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Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?

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posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


...actually, it wasn't
that's historically unsupported. the only place that mentions it is the bible...

the reason they have no temple is because they got a bit rebellious, so the romans tore their temple down.

and it's not punishment and warfare
it's outright genocide
ethnic cleansing and mass rape

and the new testament isn't all peachy either...
just look at the "peaceful" way you're to treat your woman as nothing more than an animal to serve you

but back to the point
where's the damn conspiracy? i've yet to see it.




posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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Riley has it right. He may not want to come out and say a group, but Native Americans were slaughtered in the name of Christianity. "Missionaries" came over here (yes missionaries) to SAVE the savages. Savages? By making them savages to the general population, by considering them less than human, it made them easy to kill and kill off.

Real men with honor, integrity and character, lying wait in the woods for Native American men to go hunting in parties. When they were out of range, these moral men would kill all the women and children in the camp. Some of the women were surely raped.

Proud times for the white people! 90% of the Native population was killed off as a direct result of white people......for Jesus. Where were the Christians when blacks were treated so horribly? When lynchings happened regular and with no one being brought to justice, where were the Christians? Where were they? They were all over the place, some were tying nooses. What religion were the members of the KKK? I'll give you a hint: they weren't Jewish.

What religion were most of the parents that didn't want black children going to the same schools as their children? And this wasn't a long time
ago.....lynchings were legal in the 1940s. Fine Christian, non-savages, were calling them all 'n-word's and telling them go back to Africa.

You rag on Atheists? You have a lot of nerve!



[edit on 24-3-2008 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by riley
reply to post by NewWorldOver
 


Oh I get it. the guys in the crusades just said they were christians.. they weren't 'true' christians so it doesn't count..


OK Joe Stalin and Chairman Mao just said they were atheists... they weren't 'true' atheists so it doesn't count...


turn about is fairplay.



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Riley has it right. He may not want to come out and say a group, but Native Americans were slaughtered in the name of Christianity. "Missionaries" came over here (yes missionaries) to SAVE the savages. Savages?


Heh, again, I think you should stop trying to rewrite history.

I live in an area that is rich with Native American and Missionary history -
The real violence towards Native Americans came from the United States Army, and other tribes.

For you to say that it was Christianity that killed Natives is pretty disgusting. You have no clue if that's historically correct, and I happen to know for a fact that it's the complete opposite situation. My ancestors were constantly fighting off Blackfeet who outnumbered us and were bloodthirsty - it is the Christians who came and put a stop to that.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by NewWorldOver]



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
...what about that whole "age of religious wars"?
that wasn't the catholics killing people in the name of jesus, that was catholics and protestants killing each other in the name of jesus


Again, rewriting history.


Catholics and protestants 'kill eachother' because the Catholic church highjacked Christianity and became a state power.

The whole feud between Christian sects is about the Catholic church and it's roman origins. The Catholic church is a government and political power - it has started numerous wars with all kinds of people including fellow Christians.

None of this has anything at all to do with Jesus.



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by Excitable_Boy
 


Post some backup info on that, please.

Also, my Grandaddy was clan in West Georgia and the main thing they took care of was wife-beaters and child molesters! They would also tar and feather them.
My Grandaddy was a farmer and he would give away produce to poor black families.
Not ALL clan was proud, white supremacists.



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by riley
reply to post by NewWorldOver
 


Oh I get it. the guys in the crusades just said they were christians.. they weren't 'true' christians so it doesn't count..


OK Joe Stalin and Chairman Mao just said they were atheists... they weren't 'true' atheists so it doesn't count...


turn about is fairplay.

Nice try. They were killing for their states; communism.. not atheism:


Communism

1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2. (often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
3. (initial capital letter) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
4. communalism.
dictionary.reference.com...



Atheism

1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
dictionary.reference.com...


FACT is they never killed in the name of athiesm but their certainly have been millions of people killed in the name of a christian god.

..of which Hitler also claimed to be working on behalf of. Given the Catholic church formally supported the Nazi party I don't think it's a good idea that you use WW2 to support your position.



nobeliefs.com...
The Concordat between the Vatican and the Nazis

Cardinal Secretary of State, Eugenio Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII) signs the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican at a formal ceremony in Rome on 20 July 1933. Nazi Vice-Chancellor Franz von Papen sits at the left, Pacelli in the middle, and the Rudolf Buttmann sits at the right.

The Concordat effectively legitimized Hitler and the Nazi government to the eyes of Catholicism, Christianity, and the world.


BTW. Catholics ARE christians.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by riley]



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by riley
Nice try. They were killing for their states; communism.. not atheism:


Makes sense. Can't you also agree that the Catholic Inquisition was killing for the Roman Vatican (I.E. the state) and not for Jesus????

Jesus does not ask for war in his name. The Vatican does. The Roman Catholic state did.... yet you atheists blame Christianity and Jesus... you are blaming a religion for what the state did. And how is this different from tying communist genocide to atheism? It's not. So stop the double standards.



BTW. Catholics ARE christians.


I find it interesting that atheists believe they can decipher religious sects with any kind of authority.

No, Catholics are not Christians in the sense that they do not listen to Christ. They listen to the Pope.


There is really no way to get this through to atheists. People listen to Muslim extremists instead of Muslims, likewise they let the Roman Church speak for Christianity.



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Maya432
Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?

God I hope so. (no Pun intended)

Religion is a prison. a prison for your soul.
A reason to WAR
A way to separate us/divide us.
Pit us againts each other.
A reason to kill
to control with fear
I`m sorry if I`m stomping on your believes.
its not your fault ...I was fooled too.
and so were/are billions of others.

the only way for the people of earth to live as one is to
DROP all the RELIGIOUS B.S.

time for us to grow out of the farytale...and realize
there is no SANTA.

I know I am being very harsh but the ones who control the
main religions are the same ones who keep
killing our world with war after war mass killings after mass killings
through out all of known history..

how much longer do we have to keep behaving like children.
wake up world .

religion and the whole concept of religion is an evil mechanism .

never have I seen such a thing that is capable of so much death and suffering then that of religion.

ps. having said all that,
I believe in god
and I believe that we are all god.
and we are all one .





[edit on 15-1-2008 by Maya432]



everyone has a religion. if your atheist that is your religion. religion is a set of rules and fundamental morals that you hold in high regard that guides the actions and beliefs of your life, if your atheist then you make yourself a God serving yourself. If you believe in Christianity then you sacrifice yourself and serve a higher being ((God)) or Creator. in a nutshell religion is what you believe about God, if you don't then you will assign rules and morals a code of conduct based on your personal convictions, In which can be enforced by any body of government that willingly takes on these values. All humans have the ability to be evil or good its which side we choose that defines us.


Keeper

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Keeper of Kheb]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 06:14 AM
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reply to post by NewWorldOver
 




Heh, again, I think you should stop trying to rewrite history.

I live in an area that is rich with Native American and Missionary history -
The real violence towards Native Americans came from the United States Army, and other tribes.

For you to say that it was Christianity that killed Natives is pretty disgusting. You have no clue if that's historically correct


Not rewriting history...just stating it! There's plenty of Native Americans where I live too. It wasn't just the armies of the US that killed the native peoples.....it started when the French came over here WAY BEFORE there was a United States and way before there was a US Army. Christopher Columbus and his men shot and killed native peoples like they were deer.

Don't tell me to read history. Stop living in denial. History books don't tell the truth about what happened to Native Americans.........

Read history books? That is one of the funniest things someone on ATS has ever said!!



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by NewWorldOver
Again, rewriting history.



i was just about to say the same thing to you



Catholics and protestants 'kill eachother' because the Catholic church highjacked Christianity and became a state power.


...there was nothing for them to hijack because they were the only ones there



The whole feud between Christian sects is about the Catholic church and it's roman origins. The Catholic church is a government and political power - it has started numerous wars with all kinds of people including fellow Christians.


...actually, the protestants were the ones that attacked the catholics first



None of this has anything at all to do with Jesus.


and again, you ignored my other points
english protestants versus english protestants in the english civil war.
that was purely religious.

and they did have to do with jesus
both sides rallied under the cry of "we're the true followers of jesus"

but it's quite obvious what your bias is here
you don't even acknowledge the biggest sect of christianity as christian, so you've got that whole "anti-catholic" thing going.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by NewWorldOver

Originally posted by riley
Nice try. They were killing for their states; communism.. not atheism:


Makes sense. Can't you also agree that the Catholic Inquisition was killing for the Roman Vatican (I.E. the state) and not for Jesus????


...the vatican was a state
...the vatican was also a religion

but it was killing in the name of the religion, not in the name of the state. it was killing people because of their religious beliefs



Jesus does not ask for war in his name.


yet the bible sure as hell asks for war in the name of god
confusing, ain't it?



The Vatican does. The Roman Catholic state did.... yet you atheists blame Christianity and Jesus... you are blaming a religion for what the state did. And how is this different from tying communist genocide to atheism? It's not. So stop the double standards.


actually, it is
see, one was in the name of god
the other was in the name of communism

there's quite the difference
the rallying cry was "god" for one and "communism/the worker/etc" in the other

...i'm starting to repeat myself.





BTW. Catholics ARE christians.


I find it interesting that atheists believe they can decipher religious sects with any kind of authority.


and i find it quite interesting that christians take such a condescending attitude towards atheists as if we somehow can't understand religious differences because we don't have a religion.


No, Catholics are not Christians in the sense that they do not listen to Christ. They listen to the Pope.


they listen to the pope because they believe jesus bestowed upon pete the authority to speak on his behalf

the whole "what's bound by you on earth is bound by you in heaven" thing that he said kind of lends them some credibility.



There is really no way to get this through to atheists. People listen to Muslim extremists instead of Muslims, likewise they let the Roman Church speak for Christianity.


well, it is christian
and it's the biggest christian sect
and do we want to get into the protestant sects?
fred phelps sure as hell isn't a catholic
the abortion clinic bombers weren't catholics
the kkk hates catholics and loves jesus

hmmm



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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everyone has a religion. if your atheist that is your religion. religion is a set of rules and fundamental morals that you hold in high regard that guides the actions and beliefs of your life, if your atheist then you make yourself a God serving yourself.

Keeper

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Keeper of Kheb] I'm sorry but this is wrong. Atheism is not a religion, nor is being an Atheist proclaiming yourself a God. I really don't know where people come up with this stuff sometimes. Because I am an Aheist, it means I don't believe in God or any gods, period. If you don't understand Atheism, that's fine, I wouldn't expect you to research something you have no interest in. But if you don't understand it it, don't talk about it, because misconception only hurts your own argument and strengthens mine.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Not rewriting history...just stating it!


Yeah... stating it wrongly. Christians did not murder Native Americans for Jesus. Period.


Christopher Columbus and his men shot and killed native peoples like they were deer.

Is that so? I'm sure such behavior is expressly against Christ's teaching... not very Christian. Yet you claim Christians massacred Natives in this manner for Jesus? Hmm.



Read history books? That is one of the funniest things someone on ATS has ever said!!


I'm not surprised you find the idea of self-education to be humorous.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i was just about to say the same thing to you


Than say it. I look forward to any examples you can provide where I skew history to promote an ideology in the same manner that you folks have.



...there was nothing for them to hijack because they were the only ones there


What are you talking about? Romans were murdering Christians for sport for hundreds of years before they made Christianity a state power - the Vatican.

Nothing to highjack? I guess all the Christians they were murdering didn't exist?

Next.



...actually, the protestants were the ones that attacked the catholics first


Is that so? I suppose you want to ignore that the Catholic church was murdering and imprisoning people for hundreds of years eh?



both sides rallied under the cry of "we're the true followers of jesus"


So what? Do you understand how many terrorists do the exact same thing for Allah?

Do you consider terrorists the representatives of Islam?
Do you consider religious extremists the representatives of Christianity?

If so: you're clueless.



but it's quite obvious what your bias is here
you don't even acknowledge the biggest sect of christianity as christian, so you've got that whole "anti-catholic" thing going.


'Anti-catholic'? Hardly. You may not have any desire to cope with history or the sentiment of the Christian sects, but the fact remains: the Vatican is not Christianity.

Carry on.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 06:26 AM
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reply to post by NewWorldOver
 




Read history books? That is one of the funniest things someone on ATS has ever said!!

I'm not surprised you find the idea of self-education to be humorous.


Self education? I read plenty NWO. As most of us on ATS know, generally, history books do not tell the true story. They tell the politically correct story. They tell what the country that the book came from want the masses to believe.

Are you honestly this naive?



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 09:02 AM
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apparently being ignorant and ignoring the points that dismantle your argument are enough to garner 3 stars now...
who knew?


Originally posted by NewWorldOver
Than say it. I look forward to any examples you can provide where I skew history to promote an ideology in the same manner that you folks have.


well, the age of religious wars, for one thing
you skewed it as a "evil vatican vs good protestants who are the real christians" age
...there was plenty of protestant on protestant action going on at the time.

and that whole "the catholic church isn't christian" thing, but i'll address that later.



What are you talking about? Romans were murdering Christians for sport for hundreds of years before they made Christianity a state power - the Vatican.

Nothing to highjack? I guess all the Christians they were murdering didn't exist?


...the christians being murdered were catholics
like st. peter, the first pope
see, you're trying to fuse the roman state with the catholic church, something that only happened circa 300




Is that so? I suppose you want to ignore that the Catholic church was murdering and imprisoning people for hundreds of years eh?


...and yet that has nothing to do with the protestants starting the age of religious wars




So what? Do you understand how many terrorists do the exact same thing for Allah?

Do you consider terrorists the representatives of Islam?
Do you consider religious extremists the representatives of Christianity?

If so: you're clueless.


i never said religious extremists were the only representatives of christianity and you're deflecting with this answer
the age of religious wars was something the masses got behind, not just extremists. this was the common man, not chris crusade



'Anti-catholic'? Hardly. You may not have any desire to cope with history or the sentiment of the Christian sects, but the fact remains: the Vatican is not Christianity.


the vatican may not be all of christianity, but it sure as hell is part of it.

in fact, the vatican and the orthodox church are the only modern churches that have any real connection to the original form of christianity, which was most likely not based on biblical literalism, as they really didn't have a canon to work from...

but i just love it when christians say that other christians aren't christians and then state that it's a fact.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
As most of us on ATS know, generally, history books do not tell the true story. They tell the politically correct story.


That's exactly right. The Catholic church highjacked Christianity after murdering Christians en masse. You aren't going to read this in history books, because it was a political coup.

Obviouly, you did not have a grasp of true history in this regard. You stand corrected, yet you continue to huff and haw and post lol-smileys. Whatever suits you...


Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
apparently being ignorant and ignoring the points that dismantle your argument are enough to garner 3 stars now...
who knew?


Your posts are no longer worth replying to. You have baited countless religious threads with this kind of attitude. Instead of resorting to calling people ignorant and claiming non-existant victories:

Stop getting hung up on how many stars my posts get and consider that you actually failed to offer a single counter-point to the historical facts that I had to come in here and re-establish...



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by NewWorldOver
 




Obviouly, you did not have a grasp of true history in this regard. You stand corrected, yet you continue to huff and haw and post lol-smileys. Whatever suits you...




I do not stand corrected. I have a fine grasp on history. I did not realize that you were a history professor and this was a class.

Whatever suits me? Thank you so much for you approval. I did not realize I needed it!


I put the lol-smiley there because it suited me!

[edit on 27-3-2008 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by NewWorldOver
 


i offered many counterpoints that you ignored (eg, my english civil war point and the many times i've corrected your incorrect view of history and entirely skewed views on the catholic church)
and your high and mighty attitude is not needed. i was injecting comedy, it helps me soldier on in the face of willful ignorance



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