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The Holocaust is Overrated

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posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 04:24 AM
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Reply to PartChimp

The fact that there are stars above your post is both baffling and disgusting

No it shows not everyone thinks like you. It show there are people who are scared to put out what they think because people like You will come in and start labelling them OMG sick,disgusting,anti-semite,jew hater!
It’s a conspiracy forum not a ‘You All should have the same View as me’ forum.

Let me tell you something, if I feel there’s something that doesn’t sound right than I will put my views forward. If I am ‘sick’ for doing that than try stop me if you can. If you cant stop me than debate with me if you can. If you can’t debate with me than go to sleep. When you Wake Up Properly than come back.

No, it isn't exactly right. In fact, it's very far from being right. Can you list all of the Zionists in control of the media for me?

Media Zionists control
ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, UPN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Daily News, Time Magazine, Newsweek, People Magazine, US News and World Report and countless other media and Hollywood companies all have either a Zionist CEO, or a Zionist News President, or are owned by a media conglomerate which has a Zionist CEO.Have you ever noticed how Hollywood movies always seem to portray Germans and Arabs as a bigoted fanatics or terrorists? Now you know why!

Reply to Kernel Korn

I'm just not getting the point. Why do we look at what happened as less? Because they're jews? If that is the case, this isn't a forum that I want to be around. I thought we thought here not to spread ignorance.

When there is Islam bashing I don’t see you and a ton of Mods trying to stop it.
We look at it as less because Jews blood is not special,theres others blood that have been spilt in the past in horrific atrocities much worse than holocaust..

Spread hate elsewhere. I noticed a few other lurkers and they're SO in line with this. My question is, "What's the problem?"

The Problem is That you think everyone should Think like you.


Mash up friends, we need a cleansing. I sure need a drink.

Yes we have seen how many of your friends have ‘mashed up’.We need to open our minds not just Follow what we get shown and taught.




posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 03:12 PM
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This thread should be referenced(if not already done) with this one, as here is a recent article that delves right into the heart of this matter, concerning Ghandi son's remarks about the overrating of holocaust:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

www.warwithoutend.co.uk...

It seems that Mr. Ghandi has proven his point by eliciting "over-response" of the likes of ADL's Foxman who calls ghandi, a bigot. It seems anyone nowdays who is against the brutal, inhumane policies of Israel are automatically labelled as such.



posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Media Zionists control
ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, UPN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Daily News, Time Magazine, Newsweek, People Magazine, US News and World Report and countless other media and Hollywood companies all have either a Zionist CEO, or a Zionist News President, or are owned by a media conglomerate which has a Zionist CEO.Have you ever noticed how Hollywood movies always seem to portray Germans and Arabs as a bigoted fanatics or terrorists? Now you know why!


For clarity, kangjia, can you give your definition of "zionist"? I know it may seem a self-explanatory term, but I'd be interested in knowing what evidence you have that there is a "zionist" agenda at the heart of the businesses that you list. Or are you simply observing that Jewish people have executive influence at the heads of some of these companies - are Jewish and "Zionist" the same thing in your dictionary?

Can you give me some references of German characters being portrayed as bigoted fanatics in Hollywood movies? Having done so, can you set out for me exactly how you feel said characterisations have influenced activity or thinking in contemporary politics?

Otherwise, you see, your argument is empty rhetoric.



The Problem is That you think everyone should Think like you.



You've given this line an awful lot in this thread - but certainly it's not a suggestion I'd make. All I'd suggest is that people use evidence to back up their arguments, treat emotive issues with sensitivity and respect, and apply logic and reasoning to their debate. You may think what you like, though, I certainly wouldn't be inclined to see your opinions as a threat.

Thanks

LW



posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by italkyoulisten
 
I AGREE THAT THRU HISTORY THAT SOME EVENTS ARE OVERPLAYED WHILE OTHERS RECIEVE LITTLE OR NO ATTENTION.THERE ARE A NUMBER OF REASONS WHY THIS HAPPENS FROM POLITICS TO JUST PLAIN STUPIDITY. AN EXAMPLE OF BEING WHEN A WHITE CHILD DISAPPEARS IN A PREDOMINATELY WHITE AREA IT MAKES THE FRONT PAGE IN THE LOCAL PAPERS, IN THE SAME AREA A LARGE NUMBER OF NONWHITE CHILDREN DISAPPEAR AND IT MIGHT BE FOUND SOME WHERE NEAR THE CLASSIFIEDS. THE REVERSE BEING TRUE IN AN AREA OF WHERE THE RACIAL DOMINANCE IS REVERSED. BUT I REGRESS.GENOCIDE IN ANY FORM CANNOT BE TOLORATED IN ANY FORM AGAINST ANY PEOPLE . REMEMBER THAT THOSE WHO FORGET THE PAST ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.



posted on Jan, 27 2008 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by GOD KING LETO2nd
 


GKL, hit your caps lock button please. All caps is quite rude.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:19 AM
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The Holocaust can't be denied.

How it was done and paid for might be easier to find than how WWII
came about.
Who funded the mechanized Germany that could only be matched
by years of American build up.

No one invested in America, hence the Depression.
Evidently overseas investment was huge.

Its over something according the "Holocaust Industry" by
author Finklestein.

And its use is over powerful as the Fink lost his job due to the
ADL and/or Beni Brith pressure.

Free speech has been wiped out quicker than we found the
A bombs to bomb Japan. Thus saving numerous lives and
they were built lock stock and barrel by Germany in Telemark,
Norway. So Hitler saved many American and Japanese lives,
if you wish to apply some sort of logic.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 04:35 AM
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Even Gandhi's Grandson knows the Holocaust is overrated.


He's basically been ostracized because he said it. The thread was even ostracized to belowtopsecret.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis


How does moving it to belowtopsecret constitute ostracization? Do you think the topic is being squashed in some way? I note that you "dedicate" your thread on BTS to italkyoulisten - as if in some way poor italkyoulisten has been martyred and persecuted on this thread - whereas in fact he has been rewarded with a large number of stars and an appreciative audience for a number of pages and a number of days. Why do you feel yourself to be so put upon? Do you not consider the preceding pages to be a healthy debate? Or does it simply irritate you that a large number of people disagree with your opinion?

Since you'be brought Arun Gandhi's views into the debate - can you back them up? What evidence is there that Israel is the "biggest player" in the culture of violence he talks about? Statistically it's simply not true, is it? What about Kenya, Darfur, or Iraq? A citation is not in itself evidence, unless it offers evidence of its own to back up its claims, surely?

LW


Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 28-1-2008 by Duzey]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 06:37 AM
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Eh.. everything after the first "-" is where you took a wrong turn. Quite silly, really.

Oh, there is a ton of evidence. Unfortunately for you, you are going to have to look it up for yourself because I'm not going to waste my time on your 1000 question game.


Deny ignorance, or embrace it!


Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 28-1-2008 by Duzey]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis
The thread was even ostracized to belowtopsecret.


Hmm. Lets deny some ignorance then....

Ostracise - v. exclude from a society or group.

Lets see.

The guys opinion isn't really "breaking altervative news" as such - its an opinion.

His views aren't a conspiracy either.

I would say that the Breaking General News forum in BTS is about the right place for it, wouldn't you? Its not been ostracised, its been included, in the right forum.

I realise that doesn't fit into how you may be trying to frame things, but its not a perfect world, is it?

[edit on 28/0108/08 by neformore]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Oh, there is a ton of evidence. Unfortunately for you, you are going to have to look it up for yourself because I'm not going to waste my time on your 1000 question game.



I'd be delighted if you wasted your time on a permanent basis elsewhere, trust me. However, I'm contending here that Israel is not the "biggest player" in a culture of violence. There's no question that Israel has played its part, but statistically it's not in the same league as many other countries waging war on their neighbours or their own. To suggest otherwise is to have a completely blinkered view of recent history.

Since 2005 there have been fewer than 2,000 deaths in Israel and Palestine as a result of the ongoing conflict. Since 2003 at least 200,000 people (and possibly as many as twice that figure) have died as a result of the conflict in Sudan. There's the research you requested - perhaps you could examine it and counter it with some argument of real substance, rather than indulging yourself with a supposed position of a long-suffering academic martyrdom.

The OP, many days ago, argued that awareness of genocides outside the holocaust was being consistently undermined by focus on Jewish suffering. Aren't you (and Ghandi's grandson) doing the same thing from the opposite end of the argument - attaching too much importance to the suffering inflicted on Palestine by Israel - "overrating" it, if you will - when there is suffering on an altogether more horrendous scale being inflicted elsewhere in the world?

LW



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by italkyoulisten

And the Holocaust was in no way the worst event in history. In fact, at the same time, the atrocities committed by the Japanese in Asia were in my opinion much worse than the events of the Holocaust. And what is weird is that nobody's ever heard of the atrocities in Asia! I mean, it doesn't even have a name for god's sake. So I am gonna refer to it as the AiA. I mean Emperor Hirohito's name is almost unheard of compared to Hitler, but he oversaw the barbaric raping and murdering of an entire continent!

The Japanese raped and pillaged their way through China, killing off whole villages, as they believed other peoples to be equivalent to animals. Almost all women were raped, young and old. Hundreds of thousands (I think, I'm not sure about that number) Korean women were kidnapped and forced into sex slavery at "Service Stations" for Japanese soldiers. They killed so many people that Japanese soldiers began to describe it as "monotonous" and "boring" and began to make games out of killing people. The epitome of the brutality was seen during the Nanjing Massacre, in which 300,000 civilians were sadistically killed. Women were raped repeatedly and were subject to having objects thrust up their vaginas, including beer bottles, sticks, and even grenades. They would make amulets out of the pubic hair of virgins that they raped because they believed it would bring good fortune. The killing for the soldiers were too boring so they decided to make it fun by torturing their victims. One of the "fun" methods was to bury you halfway in the ground and let dogs tear you apart while you are helpless. Another is forcing people onto the roof of a building and then setting it on fire. I mean if you want to know more just look it up, basically it was ridiculous. Estimates of Chinese civilian deaths go up to 20 million! The worst is not the number of killed but in the way they met their deaths, as they were all made to suffer.



Your reference to the Nanking massacre by the Japanese, can in no way be compared to the magnitude of the atrocities committed by the Nazis in WW2. First of all, although horrific, the death toll at the Nanking event was slightly over 200,000 lost souls including women and children. Upon basic research you can validate that in Auschwitz concentration camp alone there were over 1,700,000 people exterminated, not all of them Jews, as some were Polish political dissidents and another group was gypsies from Hungary and surrounding countries. I mention Auschwitz because this site is historically known to be the largest perpetrator of murdering innocent people. The other group massacred were homosexuals, but only to the tune of slightly over 21,000. I sit on the fence when it comes to supporting the claim that 6 million Jews were lost during WW2, but to minimize the event (Holocaust) by claiming the Japanese performed equal or greater atrocities with the China invasion is erroneous at best, as I am certain your research will uncover.

One thing is certain. Both of these occurences are a disgrace to mankind, but should not be miscontrued or diminshed because of any agenda the poster may have in citing such brash, unsubstantiated claims.

[edit on 28-1-2008 by Crakeur]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
The guys opinion isn't really "breaking altervative news" as such - its an opinion.

His views aren't a conspiracy either.


Last time I checked there was a conspiracy centered around certain Jewish people trying to take over the world or something... maybe it was Zionist Jews and a certain political movement... I think, actually, that the Holocaust is supposed to be used as a political propaganda device by that movement according to the conspiracy.

Right, no conspiracy. Check. No sillier than the fake moon landing.

It's just funny considering almost all threads in "alternative" news come from mainstream news sources, and don't have much on the surface to do with any type of conspiracy. So much for alternative news, moderator.

Unless it's about Jews... then it either gets locked or moved elsewhere.



Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 28-1-2008 by Duzey]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis
Unless it's about Jews... then it either gets locked or moved elsewhere.


said on the the 14th page of a discussion that was pretty much answered and over on the second page.

freedom of speech. sadly, that sometimes means having to listen.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
The Holocaust can't be denied.


Agreed.


Its over something according the "Holocaust Industry" by
author Finklestein.


As I expressed earlier Finklestein mentioned the subsequent exploitation of the event to elevate and shield the state of Israel and Jews from scrutiny, among other things, but not that it never happened. As he put it:


... the purpose of this industry is, in my view, ethnic aggrandizement - in particular, to deflect criticism of the State of Israel and to deflect criticism of Jews generally.
Wiki



Here is a man that was born of parents that survived two different concentration camps yet still he writes of what he believes to be a terrible wrong and is lambasted for his opinion. How can this man who would have more intimate knowledge of the Holocaust than most people in this thread write that it is being exploited for sinister gains? Why would he say this? Is he antisemitic?

More importantly in my opinion, why have some of the actual people that were in the concentration camps themselves agreed with him?

Anyone?

We also have men like professor Ze'ev Herzog from the University of Tel Aviv in Israel that wrote in his article "The Deconstructing of the Walls of Jericho" that after 70 years of archaeological research, not only is there no evidence for the Exodus and that the Jews were slaves in Egypt but that most Israelis in his field and academics already know this.

What happened to him? He was unjustifiably and systematically attacked for it.

A few colleagues from the university rose to his defense, even saying that for the most part he is correct but it didn't make much difference. Credible people from the “inside” that discover, question, or worse ANNOUNCE such things are met with immediate anger and shock for obvious reasons. Some have stated that for certain Israelis such a thing would jeopardize Israel’s claim to the land should it be proven that it is based on a myth. Could this be part of the purpose of maintaining certain myths, exaggerations or even heavy focus and media attention on historical horrors? The claim to the land? How long can the card of suffering be played when the people that were the victims have created a place that now victimize in an apartied that many Israelis, even some in government, have admitted exists?

Do I need to point out the irony in the video of the Israeli checkpoint guards forcing one of the Palestinian men in line to play his violin for them before he and his family could pass through?

Those from the “outside” who look into this or publicly question such things are simply hit with the "guilt hammer" of instant defensiveness. They are unnecessarily reminded of the horrors of human nature as experienced in those concentration camps. This is not an answer to a question but merely a deflection. If we’re lucky, threads such as these are met with a bare minimum of rational discussion but ultimately they denigrate into argumentative tennis, arrogantly sarcastic jokes, and personal high-fives on both sides. Yes, some here have made clearly offensive and obviously ignorant racist/antisemitic remarks that I have called them on but they do not outnumber those that ask or debate a legitimate question. At the same time some of those that are here to rip the OP as a monster along with anyone that does not share your view seem downright bitter and hostile. They usually end their posts with a dig.

This really helps no one.

I wouldn't say that the Holocaust is overrated but in the context of historical tragedies’ being focused on in the mainstream it is undeniably over emphasized. There are various reasons for this and the vilification of most of the Israeli scholars that question such things may indicate that they are closer to the truth. Look, Israel is not weak and struggling. It’s citizens are not shuffling around, starving with their hats in their hands and frowns on their faces. No one is going to take Israel from the Israelis, yet I feel that this is at the forefront of the consciousness of anyone that feels threatened when someone mentions anything that may question some of the actions of the nation of Israel, the western media and government that often caters to it, and the possible agenda behind the heavy focus of an admitted historical tragedy.

Relax. I say it is time for all of us to move on, and a change is long overdue.

FYI EVERYONE: The genocide we hate is playing live and in concert right now.

Where is your ticket to the show?

- Lee



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis
Last time I checked there was a conspiracy centered around certain Jewish people trying to take over the world or something... maybe it was Zionist Jews and a certain political movement... I think, actually, that the Holocaust is supposed to be used as a political propaganda device by that movement according to the conspiracy.


Its nice to know what you think, really it is


Sadly though that post wasn't about what you think, or about that conspiracy. It was about Ghandi's grandsons opinion, which is why it ended up in the General News thread



Right, no conspiracy. Check. No sillier than the fake moon landing.


Well, if he'd said "hey there's this conspiracy about jewish people trying to take over the world", I would agree that he was taking about a conspiracy, and you'd have your thread basis there and then. Sadly he didn't, did he? He did mention his views, but as I said, his views aren't a conspiracy. The reaction to his views might be.



It's just funny considering almost all threads in "alternative" news come from mainstream news sources, and don't have much on the surface to do with any type of conspiracy.


Yes but the fine posters of ATS look at some of that stuff and put two and two together and develop their own intelligent theories about the news, applying the alternative angle onto the thread. You linked back to this one, offered up a bit of sarcasm but no conspiracy angle and left it at that.



So much for alternative news, moderator.


So much for a conspiracy post?



Unless it's about Jews... then it either gets locked or moved elsewhere.


Interesting claims. And yet this thread is still open, and your others are too...



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by lee anoma

More importantly in my opinion, why have some of the actual people that were in the concentration camps themselves agreed with him?

Anyone?



Partial quote.

Yes.

They knew of a different life that went wrong and feel the present day
effort is another pressure group manipulation.

However, survivors are few as I recall seeing arm number tattoos only
on older people. And never did talk to a survivor about such matters
however.

I can only suppose they wish to forget or know something of the
fractured theories now presented:

It is supposed that an assimilation of life else where than Jerusalem
had taken hold.

I'm happy where I am. Was the sentiment, why go back to Jerusalem.

It may be suggested that Rothschild, owner of England, had this crazy
feather in his cap to change things.

An effort on the part of the elite instituted a paid program to make
life miserable for their own kind. (The Nuremberg trials... thats what
they wanted??)

Makes no sense.

But apparently this is some of the twisted theories out there in fantasy land.
ED: Mr R possibly financed the Russian Revolution ending up with the
Czars wealth...hey go for broke next time. Crazy stuff, but its out there.

[edit on 1/28/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 1/28/2008 by TeslaandLyne]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by lee anoma
 


Thoughtful summary of this subject, and agree.

Expectation of the so called "the only democracy in the middle east" and closest US ally in the region, is high and should be, compared to the brutal dictatorships elsewhere. Regardless of the suffering of the jewish people(or any other people) in the past, Jewish state's brutal treatment of the palestinian people and the applied apartheid policies belies their own victimized past, and must stop if it is to be perceived by the rest of the world as an enlightened civilized state. It is easy to see the overrating of the holocaust in this regard. I do not see similar deviant ethnocentric behavior from the victims of other holocausts treating ethno other people this way, whether it is Armenia, China, Korea, Ukraine..

Rest of the world awaits the "casting away" of this overplayed historical crutch, and until such time the perception of its(not The) holocaust being overrated remains.

Following poll result analysis is some grist for the mill.

www.globalsecurity.org...

www.worldnetdaily.com...

[edit on 28-1-2008 by NeedToNo]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by Brawk
 


Brawk, you obviously did no research about the atrocities in asia. The Nanjing massacre was just an example of one of many, many events, of which the death tolls add up to the tens of millions. It is just the best documented. There just isn't a term to describe the mass of events that happened in Asia, unlike the Nazi's plan of exterminating non-aryan races.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 


The conspiracy part of this is, why can't we question the Holocaust? And why can't we criticize anything about Israel? Why is the Holocaust crammed down our throats so many times throughout our youth? I mean you can say that it's so that "it will never happen again", but think about all the other horrible events that you could have learned about during some of the time spent on the Holocaust. Should they be forgotten? I thought in a free world, we could ask and probe into whatever we want? The mere condemnation of criticism of a subject suggests untruth, as critique and scrutiny is the only test of truth.

rense.com...
Article on the subject of criticism of Israel^

\

[edit on 28-1-2008 by italkyoulisten]



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