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Scientists Clone Human Embyos

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posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by bigbert81
 


I am not against it if it will save lives as you claim.
You are seriously overlooking the inevitable by not recognizing that this, like everything else, is a double edge sword.
Every issue we face, no matter how severe, always contains an element of irony. You may fix a problem here but you unknowingly produce other more severe problems elsewhere.
This is sweet irony at its best because this too will be abused and taken for granted by those you currently hate.




Possibly, but I am failing to see how, if it's saving lives on one side, what kind of 'more severe' problems would happen?

I just don't really see it being mostly negative, or even 50/50 as far as cloning humans go.




posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:36 AM
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reply to post by Boondock78
 


I agree that the possibility of cloning parts is a good thing. Sort of like growing the ear on the back of a mouse type of situation.
But as for cloning a full human I really leery of that. After all who would they be a clone of? What type of “human” would they be? We have seen animal clones and they seem normal but they also are not human if you know what I mean. Humans are strange in so many ways that a clone might turn out to be some freakishly demented thing that feels no empathy what so ever, at the same time it could turn out to be some sniveling bawling mess that sheds tear over every breath that is exhaled.

Besides don’t we have enough humans around already? I would say yes to parts but not sure that creating a full person is the key. By full person I mean letting an embryo grow to adulthood.


I also agree with you on the time frame of your gut feeling on cloning but I have discussed that with you in another thread. I like you believe they are test subjects or slaves to some deviant perverse mind.

Raist



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by Raist
 


Of course you're correct. I would only like to see clones used for those with specific needs for body parts. However some body parts cannot function outside of a living being. Like, for example, the human heart. This item would need to be grown in a human body, to adulthood.

However, in most cases, the need for a replacement heart, lung or kidney is immediate and the recipient can't afford to wait for a body to fully gestate and mature. The body would need to be grown preemptively. In doing so, it may end up as an item with no chance of being covered by insurance, and would likely only be available to the rich. I don't like that idea one bit.

Add to that the problems with the system growing fully intelligent clones, and we have what would be essentially humans, who aren't quite humans. They would have their own personality and skills, but since they're sown rather than conceived, and harvested rather than birthed, scientists growing them may not see them as 'real' and they would be subject to abuse.

What if these clones could be lobotomized in utero? This way, there would be no chance of any cognitive development leading to the destruction of a self. Some may see this as just as cruel as abuse after birth, but I see it as insurance against harming a sentient individual.

Anyway, it's just one perspective.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Raist
 


I can see what you mean, but I'm afraid your fears are not being thought through entirely. All they do is manipulate the DNA to be the same as someone else, and then have them born...again.

It's not like some scientific fiction novel. It's a real person who just had their DNA told what to do.

I also think that this will go much more mainstream in the future. I wouldn't doubt for one minute that in 50 years time, parents have the option to give their children whatever characteristics they want.

And I highly doubt that these future children will be freaks without conscience.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


Essentially they will be the same as the person they were cloned from.

But the fact is that they could not be the same person. Their personality would most likely be different causing them in a sense to be a different person. Looking at the course of life of two individuals raised in the same home the same way they will grown to be two separate people.

The same goes for the identical twin separated at birth thing. Though they may have some similarities in life such as the same car make or what have you one maybe abusive to their spouse while the other is very loving and gentle.

Also if we were to grown a clone to adulthood would they not be human and deserving of the same human rights? What gives me the right to steal from another life to extend my own?

Other than that if we could find a way to grow specific parts things would be good. Also factor in that even if we were able to grow parts they would need to be at an adult or almost adult stage before they could be used. Many people in need of such parts do not have that sort of time on their hands to just sit and wait. Much of the time people do not find out about their condition until it is nearly too late or already too late.

I may not agree fully with the embryo portion for personal reasons but I can live with it. Letting one grow to adulthood cannot be good though because of the human rights issue.

Interesting topic though this can and will definitely open up a can of worms when mainstream media starts spending time on it.

Raist



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Rasobasi420
 


Here is something you might be interested in reading.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

According to this they grew a human heart without a body they grew it in gelatin. Also at this time it does not work but it can’t take too long to get one working.

I honestly think this is the way to go, growing our own parts.

Raist



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


Well I can't say I'd be much for growing a human into an adult, then slaughtering them, but I still think that kind of thing sits more on science fiction than reality. I just can't see it happening to that much of an extreme.

As far as personality goes, unless the clone has the same childhood and childhood friends as the original (I'm guessing not), they should have DIFFERENT personalities.

How does that quote go:

"Show me who your friends are, and I'll show you who you are."

And:

"Birds of a feather flock together".



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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Arent we 'cloning' humans by procreating? I mean there is still too many unanswered questions out there for me to take a stand on cloning humans....


The original post said that this guy put his skin cells in an egg-far from a human. I'm assuming this egg would eventually turn into a baby? Then raised, etc... Will it think exactly like the donors cells? I think it would be a different human.. I think when we see cloning we think you walk into a box then zap and out the other side comes out a full size human and I dont think that's what happening-but just my opinion



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by racerzeke
Arent we 'cloning' humans by procreating?


No, a clone is an exact copy of the original. When we procreate we take genetic materials from multiple sources and combine them to form a completely new, original animal.



The original post said that this guy put his skin cells in an egg-far from a human. I'm assuming this egg would eventually turn into a baby? Then raised, etc... Will it think exactly like the donors cells? I think it would be a different human..


It will be. People's thoughts and perceptions are influenced by the life they lead and experiences they have. These clones will be born and grow up as their own person. Think of it as an identical twin born 20-30 years apart.


I think when we see cloning we think you walk into a box then zap and out the other side comes out a full size human and I dont think that's what happening-but just my opinion


Maybe in Futurama, but not in real life, or in any Sci-Fi story worth it's salt.


apc

posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 09:23 AM
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I liked the Muliplicity cloning process...

You receive a full-body Xerox. Then they made a copy of a copy... it just didn't come out right.


The funny thing is just about anything science fiction can dream up, somebody will eventually do. One way or another.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 09:48 AM
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Science fiction author, Frank Herbert, covered this concept in the guise of Duncan Idaho, the man who was cloned over and over again. He would live and die and eventually would remember his experiences from his previous lives, which in every case, ended in some violent scenario while in the service of the Atriedes famly. They had him recloned because they liked him and wanted to keep him in their service for generations... so they did. Poor guy remembered it all. Slave to a royal family for thousands of years. Several of his clones were murdered by the same people who cloned him. I can see the rich and powerful abusing the concept to the point of insanity.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 



Possibly, but I am failing to see how, if it's saving lives on one side, what kind of 'more severe' problems would happen?

I just don't really see it being mostly negative, or even 50/50 as far as cloning humans go.


Thats why I call these "unforeseen" because people always fail to look at whole picture.
We scream about losing our freedom and yet embrace another topic of discussion that has a greater potential of jeopardizing our freedom like nothing else.

Soon they'll be taken samples from certain people by force to create more sheeple. Then they'll start taking DNA from super soldires to create a super army, from aethiests, from dictators, from murders...[you fill in the remaing blanks]

To take it further, combine DNA from a super soldier with a little from a serial killer and a little from an atheist you end up with a super efficient killing machine unable to feel any of guilt or remorse for murdering people whatsoever, while knowing he'll never have to answer to anyone for his actions.

Let me be the first to say this; People are people, Man will be Man, so once Man begins creating Clones there will be yet another group of people to hate.

I could already hear it, "Hey Cloner, that's gonna cost you an arm and a leg!"



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by apc
I liked the Muliplicity cloning process...

You receive a full-body Xerox. Then they made a copy of a copy... it just didn't come out right.


The funny thing is just about anything science fiction can dream up, somebody will eventually do. One way or another.


Once the cloning process starts, I'm investing in PizzaHut stock.
"I like Pizza, I L-I-I-I-I-K-K-E IT!



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Alxandro
 




Sorry, I don't mean any offense, but it sounds to me like your imagination might be running a little wild.

First, I don't see this as jeapordizing our freedoms at all unless clones and non-clones both walk the streets, and then the state feels the need to tell them apart and issues Real ID cards. Something that's already happening, despite the fact there aren't any clones.

Second, as far as combining these DNAs of serial killers, super soldiers, and atheists, and then having an unstoppable killing machine on the loose is pretty ludicrous. People become sociopaths based on how they're raised.

Third, why atheists? I busted out laughing when I read atheists in the same category as serial killers. I hope that was a joke, because it got me rolling.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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I thought they had a law against doing this. I happen to know that back in 95 they had a law and the people that did that one ended up in prison due to that fact. Human cloning was not allowed. As far as I know that still goes. We need to realize that humans being cloned is different then animals being cloned. And look at most of the animals having tumors and being riddled with cancers.

Hilda



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by hildar
I thought they had a law against doing this. I happen to know that back in 95 they had a law and the people that did that one ended up in prison due to that fact. Human cloning was not allowed. As far as I know that still goes. We need to realize that humans being cloned is different then animals being cloned. And look at most of the animals having tumors and being riddled with cancers.

Hilda


Hmmm, I hadn't ever heard of that before. Do you have a source for any of this?

Also, as far as I know, there were people TRYING to make it illegal, but I don't think anything passed.


apc

posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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There can be no federal funding for such programs, but legality depends on the state.

So how is cloning humans different from cloning other animals?



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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There was some fancy schmancy name for it ,
referring to recombinant DNA

[edit on 19-1-2008 by undo]



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


I know it was a little extreme but once again you miss the point and fail to see the possibilites (Is there a wall I can smash my head against?) that the "powers that be" will take this opportunity to further their agenda.

Give it time, some corporation will find a way to a capitalize on this situation, recognize this is a huge money making opportunity to screw the public. Might be the CDC or one of the large pharmaceutical corporations.

As for street walking clones, it'll be OK if they walk the streets with non-Cloners, but you know the pimps won't clone themselves, they'll clone their top money makers.

Yes most people become sociopaths based on how they are raised, but I'm sure there is a gene that also contributes to this type of behavior as well.

Once THEY recognize the possibilites of cloning THEY WILL produce this unstoppable killing army of super soldiers.
Can you think of a better way to bring about the proverbial Police State Militia?

As for the atheist comment, I am not comparing them to serial killers so once again you missed my point. (Where's that wall again?)
With all the personality traits and characterisitics of people THEY will have to work with, the end result of the type of clones that can be produced will be extremely immeasurable.
If you possess a trait that they find interesting, they will take your DNA by force and incorporate it into THEIR experiment. Same goes for everyone else, including atheists.

Oh sweet, long, lost freedom.
Again, this may not directly affect our freedoms, but it will indirectly. My post may be extreme but I'm just expecting the worse and hoping for the best.



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 07:41 AM
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Here are a few places that talk about it being illegal to clone humans. One is in the UK but I havent seen the one about US yet but it was illegal before in 95 or 98 so I will keep looking.

lite.researchresearch.com...

royalsociety.org...

www.newscientist.com...

www.un.org...


But from what I am taking here they can still do it, they just now wont get any government funding. That sucks because humans shouldnt be cloned like they are animals. And with all of the info on the animals most are diseased and are riddled with tumors, and Cancers.



Ok I think I found where the illegal part came in:

www.wired.com...

Hilda

[edit on 20-1-2008 by hildar]



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