This Divided State: Michael Moore at Utah Valley State College

The one guy who said that "There is no such thing as an objective viewpoint," is spot on.. I will say that

I am going to say upfront, this won't come as much of a surprise to posters who have been here for a while and follow my posts, I personally do not like Micheal Moore. I think the man causes more problems than he is worth, in all reality.

Now, with that beeing said, the main guy who basically tried to bribe the college, I think he is just as despicable as Michael Moore. When I look in the man's eyes, all I see is contempt, disdain and hatred. The eyes are truly the window of the spirit.

He himself even said that he felt as though he were going against the doctrines of his own religion by being contemptuous. That to me is an eye opener.. For if one admits that they are doing wrong, they probably are.

I think that we are rolling down a slippery slope when we start trying to censor the voice of AMERCAN CITIZEN in America. Now, issues such as Columbia allowing the president of Iran come and speak are a whole other issue. I thought that it was detestable that Columbia even entertained such an idea, the fact that they allowed it to happen is a whole other can of worms that I am not even going to get into here.

However, when you start to censor the voice of the AMERICAN CITIZEN within our own borders, I think it's a path that leads to no where that's good.

Rockpuck..Michael Moore is not the issue here. It could have been anyone with alternative points of views. I'm sure Marilyn Manson would have got the same types of responces. I don't like Moore either but after watching the whole film I realized it wasn't about Moore...

and Speaker..
with all due respect, was it the communitys money that payed for moore to come out and speak or was it the colleges money?

anyways, i thought the movie was good...some of it was down right scary..and i'm not just speaking against the mormons because like another member previously pointed out this could happen in any small community that isolates it self from the outside. what made this so scary was how passionate some people are..unreasonably passionate..extremists

Wow. Amazing video. I skipped part 3 and 4, as I assume it was mostly more arguing between pro-moore and anti-moore. However, wow, just wow. I'm at a loss for words.

How can these American lovers just spit on the Constitution and pretend like they are the patriotic people? Did you see at the end the smug look on the face of the guy when Joe had to resign? He basically ruined this guys life - maybe not ruined it but certainly disrupted it - over free speech.

He may hold sway in his state but there are more people who agree with Michael Moore in this country than I believe he realizes. I personally wish we were more active and did to him what he did to Joe. Ruin his life and his career with constant threats and lawsuits over nothing.

Unbelievable.

What we all have to remember is these fine points. This film was a great demonstration of freedom of speech at work. The students protesting against Michael Moore were doing it the right way. Protesting against what they felt was a viewpoint they did not share. They had every right to protest peacefully get a petition signed and try to gain consensus for their views. Do I agree with their viewpoint? No, but they did have a right to express it.

The group that endorsed Michael Moore was also right in expressing their views to make sure that a different viewpoint was able to speak at a largly conservative school. I personaly agree with their point and they did have a right to their opinion.

The one that I cannot agree with is Mr. Anderson. Bribery is not only wrong, illegal and immoral but it was done solely to repress someones right to free speech and others rights to hear a different viewpoint. Resorting to threats such as pulling funding from the school and the impotent threat of firing the entire staff and replacing them was also wrong. The lawsuit against the student government in my opinion was just folly, a desperate last ditch attempt to stop freedom of speech and the rights of those that would like to listen to an opposing viewpoint.

What this video in my opinion showed is that passionately voicing your opinion and debating the issue is very much alive in this country and is what makes this country great. Both sides were very much active in this fight, both sides held firm to their opinion which they did have the right to hold.

reply to post by radiodjguy


Agreed but watching the video I wouldn't paint it all in such a rosy picture.
We heard talk of death threats, of the students president being intimidated and
threatened, the protests on the day of the speech involved heavy security and
it seemed given the tension that a mass brawl or riot could have broken out at any stage due to the amount of passion and/or vitriol from both sides.

Sean Hannity is such an idiotic farse.

reply to post by pmexplorer



You are absolutely right. The death threats were uncalled for. That in my opinion was ignorant and wrong. A person who feels strongly in a belief or idea may do so and should not worry about being killed for his belief. Especially when we are talking about something as sacred to America as the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment are concerned.

Differences of Ideology should be allowed to be discussed and should always be protected. The security at the event in my opinion is an unfortunate casualty but a necessary one. They were there in order to facilitate both sides of the argument and allow both sides to express their constitutional right of free speech.

I have a roommate that is completely against the first amendment of the United States. He feels that the Republican Party is the only viewpoint that has any validity. In his opinion everyone else should just "Shut Up" His rationale is that during a time of war we should support our government in doing whatever it likes and if you don't like it you are a traitor.

I disagree with his opinion of course. But on the same hand he does have the right to that opinion. I feel that we don't have to support the war to support our troops. They are the ones that have no choice in what war they are in. I disagree with many things my roommate says. However he does have the right to his opinion and in that way his opinion is valid.

I do apologize to you pmexplorer for painting such a rosy picture of the events that transpired at the Utah Valley College. Some of the events that transpired were not in accordance with the wishes and dreams of the founding fathers of our country and deserve critical examination.

Originally posted by The-Dude
Sean Hannity is such an idiotic farse.

While I do not agree with the statements and the blatant humiliation of the student "Vinny" perpetuated by Mr. Hannity I still have to agree that Mr Hannity has the absolute right to his opinion. He should have had that opportunity to express his opinion and have others listen to it. You don't have to agree with his opinion, (I certainly don't) but you have to understand that while we may not agree with his viewpoint he does have the right to that viewpoint. We cannot take that right away from him.

The point that I think that we are missing is the fact that such a controversial speaker like Michael Moore was allowed to speak at this college. In a state that has a majority conservative population. And that in my opinion is a great day for freedom.

This entire film was centered around the first amendment and the lengths that people in this country have to go through to uphold that most sacred of freedoms. We should always fight to protect this most basic of our civil rights.

reply to post by Roland Deschain


I totally agree. It was fanatical extremism, and in some cases outright lies.
But this is not something confined to Utah. It is everywhere.

reply to post by Roland Deschain


I totally agree. It was fanatical extremism, and in some cases outright lies.
But this is not something confined to Utah. It is everywhere.

So, I'm guessing by the responses, this is worth viewing? I'll watch it tomorrow when I have some time and give my opinions of it then.

reply to post by Critical_Mass


I suppose you are correct, but at the same time I disagree. Example:

I think Bill O'Reilly is a moron. I think he lies, and knows it. He twists facts, belittles people to promote his agenda, and overall hurts the country.

However, I would not even flinch if he came to speak near me. I don't think any liberal area would put up much of a fight. There might be some people protesting him and pointing out what an idiot he is, but certainly not objecting to his presence.

This is just another example of the hypocracy of ultra-conservatism. Or should I say conservative extremists?

This post may sound biased towards the republican party, but it's not. I promise if/when someone posts liberals acting in this manner I'll have the same response.

When Mr. Kay Anderson made the comment about living in Nevada in a town with four cat houses, and that he didn't have to go in to know they were bad. I thought, maybe if you had gone in, you would have found that the drinks are a little pricey, uhum, so I've heard, and maybe the girls could have helped you locate that bug way up your back side.

I think the movie was more about him, and people like him than Michael Moore, or Sean Hannity. Personally I don't care for either one of those two extremists.

Mr. Anderson did nothing but damage pure and simple. He fanned the flames that lost the school $200,000 in donations. (All the students loose.) He showed he would go so far and pay them off. (Sounds kinda like a bribe. A horrible example to the students.) He tried to strip the students of thier constitutional right. (Wrong entirely.) I would assume he played a major roll in the resignation of the Student Vice President, after all, he dropped the law suit after that. (Causing a damaged relationship between friends.) Other than that, the only thing he accomplished was to demonstrate he had a right to do it, but that was the very same thing he was trying to deny the students. Wow, who knew? Oh yeah, one more thing, he did sell more papers than anybody in school history.

The movie did demonstrate that America is still a place where you don't have to put up with people like Mr. Anderson, but as you can see from above, there is always a heavy price to pay.

PS The professor from the Humanities Department was totally wacked. I loved him.

We need to remember that whether it was the communities money or the college's money that the college is funded by taxpayers and the students who go there. They have everyright to stand up and say they don't want their money spent on someone like Michael Moore. Now, if moore went to the college and was not paid that is a different story.

I also love how liberals pretend that they would do nothing if Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity or any other conservative came to speak at their school or whatever. That they are really all that tolerant. Just look at what happened to Ann Coultier, they protested her coming, they disrupted her speech and threw a pie at her. Talk about tolerance for free speech. How about what happened to the head of the Minute Man group when he TRIED to speak at Columbia, what did all those liberal free speach supporters do? Disrupt his speech so that he couldn't speak. I can keep reciting examples if you would like. Don't pretend to be above this or high and mighty, liberals are only tolerant of those who agree with them. The second you disagree the name calling start, you're a homophobe,bigot,racist,redneck etc.

reply to post by saynotoliberalism


Throwing a pie is just as dispicable.

You honestly justify these actions? It's funny, two posts up I just said I wouldn't even blink if Bill O'Reilly came to speak near me.

And did you not watch the movie? The tickets were paying for Michael Moore. Also, the conservative speaker had to have a private jet paid for.

Your views are very jaded, but what could one expect with a name like "saynotoliberalism"?

However, throwing a pie and disrupting a speech are hardly even close to what happened here. Petitions to fire, lawsuits, and bribery are just a few of the terrible things documented in this video.

You missed the point, I'm afraid. It wasn't "conservatives" are bad. The point was that when you are so sure of yourself and your views that you can't even hear the other side of the story, you not only hurt yourself - from being so egotistical and unrefined - but you hurt everyone else around you also.

Maybe you should take a lesson from the movie...

*edited to add:

I disagree about the money issue. 2 reasons.

1) The tickets were paying for all or most of Michael Moore's visit.
2) Protesting is fine. Showing up and making a scene while he is speaking would have also been fine - but tactless.

Throwing a fit and making a mockery of themselves is not fine. It was pathetic. A place of learning, a University no less, had more childish actions that week than most elementary schools.

Remember, only one person was truely effected, and that was the guy named Joe. Fired for trying to enlighten his peers.

[edit on 20-1-2008 by Sublime620]

I think this film was great, and it really has not so much to do with Michael Moore.

It was grat because it places strong emphasis on how powerful 2 college kids can be when they stand up for what they believe in and help open the eyes of others.

I can only hope there are more kids like this and that they continue exercising free speech to no end. Especially in these times where Universities already have "influences" installed to suit the purpose of indoctrination.

I give it a thumbs up. very good stuff.

Interesting documentary.. this would never ever happen in Canada.

Ignorant Americans, they are living in the past.

reply to post by zinco100


tt. Yeah, we'll see how smart you Canadians are when you are forcibly integrated with us in the NAU.

Originally posted by zinco100
Interesting documentary.. this would never ever happen in Canada.

Ignorant Americans, they are living in the past.

Yeah, okay. Never fails. More Anti-American drivel..

[edit on 23-1-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by AboveTopSecret.com

 

Ah... ATS endorsing Michael Moore.... interesting.

isn't suppressing someones "disruption" of someones speech also a disruption of someones right to speech? ..

Or are Republicans just supposed to roll over let Moore do as he wishes without even the slightest argument?

I didn't watch past chapter 2 as michael moore makes me sick.

And ATS endorsing this fat political pig makes me sick as well.

Seconded. Is ATS being paid for this?