Originally posted by NewWorldOver

Originally posted by Clearskies
Are you an atheist?
If so, you are proving the op's point.

It's funny because at the beginning of this thread several atheists came forward and said they 'hope' there is a conspiracy to overthrow religion...

Now seriously, I pointed this out. Many times. And what did the atheists say? "That doesn't mean anything."

Whatever you say. I acknowledge that there are extremist Muslims and Christians but the Atheist cannot acknowledge the aggression of his own brothers.

I don't know what you are either, what I have always noticed about you is you pick up on things that many have missed and it has always impressed me. Example: the Atheists that said they hoped their was a Conspiracy.

I remember saying somwhere in here that if ther was ever a time to start one, they seem to have an army of people just salavating to join.

I enjoy reading your posts especially nice to see clear objectivity amid such polarised concerns.

- Con

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Hell shouldn't be a concern unless you believe it is possible...

I disagree. Even though I do not believe in Hell, their intention was still cruel and their purpose was without doubt harmful. It doesn't matter the exact words which were said, I believe the intention is the most important. (For newcomers, refer to my earlier post).

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
One look at countries with official atheist positions debunks that lie.

Once again, politics.

Who claims that this country is "officially Atheist"? The president of the country? A small portion of the government? Or maybe it was just some government official that said those words and the media repeated them and made a big deal out of it?

Regardless of what the country is officially labeled as, the fact remains the same: the people of that country are just brought up being taught whatever their parents believe in.

Most people don't have a intentions to believe in something evil or unjust. That's just not natural human behavior. People normally want to believe in whatever seems the most plausibly and morally correct so that they can feel good about themselves. Whatever belief people have chosen is because it was presented to them as the most proper choice.

So you can't just say an entire country is evil because some people label it as "officially Atheist" or because they are merely acting as normal human beings, believing in what path appears to be the most morally appropriate.

[edit on 30-3-2008 by morgul]

And if anyone wants to up the ante in the area of how aggressive they want to sound, I'm willing to see your bet and raise.

Or do you want to check right where you are?

Originally posted by Clearskies

Originally posted by dk3000
A conspiracy of atheists to over-throw Christianity?

God, I hope so. The reason for my hope is that many Christians are so misled by their ministers and such....Poof!

Are you an atheist?
If so, you are proving the op's point.

While he may be proving the OP's point, he DOES make a GOOD point about many Christian leaders who are Charlatans and manipulate many into giving money for a political outcome which is all about war.

I give you Texas Pastor John Hagee for an example. This was one of my favorite Pastors and one I had corresponded with on many occasions. Something happened to that guy though, and he isn't right trying to force his belief that a pre-emptive strike on Iran is not only in our best interests but that God told him to do so. As you know, I am a pretty outspoken Christian, and I had written as many of his congregation in a mass regular mail as I could afford stamps for. Then he came out and started saying out right weird stuff. The guy is losing it and he has lots of people that adore him. I know, I was one of them but I never lost my center.

He got cozy with Bush and that sort of cinched it for me. I was very happy to see however that almost all the letters I sent had come back with very similar thoughts and concerns over his gargantuan ego.

He had become such a revalationist that it looks to me like, he is trying to make that become a Hagee fulfilled prophesy.

- Con

Originally posted by morgul

Yes, I am aware that the Atheists debaters are acting in the same manner and so I encourage everyone, on both sides of the debate alike, to please maintain civility. Getting angry isn't going to make you any more convincing.

[edit on 30-3-2008 by morgul]

I never said I was angry, I said your argument is with atheists. Christians aren't selling books encouraging anger Atheists are. I can't tell you how confusing that is to me seeing fonts on a screen is all they are to me. The meaning they have I put there. If you wanted to know if I am mad just ask. I agree with many points made here by several of "the opposition" and try to be objective as I can.

Everyone boils at different degrees guy,, and if I didn't know better I would say you are starting to simmer so simmer down ok. I am merely giving my opinion and not insulting you.

- Con

Honestly this is getting very old since some new people join the thread and haven't read it through, the same questions are being answered over and over again. Can we ask the newcomers to the thread to read from the beginning so that new questions can be answered rather than re-re-re-reviewing the same old thing?

Not playing Mod here, but as far as hatred being spewed within these threads, I see it from all the sides. I'm not accusing any one person here, but this is a heated subject and and a touchy one, at best. I think most of the anger comes from having to rehash the same things over and over again...and it becomes tiresome. There comes a time when everyone is tired of having to republish everything written. I even get tired of reading it.


Thank you for allowing me my two cents worth.

I_R

Originally posted by Conspiriology
I never said I was angry, I said your argument is with atheists. Christians aren't selling books encouraging anger Atheists are.

To this day I have not yet seen the book "Be Angry" or any book that encourages you to be angry and deliberately wants you to sit there and read his book so that you can become angry. I think anyone that writes that book probably has mental issues.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Everyone boils at different degrees guy,, and if I didn't know better I would say you are starting to simmer so simmer down ok. I am merely giving my opinion and not insulting you.

- Con

Nope, not yet .

The last paragraph in my post was aimed at everyone. That's why I said that I encourage debaters on both sides to maintain their civility. If I were to direct that towards you I would've specifically said so.

As for your last sentence, I agree, and I said almost the same thing in my very first post in this thread. Nothing I am saying is to be taken personally or offensively. If anyone does take it like so, then logically there is nothing I can do about it.

as always, we're ridiculously off topic

as i've said before, if there's a conspiracy you have to prove, first and foremost that there is an organizational structure or at least a large group of atheists that are working together

this has yet to be proven by anyone.

I feel that Christianity as a religion has become little more than large "group think" and atheism has risen as counter "group think".

There is an enormous Christian element which encourages single thinking as the way back to Jesus and his teachings- yet they congregate and continue to hold "group think" ideas. I see this as the Do as I say, not as I do scenario and the excuse is we are not as good as Christ and we never will be- yet Christ is the only way into the kingdom and the only path to God.

Atheism rose out of a need to understand the contradictions and when offered because it says so in the Bible- this was not good enough.

Over time atheism's throwing the baby out with the bath water has transmogrified into a non-belief in God which has Christianities motives running over-time to "save" them. Also, atheism as it matured into its current form, simply removed the one fact and attraction and point of power which is God- to this there is no defense.

Christianity pushes their agenda by taking atheism as a personal affront to their belief in what is ultimately right and when pressed- the ultimate authority/responsibility is laid at the feet of a supreme deity who is never home.

Atheism is about dealing in the present time with whats available to the 5 senses- all of which can be proven and logic applied.

Christianity is an affront to atheism and extreme think groups on both sides are confusing the real issues which have people interested in gathering in the first place.

Christianity has historical behavior that is bloody and atrocious and proves the point of atheism without atheism needing to do much except defend itself when being attacked by religious extreme think groups.

Neither groups has the answers but they think they do. When this occurs all one need to who actually has information which neither group possesses is to offer a suggestion of nearly any kind then sit back and watch both attack each other with mis-information mass murder in a pool of confusion- eventually all that will be left is the small group who has the information- they did not have to get their hands dirty with murder/genocide.

Group think leads to protests of propaganda disguised as art such as movies like The Last Temptation of Christ or the Da Vinci Code. Which is just a movie.

I do not however- see atheists grouping together to boycott christian films such as the Omega Code or the Left Behind series. This is because atheist know that Christian artists make crappy movies and destroy the credibility of their own content! This was just a simple example of a larger picture.

If I made a point please let me know. If is just rambling gibberish let me know that as well.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
as always, we're ridiculously off topic

as i've said before, if there's a conspiracy you have to prove, first and foremost that there is an organizational structure or at least a large group of atheists that are working together

this has yet to be proven by anyone.

Bud, you've been slinging this same old hash this entire thread.

For the fiftieth time, there are multiple examples of atheists agreeing to the idea of overthrowing religion on the first page .

You spent how many pages denying that such comments were made? You then spent how many pages denying that such comments infer a conspiracy?

You've made your point. You don't want to acknowledge the speculation of religious posters and you refuse to acknowledge the open statements made by fellow atheists .

When offered examples of atheist organizations that want religion gone : you toss them aside and say it doesn't count.

Again, like excitable_boy, you have been wasting our time and everyone elses by changing the goal posts like bigwhammy and AshleyD have been pointing out. Give it up.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by NewWorldOver]