The Holocaust is Overrated

This is outrageous! My people were in this country before the Sphinx was built and I don't personally know any Jewish people, but you can't kill people like cattle or vermin. -----PC

reply to post by mybigunit


Better question: Why do people people keep answering and then restating the OP's question.
There are a lot of fine reasons why the Holocaust is so focused on, and there are probably a few bad ones, there always are. So why are the people asking why it gets so much attention giving it so much attention? Besides, we're taling about school textbooks here, they are famous for giving a striped down version of history intended for teenagers and kids, and the Western school system is mainly about slamming people with something until the memorize it. The Holocaust was recent, it's directly connected to the US' involvement in the war, and it comes with a lot of pictures, video, and spoken word to keep kids paying attention. With that much press, of course it stays with people who had to learn it, and those pictures tend to stick with you.

Great i get to read the 1,000,000th thread about the Holocaust, that covers all the same opinions as all the threads that I had the displeasure of reading. I wonder why I even let this crap suck me in!!!

reply to post by Dark Crystalline


There is so much BS in your posts to reply to - where to start? Maybe first by saying that I'd have you on ignore already, except that I want to see what the rest of the sane people here say to you and why.

You say the IDF was in your country recently? Please show us some links proving this - and spare us all any from al-jazeera, etc.

You say Hungary never attacked anyone? Then how did the Austro-Hungarian empire come to be? And, say, it says right here that Hungary was part of the Axis powers (Germany, Italy, Japan, etc.) during WWII. Allied with the same Germany that actually did the slaughtering of 6 million Jewish human beings. Now we start to understand where you are coming from ...

Article

The term "Axis powers" formally took the name after the Tripartite Pact was signed by Germany, Italy and Japan on September 27, 1940 in Berlin, Germany. The pact was subsequently joined by Hungary (November 20, 1940), Romania (November 23, 1940), Slovakia (November 24, 1940) and Bulgaria (March 1, 1941).

But they must be leaving that out of the "new (revisionist?) history" they're teaching you these days. This would be sad if it wasn't so sick.

That's the other feeling I get reading that you think you are "enlightened" with "powers" higher than the rest of us. If racism, bigotry, naivite, hypocrisy, etc. are powers, then surely you do have "powers". Can't help but wish you'd exercise them somewhere else.

Anyone else wish this thread was closed and locked?

[edit on 1/17/2008 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by italkyoulisten
But they are wrong. I mean, the focus on Jewish deaths should be the first tip off that something is up here. Three million Polish people were exterminated, as well as three million other assorted minorities. Why do they not have a voice? When you talk about the Holocaust, you'd probably immediately think Jewish people.

You give yourself away as probably being anti-semitic to some extent from the get go with stuff like this. "The focus on Jewish deaths should be the first tip off" you said, quote unquote. So if people bring attention to a tragedy involving Jewish people, something must be up huh? Because Jews just cannot exist peacefully without being at the middle of some grand worldwide scheme, right? I think it is hilarious how some people think Jews control the world, I mean .. where does that leave room for the Illuminati and the Reptilian Shapeshifters? Lol. (Joke)

But most of the Polish 3 mil you claim died were Jewish. Most textbooks say "over 6 million people died". Alot of these were Russian prisoners of war, other minorities besides Jews, you are correct. But, the largest single group were the Jews, and of the 6 million death toll, they do get stuck with a few million deaths, more than any other single group by far.

So I'm sorry but .. I don't see what the fuss is about. I guess every other anti-semitic person starred this thread.

If you look at the losses Russia incurred on the battlefield in WW2, you'd think they'd be a little more sympathetic toward Israel, because the two biggest groups that suffered losses were the Russians and Jews. Russians militarily, the Jews in a police-state style round up.

[edit on 1/18/2008 by runetang]

I have to ask why we always hear people complaining about the holocaust either being over rated or not as BAD as they say it was,
But no other genocides in history gets this same treatment.

Why do people try to dismiss the holocaust?

I don't believe I have ever seen a topic posted on a forum that questions the others through out history.

This just proves to me that antisemitism is alive and well and thriving.

The Holocaust is Overrated

I find this title so offensive.

[edit on 123131p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]

Holy crap guys what does this have to do with anti-semitism at all. All I am saying is that for some reason the Holocaust gets more attention than any other atrocity in human history even though it is certainly not the worst as some claim. I mean it was huge. Some of the people seem to understand what I am saying, while others just call it anti-semitic. Did you even read my original post or did you just read the title and jump to conclusions? I am not trying to be anti-semitic at all. Why can't you even question anything about the Holocaust without being labeled anti-semitic.

I am not even denying any part of the Holocaust. I did not say it was not horrible. I am just saying that even at its full extent, it was not incomparable to other atrocities in human history, yet it is slammed in our face all the time. And my example was the Japanese atrocities that occurred in Asia at about the same time which does not get any attention and not only that, it is almost written out of the textbooks. All I am asking is why are we taught it so much, in comparison to the other horrible tragedies in human history, which barely get mention and I am an anti-semite for it.

The answer doesn't have to be an anti-semitic one. Maybe the Holocaust gets more play because the Japanese cut deals with the US government in exchange to keep their atrocities secret? Maybe the US government wants to create a generic "Evil" image for the public to hate, so they use the Holocaust to further establish the Nazis as "Pure Evil", so the common hatred would unite the people.

So stop labeling people and start answering my question, which is pretty legitimate.

[edit on 18-1-2008 by italkyoulisten]

I would tend to agree with the original poster.
As I have said and will say, even Hitler is not as Evil as Hitler.

Think about it, he is looked at as Satan.
But lest we forget, we cannot put all our own faults onto someone else.
Whatever Hitler may have supported, he was not the one who carried out the action.

Its up to the individual human as to what choice they will make.
Pointing a finger at the government doesnt work - the governments only show the mass unconsciousness for what it is. Governemtns, all of them are a representation of the people by the people. Dont like it? Then change. Change starts with you.

Demonification of one person only suites to manipulate people to an agenda.
All of the Jews killed in the holocaust? What about all of the German civilians after the war ended when the U.S. president ordered a blitz on them? hmmm, anyway.

This does not take away from the devastation of the holocaust, but let us remember, that the holocaust is not limited to one event to one place in history for one group of people.

We say let us remember history so that we will not repeat it, all the while we say this as we create a holocaust in Gaza for all the innocent people caged up there and dieing. (civilians and children live there to and are the victims of sanctions, etc. Not the fat, wealthy politicians who arent living there but in Syria and elsewhere.)

In saying the holocaust only happened to one group of people this may create a channel for which that group can then extradite a holocaust against another group for their own purposes.

Again, Gypsies, and many other people died in this holocaust.

And Jewish. This term is tricky. What is a Jew.
Even Rabbi(s) have said only God knows who the true Jew is.
Another rabbi (chassidic) said for a conversion to happen to be Jewish they have to be sure that you identify with the pain of the Jews and are ready to suffer when they do.

Being Jewish is not ethnic. NOt in the least. If so then the anti-christ conspiracy is already happening, and the true Jews (palestinians) are being tortured before our very eyes. Is it religious, yes...what of the secular ones? Well I suppose they are a created nation just like any other then...not bloodline. Of course at a certain point of the creation of a nation it becomes bloodline, but refer to what I mentioned before that the rabbis have said.

Im not picking on Jews or any other nation. But this collective pain body bit seems to hold true to what the chassidic rabbi said about being Jewish.

Who are we? We are all people. - well according to post, some may be shapeshifting reopitlians
But the fact is we are all life forms who identify with our stories and thus divide.
Story is not bad, but story can get insane.

Look at the middle east.

Who gives a flying whatever about who owns the piece of desert there.
If it was a struggle between me as a nation and some other nations, I would say take the darn desert. Whats there thats so important? A secret genetics lab...well i might be interested.

But a rock from God? God the way most people understand him (read carefully, the way most people understand him) doesnt exist. Notice that for someone that supposedly has a vested interest in a very special piece of land, this God sure gets amused over watching centuries of killings and not stepping in. (i know, part of the plan) Pretty sadistic if you ask me.

So here is my plea to all. You can call yourself Jewish, Gypsie, I dont really care.
Is this your nation, or religion, I dont care with that either. But killing each other off - well I suppose thats what you signed up for in this life. If not, why do you guys (people in general in the world) want to always fight?

Bunch of kids in a sandbox really.

People always crying peace, but dont do the one thing that it takes to get get peace.
What a joke. Humanity is a silly race. No wonder there is no disclosure, as it were, that people cry out for in the forums. Aliens think your all nuts.
Well, they just dont want to interrupt in your story. heheh

eace

dAlen

Originally posted by italkyoulisten
Holy crap guys what does this have to do with anti-semitism at all. All I am saying is that for some reason the Holocaust gets more attention than any other atrocity in human history even though it is certainly not the worst as some claim. I mean it was huge. Some of the people seem to understand what I am saying, while others just call it anti-semitic. Did you even read my original post or did you just read the title and jump to conclusions?

dude, you got it with your last sentence. Dont worry about it.
And for those who label you...just ignore them. Whatever you do, dont try to enlighten them, they will not listen - they feed of this stuff (conflict). They are not here to deny ignorance, as it were, but here to continue to push their dogmatic viewpoint.

This happens quite often with topcis like this, or any other. People come with a closed mind, so how can anything else enter. Seriously...dont worry about it. Breathe, and just dont reply to such a post because they wont get it.

I got your point and it was well stated. Those who agree, already know...those who dont agree will label you a heretic until that seed roots and grows in them...if ever.

Suppose this keeps us in check and humble.

peace, and thanks for sharing

dAlen

note: also, what you said about collective evil is good.
I wrote about that somewhere in post here about the holocaust. We like to collectively hate things so we can hide behind that hate and create newer and even crueler atrocities.

In short, as I said in one of the post in this thread...we dont like to pony up that we have our own responsibility for our own actions. If I pull a trigger and kill anyone, its my choice no matter how brainwashed I am. Sounds unfair? Its not really if you look at the collective whole and how things inner relate in the universe.

For the most part, we are all brainswashed by our milieu. We believe whatever it is in our surroundings. Was I born in the middle east? Then Im a muslim (unless I had the Jewish upbringing) If im born in America, Im Christian...it works that easy.

We have to go beyond baby stage, wake up and see we have choices. Not say, "hitler made me do it" - "George Bush made me do it". No one but you made you do anything.
Nothing but the identification with the collective ego that likes to play games.

[edit on 18-1-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I have to ask why we always hear people complaining about the holocaust either being over rated or not as BAD as they say it was,
But no other genocides in history gets this same treatment.

Why do people try to dismiss the holocaust?

I don't believe I have ever seen a topic posted on a forum that questions the others through out history.

This just proves to me that antisemitism is alive and well and thriving.

The Holocaust is Overrated

I find this title so offensive.

[edit on 123131p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]

I find it offensive, perhaps, that you did not bother to read and feel what the O.P. was saying.

We are conditioned to say "Hitler is Satan" - "holocaust is hell", and this way we dont feel as bad as we do what we call lesser evils. Like the genocide throughout the world in various nations. Its not bad because it doesnt equal holocaust standards of bad.

So in a sense humanity now gets away with a lot of evil. And there are activities that would rank with it or surpass, but it wont be stated that way...after all, people want to commit their atrocities, and will always point how something else was worse.

Killing is 'bad' period. Regardless of who dies.
You say holocaust, you think jews...how many of them were not Jews?
See the point is not about labels...its not about race...its not about religion.

The point is that living people are murdered. If we see it this way, we may learn something. But if we see it as just one group being victimized, then other groups (palestinians for example) will continue to be victimized.

Peace

dAlen

It's amazing the way alot of you are reacting to this thread. You are absolutely missing the point of the thread because of the title he chose for it. Making personal attacks on him and getting all excited, such primitive behaviour. Open your mind a bit, educate yourself on all these other events that have occured if you haven't already and then you will see what he is getting at. I sympathize for the Jewish people and what they had to go through, but man did they have it easy compared to what the asian people went through at the hands of the Japanese. I only know what I do about these events because of what I taught myself. I only just realized the attrocities the Soviets enacted on the innocents as they forced the Germans out of Russia, raping and pillaging as they went citing revenge for what the German's did as they pushed their way into russia because of a book I just started reading (von Braun biography). Other than a few sentences here or there I don't remember anything about these events from high school.

Also, this thread shows just how some people just can't carry on a debate or simple discussion for the life of them, and how little it takes to set some people off when it really shouldn't.

Originally posted by runetang
So I'm sorry but .. I don't see what the fuss is about. I guess every other anti-semitic person starred this thread.

If you look at the losses Russia incurred on the battlefield in WW2, you'd think they'd be a little more sympathetic toward Israel, because the two biggest groups that suffered losses were the Russians and Jews. Russians militarily, the Jews in a police-state style round up.

[edit on 1/18/2008 by runetang]

It would seem the fuss is simple, again this is my perspective.
The whole thing is not about Jews. It matters not what label you put to something - the fact is that people die, and the murders are the atrocities, no matter what race or religion you adhere to.

The fact that these things happen and continue to is the point. Its as if we point out one thing in history and are able to overlook all the injustice from that point on. Well remember, they overlooked the holocaust when it happened. It was only afterwards it became important to politicians. But while it was happening, no one did anything about it and they knew it was happening.

Same with Gaza and other places where civilians, babies are murdered.
Basically, they do what they want, that is kill off who they want and then later use it (how bad it was) as a political spin for another objective.

Point is murder is bad from the moment it happens. Why was nothing done before hand when thy knew is what needs to be asked. A group of Jews actually are asking this very question...all though there view point is not in the mainstream. Nutrei Karta.
I posted links before, but people like to stay polarized and act as if the world is against them.

This is not about anti-semetic. That word is so warn out its pathetic.
Its meant to create fear in people, and if that is not the purpose, then the people who use it are in fear. Point is, this is about something more than semeticism, or whatever...its about the brother/sisterhood of the world...not being an isolationist with a victim story while others have suffered the same fate.

Solomon - "nothing new under the sun"

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by Dark Crystalline
Come here, live here, talk with Hungarians,

hmm...your Hungarian.

1) Do you live in Hungary? Most dont, they left the God forsaken country.
(I can say that, I live here...the mentality for the most part is pathetic.)
edit: You must be in Hungary, no one else would admit they are Hungarian.
(saw this when I lived in Atlanta...there ashamed of their silly relatives back at home who cling to silly patriotic non-sense)

2)You said "Hungary never attacked anyone"...here is some history:
Hungary never attacked anyone because for the most part, they were owned by whoever the power was closet to them. They tried to attack in the 50's the soviets to get free and couldnt. (not picking on Hungary, but on your patriotic mis-mash...Im not into that talk regardless of whose race or country uses it)

- The Hungarians sided with Germany in the War...thats why their land was given to the Romanians...the people you love so dearly.
- Hungary was owned by: Turks, Austrians, Russians, (Americans for the most part now), E.U., ,etc.

Point is Im personally tired of the whole Hungarian patriotic sorrow crap I hear constantly. Please, just keep it at home, its just irrelevant. (And again, I bet you dont even live here.)

peace

dAlen

- I dont know which I dislike more:
a) the term 'anti-semetic'
b) the hungarian patriotic sorrow (I think they are one in the same)


[edit on 18-1-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by italkyoulisten
Did you even read my original post or did you just read the title and jump to conclusions? I am not trying to be anti-semitic at all. Why can't you even question anything about the Holocaust without being labeled anti-semitic.

You've not read any of the replies, have you?

Its just that your point has been addressed in a number of them.

Heres a question for you though;

If the actions of the Japanese in China during WW2 was the main focus of Western history studies, and taught in the same vein as the Holocaust, would you be here complaining that it was all you heard about, and pointing out the suffering of the Jewish people in the concetration camps at the hands of Nazi Germany as a suitable alternative?

Originally posted by dAlen
Whatever Hitler may have supported, he was not the one who carried out the action.

So Bin Ladens ok then?

Applying this logic, we should leave him alone, right?

The difference between the various genocides and the Holocaust is this, with very few exceptions, were carried out by conquerors against the conquered. That doesn't make it right, doesn't make it forgivable, just different.

Germany in the latter stages of the '30's and early 40's, systematically turned on a portion of it's own population. Then proceeded to do the same throughout a good sized chunk of Europe. This was a supposedly civilized nation turning on its own people who were just as civilized. Though, of course, they denied any such thing.

No one is saying brush all of mankinds atrocities to himself under the carpet. The Holocaust is remembered because it is so very well documented by the perpetrators themselves.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by dAlen
Whatever Hitler may have supported, he was not the one who carried out the action.

So Bin Ladens ok then?

Applying this logic, we should leave him alone, right?

pull out one quote and think you have it?
This is a shifting of your responsibility.

but sense you went there...I will to.
Did Bin Laden do something? Or did someone listen to him.
Oh, forget that people have free will - Again, assigning the guilt to one person doesnt help anyone. ("Bin Laden made me do it" - whats next, santa clause made do it!)

Point is, can YOU think for yourself. Can YOU make your own choices for your own actions.

Read in context please...and keeping to my own rules I typically dont reply if someone doesnt get it, cause they dont want to get it.

peace

dAlen

[edit on 18-1-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by dAlen
pull out one quote and think you have it?

Have what, exactly? You've lost me there.

Read in context please...and keeping to my own rules I typically dont reply if someone doesnt get it, cause they dont want to get it.

What is it I don't want to get?

I read it in context. You say that Hitler didn't carry out the actions, so that makes him less evil than those who did.

He ordered the actions and did nothing to stop them being carried out in full knowledge of what was happening.

I'd say that makes him as culpable as anyone involved in the process.

Originally posted by italkyoulisten
So stop labeling people and start answering my question, which is pretty legitimate.

Your question was addressed many times, and yet you fail to conveniently address the answers. Rather you keep asking the same question.

Why?

Originally posted by dAlen
We are conditioned to say "Hitler is Satan" - "holocaust is hell", and this way we dont feel as bad as we do what we call lesser evils. Like the genocide throughout the world in various nations. Its not bad because it doesnt equal holocaust standards of bad.

Gibberish.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I have to ask why we always hear people complaining about the holocaust either being over rated or not as BAD as they say it was,
But no other genocides in history gets this same treatment.

Fair question.


[edit on 18-1-2008 by loam]

for me, the choosing of the words ´overrated´is more than disturbing.
what the OP does is classical downplaying of the holocaust. (that is tactically used by Neonazis)
In germany that is against the law.

plase stop this thread, and start a better one, otherwise this is more than suspicious.