Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?

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posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 12:21 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by shizzle5150


You got me partner, My tired eyes did not see nor did I realize that I used weather rather than whether besides quite frankly I suck at spelling. I also tried to point out that I was not trying to be hateful in showing that logic is is the study of the principles of valid inference and demonstration. I do know that some people could perceive it as being hateful if they feel something strongly that can't be proven by any measurable means. Obviously you chose to take it that way.


Oh don't concern yourself it was meant more in jest as I thought you'd get a kick out of it since you had got me that way lol.

As for the naughty words I may have used to describe the Atheist in MIMS post. That is just more of the same thing we have already proven is going on here. Simply put, Atheists ARE in a conspiracy to overthrow Christianity. That guy does all kinds of that sort of thing along with a number of others. MIMS suggested that the moment of silence was what we Christians are "doing to him" or the so called crap as he puts it.

Apparently such things are too big a concession to make peace with Atheists and now what we think in silence is state endorsed prayer.

This weird kind of reactionary phenomena is said to be taken as is they are offended in some way so they reject God and all religious things.

I kinda wonder if he hasn't got it backwards, that it is the Atheists rejection of God which offends HIM and what Atheists feel in the face of anything religious,,

isn't being offended,

but Convicted

- Con










[edit on 18-4-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:16 AM
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"First of all to find out what is religion we must negate what it is not. What it is not; then it is. It's like seeing what is not love. Love is not hate, love is not jealousy, love is not ambition, love is not violence. When you negate all that, the other is, which is compassion. In the same way if you negate what is not religion then you find out what is true religion; that is, what is the truly religious mind. Belief is not religion, and the authority which the churches, the organized religions assume, is not religion. In that there is all the sense of obedience, conformity, acceptance, the hierarchical approach to life. The division between the Protestant, the Catholic, the Hindu, the Moslem, that's not religion. When you negate all that, which means you are no longer a Hindu, no longer a Catholic, no longer belonging to any sectarian outlook, then your mind questions, asks what is true religion? This is free from their ritual, without their masters, without their Saviour; all that is not religion. When the mind discards that, intelligently, because it has seen that it's not religion, then it can ask what is religion. Religion is not what I think, but religion is the sense of comprehension of the totality of existence, in which there is no division between you and me. Then if there is that quality of goodness which is virtue, real virtue not the phony virtue of society, but real virtue, then the mind can go beyond and find out, through meditation, through a deep, quiet silence, if there is such a thing as reality. Therefore a religious mind is a mind that is constantly aware, sensitive, attentive, so that it goes beyond itself into a dimension where there is no time at all."
--J. Krishnamurti



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology
Apparently such things are too big a concession to make peace with Atheists and now what we think in silence is state endorsed prayer.

I am an atheist. However, I have taken it upon myself to learn what I can of the dominant religion in this nation. My understanding of prayer, and the related teachings of Jesus is thus:


Matthew 6:5-6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


With Jesus' desire being clear in this regard, that those who pray should not seek to brag that they are doing so, why would you want to impose your public moment of prayer on others? Such actions seem to flaunt a rejection of what Jesus would have you do.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by Silenceisall
 





no longer belonging to any sectarian outlook,


There is a problem here with statements such as this. Believers are instructed to " come out from amongst them and be ye seperate." This means seperate from. The word for seperated from is anti social. The other word is Sectarian. You position argues or debates from Non Sectarian. THe two positions are not compatible.
Believers are told and instructed to not take on the appearence and manners of the world surrounding them. They are to be in this world but not of this world. This means Sectarian. It does not mean Non Sectarian.

THe method and technique of this world is to promote and seduce into non sectarian. THe social creature.

By the way..for those versed in Occult principles..this also means Eastern Philosophys and diciplines. This is known among certain Believers.

Believers look to the West...not to the East. This is very important to those who know the pattern. Have you been East???

The term "True Religion " also has two meanings...one from the East and one from the West. I have been asked if I know the true religion. I tell the person asking that I know the patterns of the Religion from the West and also the patterns of the religion from the East. THey are two different religions...two different gods..two different patterns.

The other occult term that associates itself with the true religion from the East...is the "good god." This is a code or watch word for the Non sectarian god.

This stuff looks logical to many ..but the pattern is known to certain Believers in the Word. Most havent a clue. But it is known to certain of us who are trained in it.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology


That is just more of the same thing we have already proven is going on here. Simply put, Atheists ARE in a conspiracy to overthrow Christianity.

Apparently such things are too big a concession to make peace with Atheists .


[edit on 18-4-2008 by Conspiriology]
As an Atheist I have tried several times to make peace with you believers on this forum, and my posts are met with zero responses.Admit it, most of you are more interested in proving us wrong and proving yourselves right then any real discussion about the real conspiracy. I'm not picking on anyone here, I'm just saying that the only thing being passed around in this forum is vehemence,ignorance, and self-righteousness on all sides.Neither side has it exactly right, and both sides are fighting with eachother rather than the true threat.

I came to this forum because I was interested in intelligent discourse, imagine my disappointment when I found the same childish verbal slapfightng as I find on the XboxLive forums. Peple cant even stay on topic because they got bones to pick with eachother, the nerve of them!They believe in something different than I do! And they have the nerve to question my beliefe system and try to dissect it! If you can't handle it then get out of the damn forums. IF you want to talk about conspiracies, then talk about the frigging conspiracies, not about your disagreement with someone else's thoughts.


AND FOR THE LAST TIME: if you're going to refer to ATheists or Christians or whatever, use the word SOME!!!! Not all ATheists want to overthrow Christianity, and not all Christians think the world was created in 7 days! Make that very important distinction!!! Otherwise you're just a nutjob making wild claims for the shock value, and therefore not worth taking seriously.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by Gigatronix
 


Gigatronix,

I agree with the bulk of your position in your post above and have stated so in my previous posts. I dont believe that most athiests are in the buisness of Conspiring to overthrow Christianity. I believe that there is such a conspiracy ..yes..but I dont credit AThiests with such. Most athiests I find to be to much of a Individual mindset for such credit.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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How is the religious mind or the new mind to come into being? Will you have a system, a method? Through a method - a method being a system, a practice, a repetitive thing day after day? Will a method produce a new mind? …Surely, a method implies a continuity of a practice, directed along a certain line towards a certain result - which is to acquire a mechanical habit, and through that mechanical habit to realize a mind which is not mechanical....

"When you say, 'discipline', all discipline is based on a method according to a certain pattern; and the pattern promises you a result which is predetermined by a mind which has already a belief, which has already taken a position. So, will a method, in the widest or the narrowest sense of that word, bring about this new mind? If it does not, then method as habit must go completely, because it is false. …Method only conditions the mind according to the result which is desired. You have to discard all the mechanical processes of the mind. …The mind must discard all the mechanical processes of thought. So, the idea that a method, a system, a discipline, a continuity of habit will bring about this mind is not true. So, all that is to be discarded totally as being mechanical. A mind that is mechanical is a traditional mind; it cannot meet life, which is non mechanical; so, the method is to be put aside. "



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by mister.old.school

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Apparently such things are too big a concession to make peace with Atheists and now what we think in silence is state endorsed prayer.


I am an atheist. However, I have taken it upon myself to learn what I can of the dominant religion in this nation. My understanding of prayer, and the related teachings of Jesus is thus:


Matthew 6:5-6
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


With Jesus' desire being clear in this regard, that those who pray should not seek to brag that they are doing so, why would you want to impose your public moment of prayer on others? Such actions seem to flaunt a rejection of what Jesus would have you do.


This is another perfect example of how persons without the spirit can not understand scripture. Although, I do have to give you some credit for recognizing the Bible is the authority on spiritual matters.

Con was refering to moments of Silence when he said,


Apparently such things are too big a concession to make peace with Atheists and now what we think in silence is state endorsed prayer.


Notice he said what we think in silence is construed as state endorsed prayer. A moment of silence isn't even necessarily Christian. I am sure during such moments that muslins are praying to Allah. Atheists could simply think a positive thought and contribute to the "good vibes". There is no belief requirement in a moment of silence.

Now in Matthew 6:5-6 Jesus was speaking of the Pharisees who loved to make a public display of their prayers, out loud. They would wax on and on to show off their eloquence, large vocabularies and their "holy" words. Hardly similar to humble moments of silence they would go on for hours in public out loud. Actually it's quite the opposite of what Con is talking about. He said "What we think in silence" So really your point is misguided at best.

Your on the right track by reading the Bible
But you rebuke is a complete misunderstanding of what Jesus taught and what Con was referring to.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Now in Matthew 6:5-6 Jesus was speaking of the Pharisees who loved to make a public display of their prayers, out loud.

Actually, no. And it may be best for you to take a moment to review chapter six, up to verse 13, of the book of Matthew. Jesus is instructing on the appropriate way to give alms and prayer, and the context of the hypocrites (Pharisees) is as an example of how not to do it.

The "moment of silence" is a popularized "non-denominational" concession for a public moment of prayer. There would be no "moment of silence" if there was no call for public moment of prayer.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by mister.old.school
 


Oh I am familiar with the passage and you are off base by using it to reference a moment of Silence.

Jesus says specifically in verse seven "And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."

His rebuke of the Pharisees which you are misusing refers to them drawing attention to themselves. A moment of silence is personal and no babbling or attention getting is occurring.






[edit on 4/18/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 
If the moment of silence is a personal thing, and non-denominational, why does it need to be official? Why do we need time set aside for this? Everyone can take a moment of silence any time they like, and pray,reflect,ponder whatever it is people do during this moment of silence. Nobody needs anyone else to say to them"ok you've got 5 minutes before class or work to pray,meditate or otherwise think real hard" You want to pray?Then do it,just not out loud please. You want to pray with your fellow believers?Then go ahead, just don't do it right in front of the door where people have to go in and out.

The point is, a moment of silence is unneccessary. If you want to do it then do it, there's no need to (literally) make a federal case out of it.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Gigatronix
 


Oh I really haven't even though about the moment of silence issue much, Gig. I was just correcting a gross misunderstanding in what Jesus was teaching.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 

Sorry there BW,didn't mean to imply you were a proponent of that cause, I guess I should have made it a standalone post rather than reply to your post.

I would have to say though, a moment of silence seem decidedly a religious function. And if it truly is, then the whole legal battle over it and the publicity surrounding it certainly falls into the attention getting philosophy. I just can't imagine an Atheist requesting a moment of silence for anything other than to pay respect to the dead after some tragedy. Nor can I imagine any other group of people asking for a moment of silence,except the religious. I don't have a problem with any believer who wnats to make a prayer circle before they start class or start a days work. But lobbying for it and trying to make it a part of everyones day is absurd, and in my opinion, a conspiracy in itself.

One other thing. I find this notion that a non-believer is incapable of understanding the word of god to be ridiculous. It's words in a book. Believing in God does not give you x-ray glasses that allow you to see hidden meanings in teh scriptures.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" I don't need to believe in God to understand this moral lesson. And believe me I do understand it and appreciate it. but if what you say were true, my un-belief would blind me from understanding it. Or is it only the things we don't agree with that we are ignorant to? I just find the whole thing amusing, that if I was filled with the Holy Spirit I could make sense of "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". Whereas if I didn't have the holy spirit, it would sound exactly like it does,like a bunch of nonsense. This whole prerequisite of having the holy spirit or God in me to undestand the Bible sounds like a convenient excuse to rationalize away the fact that some of the scriptures are based on superstition,fear,and ignorance. If an Atheist produces a proverb that suggests something contrary to what a believer is trying to assert, we're told we can't possibly understand the true meaning and we have a lot nerve trying to quote it erroneously. I mean c'mon, the thing is translated in English, if we can't assume that it says what it means and means what it says, how would anyone become a Christian? You're not borna Christian, you're educated to be one. And the prime textbook is the Bible, if understading the Bible is a major step to become religious, but you can't understand it unless you're religious... well you get the idea here.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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I think there is no conspiracy. Atheists are getting more courage to speak out in public about our opinions. I think religious people are afraid and unsecure because of developing of science and atheists are speaking out their opinions freely. I think many belivers are horrified deep in their heart. They perhaps know that all those thousands of sects and religions can't be right. Am I wrong?

They can stand more those people who belive in somekind of god but have the details all wrong. But atheist, they are telling you that its all old fairytales, not more than beliving to Santa Claus, cheating yourselves.

I feel that my belives are house builded on solid rock. Hundreds of years and thousands and thousands of hardworking scientist are my witnesses from 1+1=2 to proof of vacuum energy, ~14 billion years from Big Bang and from first living cell unbroken chain to every living creature today. There's holes in it because everything is not explained and all never be. I accept uncertainties and some details may be wrong and I am every day ready to change my mind if proved wrong. All scientists are working to find holes and weak spots and making them stand up for all critics.

And what religions have? Old books, or newer ones, and all sects quarreling against each others who has The Truth and tv-evangelistas begging money in name of God.

It's not conspiracy, many fundamental religious people are just crying WOLF!, because they are horrified about us and they fear that their house of sand will collapse in the light of science.

Sorry my awful english



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by HoHoFoo


I think there is no conspiracy. Atheists are getting more courage to speak out in public about our opinions. I think religious people are afraid and unsecure because of developing of science and atheists are speaking out their opinions freely. I think many belivers are horrified deep in their heart. They perhaps know that all those thousands of sects and religions can't be right. Am I wrong?


Yes you are wrong but that has never stopped Atheists.



But atheist, they are telling you that its all old fairytales, not more than beliving to Santa Claus, .


*Yawn*



I feel that my belives are house builded on solid rock. Hundreds of years and thousands and thousands of hardworking scientist are my witnesses from 1+1=2 to proof of vacuum energy, ~14 billion years from Big Bang and from first living cell unbroken chain to every living creature today. There's holes in it because everything is not explained and all never be. I accept uncertainties and some details may be wrong and I am every day ready to change my mind if proved wrong. All scientists are working to find holes and weak spots and making them stand up for all critics.


On the contrary, Science has become a perversion of Atheist ideology and Atheist Religion whose God is Satan.

How's that for being Blunt and upfront about it.



There's holes in it because everything is not explained and all never be. I accept uncertainties and some details may be wrong and I am every day ready to change my mind if proved wrong. All scientists are working to find holes and weak spots and making them stand up for all



I see this same statement said a lot lately by Atheists, and when ever I see patterns in their discourse, I look for the spin,.

First are YOU a Scientist? Do you have any Degee in Science? If not then please refrain from speaking as if you were the spokesman of same.

This is what is the problem " I accept uncertainties and some details may be wrong and I am every day ready to change my mind if proved wrong."

Take evolution for instance, their is a Science that has been debunked so many times for fraud and manufactured junk evidence it isn't funny. In fact it is deplorable. Do they admit to being wrong?

In the face of prosecution but do we have to go that far to get them to admit it? Then after they do, what happens to Science being taught about that fraud? Not a damn thing, they go on teaching it like nothing happened

Here I see the spin again


It's not conspiracy, many fundamental religious people are just crying WOLF!, because they are horrified about us and they fear that their house of sand will collapse in the light of science.



Who's afraid of the big bad wolf

Not I atheist

Not I

- Con



[edit on 18-4-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 
If the moment of silence is a personal thing, and non-denominational, why does it need to be official? Why do we need time set aside for this? Everyone can take a moment of silence any time they like, and pray,reflect,ponder whatever it is people do during this moment of silence. Nobody needs anyone else to say to them"ok you've got 5 minutes before class or work to pray,meditate or otherwise think real hard" You want to pray?Then do it,just not out loud please. You want to pray with your fellow believers?Then go ahead, just don't do it right in front of the door where people have to go in and out.

The point is, a moment of silence is unneccessary. If you want to do it then do it, there's no need to (literally) make a federal case out of it.



The point IS that it was already established and it wasn't a lot to ask and it was nice. The ONLY reason they went and took it away is because they are Atheists and being pre-occupied with that sort of thing IS all they have to do with there lives. When you go to any country where a religion makes up most of the population you expect to see things reminding them of it. Or when in Rome. Well I do anyway.

It was NIT Picky crap and I would think they had better things to do

Apparently not.

Their is more to this phenomena than meets the eye but to tell you about something that looks like it does but can't be proven that it is won't work by the method of proof called Scientific.

That doesn't mean Jack to me.

- Con



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology

On the contrary, Science has become a perversion of Atheist ideology and Atheist Religion whose God is Satan.

Con, you're a good guy, I appreciate your dedication to your faith,but c'mon man this quote is just hysterical. Do you really believe science has become an instrument of Satan? Thats what the above quote implies. So if science comes out with a car that runs on garbage,doesn't pollute, and get 60 mpg, it's Satans work?If science creates a cure for cancer it's evil? Surely you don't think that way. I don't find the idea that all scientists are Atheists and are twisting their findings to refute God to be at all probable. Atheists may use science as ammunition to argue with believers, but it hardly makes science itself part of the problem. If you really think science is a perversion, and an instrument of Atheists agenda to overthrow your faith, then try living without it for a while. Try living without any technology, any medicine, and machined tools, anything that science has provided us. I'm sure it won't take you long to concede that science has done more good than bad, and it has provided for you and I regardless of our respective belief systems. Science is not prejudiced, men are.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix


One other thing. I find this notion that a non-believer is incapable of understanding the word of god to be ridiculous. It's words in a book. Believing in God does not give you x-ray glasses that allow you to see hidden meanings in teh scriptures.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" I don't need to believe in God to understand this moral lesson. And believe me I do understand it and appreciate it. but if what you say were true, my un-belief would blind me from understanding it.


You understand that? Good, but you fail to understand 2 Tim2:8 or John 3:16 Or many other verses. Why is that? Why is it that the Atheist has a problem telling kids Santa isn't real and he believes it but asks about God and you say he isn't real either. Then he asks well why do so many adults say he is but believe santa is not? Why is it Always GOD that the adults with College degree and Jobs, money just like you, why is it they cannot make the distinction between those two things? Do they all believe in something they all know isn't real but are in some vast conspiracy to be controled like stepford subjects giving thier time and money while hypnotized in some trance.

Or is it like Dawkins suggests some memplex brain virus that impedes our understanding of facts.

Did they invent a God that is so hard to follow and why then didn't they invent one easy to deal with?

These are questions you have to ask yourself and questions we have already been givin answers.

God IS


- Con






[edit on 18-4-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix



On the contrary, Science has become a perversion of Atheist ideology and Atheist Religion whose God is Satan. - con

Con, you're a good guy, I appreciate your dedication to your faith,but c'mon man this quote is just hysterical. Do you really believe science has become an instrument of Satan?


Gig,, between God and Satan which one is easier to explain? Which one, knowing the biblical descriptions given, is easier to prove?

One only needs look in the News Papers to see that. Understand if I believe the teachings of Jesus and YOU say you think it is funny that we talk about "special" understanding of scripture,

this would be where your understanding ends

and mine begins

- Con



[edit on 18-4-2008 by Conspiriology]





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