet on it) and has it's own iconic uniform, the orange jumpsuit of freedom.

My guess is that the parade will include a few surprises of vehicles that Western analysts are not expecting - and whose production status is likely to be hotly contested. It's all about showmanship.

Originally posted by paraphi
Borat's a joke

What do you mean it's a joke? I was flipping through channels the other night and his documentary was on cable. He's a celebrated journalist from the republic of Kazakhstan. I didn't watch it for too long, though.

The Soviet treatment of the Jews was atrocious - typical Soviet really.

I grew up in the Soviet Union. About a quarter of students in my class in high school were of Jewish heritage. I do not recall any "atrocities". We all had a pretty normal life. I am ethically Russian but I dated a Jewish girl. My parents both had many, many Jewish friends. So stop that nonsense already.

If the life of a Soviet Jew was so good why did som many emigrate? Oh yes I forget, it was , "US Propaganda".

I ended up emigrating to the United States, and this has nothing to do with ethnicity. I just like it here very much. Whatever point you are trying to make is quite feeble, really.

I personaly think that they will show the T-95 in front off other tanks ranked in numberical order: T-95 T-90 T-80 etc.

Modernized T-72 Rogatka is likely to be shown too.
BMPT will be shown for sure, not at least because it shares some features with T-95, like unmanned turret.

Yum! More death on treads to frighten the weak democratic minded near- abroad that we used to crush with simple show-of-force exercises!
Combined with the capability of mighty TU-160's to drop munitions in the Bay of Biscay and the ability to shut off natural gas supply to Western Europe at a whim, the mighty peace loving Sov... er.. Russian "republic" will assert it's rightfull place among leading nations, and thwart the unilateral asperations of the fascist Mchitlercheneyburtonamericonski's!

Kosovo's on the table. Let's see what happens next.

Originally posted by aaaaa
Yum! More death on treads to frighten the weak democratic minded near- abroad that we used to crush with simple show-of-force exercises!
Combined with the capability of mighty TU-160's to drop munitions in the Bay of Biscay and the ability to shut off natural gas supply to Western Europe at a whim, the mighty peace loving Sov... er.. Russian "republic" will assert it's rightfull place among leading nations, and thwart the unilateral asperations of the fascist Mchitlercheneyburtonamericonski's!

Kosovo's on the table. Let's see what happens next.

As if the Americans disarmed their army after the collapse off the USSR...

All off the Russian "agression" is a reaction on the USA who refused to disarm whilest there was absolute world peace in the post USSR years...

Even worse: The USA fought many wars that it didnt need to fight and yet all off the western world is blaming Russia for its apparant "agression" whilest it is a reaction off how Agressive the Americans are...............


So i consider YOU aaaaa a troll.

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood

Originally posted by aaaaa
Yum! More death on treads to frighten the weak democratic minded near- abroad that we used to crush with simple show-of-force exercises!
Combined with the capability of mighty TU-160's to drop munitions in the Bay of Biscay and the ability to shut off natural gas supply to Western Europe at a whim, the mighty peace loving Sov... er.. Russian "republic" will assert it's rightfull place among leading nations, and thwart the unilateral asperations of the fascist Mchitlercheneyburtonamericonski's!

Kosovo's on the table. Let's see what happens next.

As if the Americans disarmed their army after the collapse off the USSR...

All off the Russian "agression" is a reaction on the USA who refused to disarm whilest there was absolute world peace in the post USSR years...

Even worse: The USA fought many wars that it didnt need to fight and yet all off the western world is blaming Russia for its apparant "agression" whilest it is a reaction off how Agressive the Americans are...............


So i consider YOU aaaaa a troll.

I suppose the history of Russia's militarism can be traced back to America, even if it happened before the U.S. came on to the world stage. Strange, then, that for decades the ruling elites in the USSR called the Yankees "reactionaries"!
The thread is about the Russians, so let's blame Americans. Hmm...
If you can ignore the drawdown of American armed forces in the 1990's and make the absurd claim that there was "absolute world peace" in that era, your consideration of who I am is as meaningless as what you write.

Originally posted by iskander
Cremation is not practiced in Russia by the way, so get your calculators out.

Well seems it has been since 1927 on a small scale. Bu as Russian cemetaries pose such a health risk, the creamtorium business gets set to expand big time.

The Donskoy crematorium based on the territory of Moscow’s Donskoy Cemetery was the first that was built in Russia in 1927. Atheistic Bolsheviks and ardent revolutionists were its first ‘clients’. It is closed now. The rest three crematoria based in Moscow make about 50,000 cremations a year. About 110,000 dead bodies are cremated in Russia in general today, which makes up only 6 percent of the total number of the deceased.

english.pravda.ru...

So accorsing to Russian sources about 1.83 million people die in Russia a year.

[edit on 25-1-2008 by mad scientist]

Originally posted by xmotex
reply to post by centurion1211

 

I hate to break it to you, but the Soviet Union disintegrated in 1991.

Really? Maybe in name only. People like Putin and iskander seem to be doing nothing but dreaming of the good old (soviet) days, and now seem to be trying to figure out how to bring them back.

Originally posted by paraphi
reply to post by iskander

 

I am trying to think of any advanced democracies who go in for this type of display, jack boots and all that. I am sure it will be impressive, but it is just a reminder that Russia has not grown up to be an advanced democracy.

Regards

Well, there's a post that's full of rubbish.

The US does parades.

The UK does parades (at least one every day in fact, but in the summer, we do at least two a day)

France does parades.

Turkey does parades.

Get my point?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
What do you mean it's a joke? I was flipping through channels the other night and his documentary was on cable. He's a celebrated journalist from the republic of Kazakhstan. I didn't watch it for too long, though.

Borat is a joke. He is played by British comedian Sasha Baren Cohen, who also played Ali G.

Borat has been around for much longer than you think anyway, so claims of it being anti-kasakh propaganda because of some tat with the US is rubbish, as he was a bit part sketch on the Ali G show in the late 90's on Channel 4.

Please, just because Borat made a film which all you peeps saw, doesn't mean you know the background or can surmise what his intentions where.

The film "Borat" made was to take the piss out of the Yanks more than Kazakh's, which he did very well. All the Americans shown on the film were truly ripped apart and shown for the dipsticks they were.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Really? Maybe in name only. People like Putin and iskander seem to be doing nothing but dreaming of the good old (soviet) days, and now seem to be trying to figure out how to bring them back.

LOL the difference is Putin is doing something about it, Iskander is just having wet dreams !

PS. I very mch doubt Iskanders claims abou his life have much truth to it. Gotta love the internet where people can indulge in fantasies of alternate lives.

[edit on 26-1-2008 by mad scientist]