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Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?

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posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by sizzle
reply to post by riley
 


Hi riley!
I stated in my post, that I would be looking for that link to support my statement. Am doing so now.

Now find an actual scientific source. Scientists aren't meant to start with an answer then pick and choose evidence to back it up.. instead they see what answer the evidence points to. Thats site ignores most of it to fit. You said you had studies etc. Where is this new york times article you were talking about? The one you posted about the 'chances' of evolution is also based on misconceptions. Seems like some guy just pulled numbers out of the air while ignoring large chunks of science.
I am sure there's something to rebuke that and if you would like you can go to the origins forum and repost it I will find it as then it wil be ontopic.. I'm not going to risk arguing the point further here however.

And it was thanks to you, that we have decided to expand this discussion to widen our field of discussion here. It was you who opened my eyes to the need to do that. So just be patient, and I will see if I can find that link. Hope you are having a great day. [

Blaming me now?

I meant including things relevent to the topic.. [which I did] ..you are just attacking TOE by posting creationalist propoganda which has nothing to do with the OP.. and are still ignoring calls to prove that atheists [including me] are conspiring against christianity.

Which atheists are you talking about specifically? What have we been doing to overthrow christianity? If you can't prove your claims it's just slander imo.. which is kind of ironic now that you're bashing TOE.


Originally posted by sizzle
Would also like to add that since the discovery of DNA in recent years, further studies and testing has pretty much proven that evolution would be an impossibility, because it would cause horrible mutations. But yet, so many ppl still cling to the hope that they belong to the monkey family.



Humans share a common ancestor with chimpanzees, not monkeys. DNA replication results in genetic mutation every once in a while, through natural selection the beneficial mutations create new and stronger species. I don't understand, have any fundamentalist Christians passed high school Biology Class?


Correct me if I am wrong, please. But are not monkeys in the chimpanzee family?
And in answer to your final question, I don't really consider myself in a box of fundamentalist Christianity, but I can answer that I made straight A's in Biology.

For someone is arguing against evolution you don't seem know very much about it. It might be an idea for you to brush up on it before debating it further.

When people call chimps monkeys they are using a leyman's term. Generally 'real' monkeys are quite small in comparison, have tails etc and live in trees. Chimps, monkeys, the great apes and humans all belong to the primate family.. not the 'monkey' family.
Chimps are genetically closer to humans than any other primate. If you have any other questions regarding TOE please go to the origins forum.

And so [on topic] I repeat what I and others have continually asked you for:

Which group of atheists are you talking about specifically? All of us? What have we been doing to overthrow christianty? What evidence do you have to demonstrate this? You started this thread so it's up to you to prove this conspiracy.. otherwise we'll just conclude that you only started this thread in order to attack and demonise the moral charactors of all atheists without justification. Judge not lest ye be judged etc.. or at least do us the curtesy of backing those accusations up.

[edit on 10-2-2008 by riley]




posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by sizzle
Would everyone agree that Einstein is a scientist?
Is everyone familiar with the Theory of Relativity?
If your answers are yes, then you must realize, that here is where Einstein became convinced that there had to be a Master Creator.


And that is Einstein's opinion on the matter.


And if you say, "Well, that was only a theory!"
Then you have to admit that what Darwin had, was only a theory.


And in both cases, the theory is derived from accumulated data pointing towards the theory. You display hte classic mistake of equating theory with speculation, which seems to be a favorite of the science-ignorant among your religion.

The Theory of relativity has as much to do with god as the theory of evolution. it cna be as inclusive or exclusive with regards to a deity or assortment of deities as you wish, because neither theory makes presumptions one way or another.

Christian ranting about "godless evolution" is pretty funny as the idea that evolution denies god is one invented by these same Christians. For some reason these Christians also claim their god is incapable of using the laws of natural selection and evolution to develop his creation.


Would also like to add that since the discovery of DNA in recent years, further studies and testing has pretty much proven that evolution would be an impossibility, because it would cause horrible mutations. But yet, so many ppl still cling to the hope that they belong to the monkey family.


Sauce plz, as they say in the chanverse.


I will see if I can find a link on that, as I was just reading about it.
Also, it wasn't too long ago, that the NY Times published an article about a fossil skeleton that they uncovered, which also dashed the hopes of evolution.

[edit on 10-2-2008 by sizzle]


How did it do this?



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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Just a little friendly reminder for everyone: CLICK HERE.

Have a ball. Or, Dedicated to Riley and anyone else looking for unbiased sources: CLICK HERE. Whichever one makes you happy. I've never seen that site mention anything about Jesus or God. Simply, a designer. Moving along...



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Have a ball. Or, Dedicated to Riley and anyone else looking for unbiased sources: CLICK HERE. Whichever one makes you happy. I've never seen that site mention anything about Jesus or God. Simply, a designer. Moving along...

Thats because it's pretending to be a scientific source in order to try establish itself as 'real' science in order to get religion into school science classes. They tried.. went to court and lost as it was ruled not to be a science. If you still want to insist it's objective we could always start discussing the scientific legitmacy of the flying spaghetti monster.

It is also funded by christian groups.
This discussion is meant to be about atheists conspiring.. that ID site just shows christians conspiring against TOE..

[edit on 10-2-2008 by riley]



posted on Feb, 10 2008 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by riley
 


Riley,
I believe that if you will look closely, you will see a question mark at the end of the thread title. Which makes it a question and not an accusation.
You seem to have a way of twisting everything that I say to you, no matter how I say it, so there will be no further communication between us in this thread.
There is no way that you could possibly have thought that I was accusing you of anything and I will not be goaded into a fight.



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


Then I submit THIS for your viewing pleasure.

Intelligent Design is not immediately equated with the Judeo Christian God. Who knew? And I still see nothing on the previous website that mentions anything being funded by Christians.

Again, moving along...



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 04:37 AM
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why is it that nobody replies to me when i'm completely on topic?

honestly, sizzle, if you want to prove that there's a conspiracy of atheists, you're going to have to point out the group.

the largest group of atheists i can find is American Atheists...it has 2,200 members.*

not exactly something that could overthrow Christianity, is it?

can you please point us to the group that is attempting the overthrow?

*edit: i was wrong, the Freedom From Religion Foundation is actually the largest group with 11,000 members...but it isn't clear that all members of the FFRF are atheists, as many of other religious viewpoints support their view on Constitutional separation of Church and State

[edit on 2/11/08 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


honestly, sizzle, if you want to prove that there's a conspiracy of atheists, you're going to have to point out the group.

once again, this was a question, and not an accusation. So, there is no burden of proof on anybody. This is a discussion.


the largest group of atheists i can find is American Atheists...it has 2,200 members.*

not exactly something that could overthrow Christianity, is it?

if there were any truth to the matter, (IF) We hear that there are 13 families in the illuminati that rule the world. Guess nothing is impossible.


Edit to ask: Also Madness, Why do you insist on putting Atheists in particular separate groups? Isn't that like denominations of a religion? Just for the point of discussion; define what the word atheist is suppose to mean.

Another Edit: If we want to split hairs and formally decide that there is a conspiracy of such; I might would want to pin you down in the same way and ask you which group of Christianity, or which religious group, that you would like to dispose of? Or that 'THEY' would like to dispose of. Do you see how useless this method becomes?






[edit on 11-2-2008 by sizzle]



[edit on 11-2-2008 by sizzle]



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by sizzle
 


agreed god is real -no you say -try dying three times try standing and answering his questions then being told that you have to return here no questions asked - i already have -try to understand that all you were taught to believe in is false as were your teachers. one unknown fact your Christ did not die for your sins people he died because he stood up to the insane little tyrants who rule your lives he said no to them and stood up to them he told them they had to stop what they are doing and to change.So they hung him out to die on the cross their way of telling the world that they are our god ops false gods- militarys arrested him -tried him with the churches help and support -government approved-and the money lenders paid for it-banks . their way of forwarning you of their grand plan and all the mindless little sheep of the world blindly followed them.as the tyrants make the rules & laws,the only thing that you have left is the right & freedom to do as your told when where why and how they say no questions asked.question them or stand up and see how fast you are turned on by then=m ask the children of rock & roll or the children from kent state or tiannamin square not only who killed them but who supported the senseless killing of your children-better yet watch it again in their newspaper propaganda as your all slaves to their false tyrannical power- remember power corrupts and that only the corrupt need to be powerfull in their own eyes,



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by riley
 

Genetically we are related to monkeys and to other primates. That DNA you think proves evolution impossible proved this beyond a doubt some time ago.

Huh? That's like saying butter is the same as margarine. Margarine looks like butter, tastes mostly like butter, and looks alot like butter. But it is one molecule away from being plastic...and it ain't butter.



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


That doesn't help it escape the fact that it doesn't line up with the scientific method. It also leads to a logical paradox, which, in the realm of science, essentially makes an idea garbage.



posted on Feb, 11 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


The same is true with aspects of evolution. And even theistic evolution which gets accused of violating Occman's Razor. Sorry for the mini-post but this topic bores me to tears and has its own forum where this has been discussed a zillion times.

[edit on 2/12/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

not exactly something that could overthrow Christianity, is it?

can you please point us to the group that is attempting the overthrow?



[edit on 2/11/08 by madnessinmysoul]




why is it that nobody replies to me when i'm completely on topic?


Perhaps it is because they know what you are about and they finally get it.
The fact is, Madd, if God himself appeared before you, you are so dead set against the idea, that you would check yourself into a hospital and say someone drugged you. You simply have no intention of being corrected about any part of the Bible you say is a flaw or contradiction, you have no intention of listening with the idea of learning anything because that isn't what you are about.

You are about being an antagonist to Christians on these boards which is made patent with every post you make in every thread where Christians congregate. You believe in nothing so we have nothing to gain from listening to you and you already have heard what you got to say so I know you don't want to listen to that either. What we have to say about what we believe is only another post regardless of it's accuracy, or its historical credibility you will dissect it, ad hom it, mock it and say we can't handle when someone challenges our "worldview" when if I did that you would say I was pushing my religion on you.

I have seen you use the same tired lines that every other atheist gets off the many "How to argue with a Christian" website most of which are as asinine about the things they THINK the Bible is contradicting itself about as Evolution is for thinking it hasn't had a HISTORY of Pro Atheist's like yourself who have made their science about as objective as a closed casket is for viewing who is inside.


Perhaps it is that when ever they click on any member of this forum who happens to be a Christian, they find YOUR name in the list of foe's they have, whether you have ever responded to them or not, you seem to see all of us that way I take it. I personally don't have the time to look through this forum for every known atheist just to add them to that category just because they are Atheist.



honestly, sizzle, if you want to prove that there's a conspiracy of atheists, you're going to have to point out the group.


I think she just did and you just used the name of that group in the question. They are called Atheists. I have also sent most of the Christians on this forum the suggestion that since Atheists like you are going to continue lumping all religions together in broad generalizations then we should not concern ourselves with the thought of other "types" of atheists. If anyone is going to give atheism a bad name it will be those atheists that antagonize people of faith in God. We have heard you say too many times that you are of a single position so that doesnt leave a lot of room for other types. Even if it did, why should we believe you when you won't us about anything.

When someone tells you they believe in a GOD you do not, then it is clear that you think we believe in something WE KNOW ISN'T TRUE. So in effect you are calling us a liar or something else it really doesnt matter because the last thing you are going to agree is that we just may be right.



the largest group of atheists i can find is American Atheists...it has 2,200 members.*



Here you go again with the Teflon double standards. They don't amount to a big number depending on the argument I see. Yet your High Priest Richard Dawkins says that Atheists number around 20 million or as much as the average non denominational Christian Religious sect.

He has plenty of Video's at Google and Youtube you can update your information from. I really don't care whether you believe or not because,, again,, I know what you are about.



*edit: i was wrong, the Freedom From Religion Foundation is actually the largest group with 11,000 members...but it isn't clear that all members of the FFRF are atheists, as many of other religious viewpoints support their view on Constitutional separation of Church and State


Sorry,, the FBI recently reconstructed the Thomas Jefferson document that reveals he had no intention of putting the separation of church and state to mean the kind of extreme removal of GOD from our form of Government. I have heard Atheist say Jefferson was an Atheist and that too was a reconstructed document in addition to other letters in his own hand that was discovered where it is quite clear he was a Christian.

I posted a link to the original documents, they are very old and hard to read but not it is legible. Again I posted them in a response to this very issue and you continue to go along with your agenda. You resist God no matter what. You believe Evolution is fact supported by evidence regardless of the compelling arguments made to people like Dawkins that to this day he just dances around using words that if you were me,, you would say can only be believed by a HUGE leap of faith.

It is so dogmatic a science that the very needs for open minded objectives are blocked by its very determined disbelief in the super natural. The Science serves the agenda for Atheists as a tool for conversion to the Atheist blind faith.

I know you don't think you have blind faith but like you have done with us,,where we are told essentially that we believe in things that don't exist, we know they do and when we tell you that as a witness to the spiritual changes that manifest from our faith in believing, you continue to argue with us. So if you are going to argue with us about things you consider are ignorant about atheism, we may as well be about the things you are wrong about with us.

I have taken the time to import your entire post database and will be offering it as a time saver for other Christians so that they have something more to consider when deciding if you are worth the time to respond to. I can't tell you how many times they have had the same arguments with you as I have where you continue to tell us we abuse our children, slandering every Christian Parent, you continue to say Hitler was a Christian who loved Jesus as if you knew him yourself, You continue to mock the lord in apples and orange type of comparisons where you insist they are the same comparison using your own criteria while ignoring the fact that all of us don't believe in a living Santa Clause. By the way madd I used to believe in Santa Clause when I was about 3-4 years old. By the time I was FIVE that so called abuse that my parents indoctrinated me with I had figured out for myself and think most kids are unscathed by the *Block Buster* news that Santa is a myth.

I have never even considered of using it against my parents and it would be absolutely laughed out of court if anyone did.

- Con



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by sizzle
reply to post by riley
 


Riley,
I believe that if you will look closely, you will see a question mark at the end of the thread title. Which makes it a question and not an accusation.


Putting a question mark next to an accusation just makes it an accusation with a question mark next to it. Thats like me asking "are all christians really satanists?" or "are all priests really pedos?" etc. not very subtle sizzle:

Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?

The implication is already there and it's called a loaded question and was in no way innocent. I'm sure others agree with me as they have also asked you to back up your claims about atheists.. now it just seems as though you want to disown your OP and pretend you were just wondering alloud or something. If thats the case it should be in belowtopsecret.. right now you've dismissed the more difficult ontopic arguments as being attacks and have now proceeded to use this thread to bash evolution theory.



You seem to have a way of twisting everything that I say to you, no matter how I say it,

Another accusation.
Thats the 2nd thing you've accused me of now [excluding the OP]. I've twisted nothing.. re-read everything I have said and you will see that I have not taken you out of context at all.

so there will be no further communication between us in this thread.

Yet you still haven't shown us any evidence behind your ["veiled" lol] accusation that all atheists are conspiring to overthrow christianity.. instead you have now opted to cry victim.. kind of ironic given the OP claims you are anyway...

There is no way that you could possibly have thought that I was accusing you of anything and I will not be goaded into a fight.

Says the person who not only started a thread baiting atheists but also publically chastises people for not being on topic when they are. I'm annoyed that you have now accused me of trying to goad you into a fight when YOU are the one who has started a thread in order to put all atheists on trial.. I have been trying to debate that by concentrating on your 'arguments' rather than you personally yet you keep getting personal which keeps derailing the thread.
I and others asked you continually to back it your OP up but instead you dismissed those requests as hostility.. an action which in turn creates it. Imo thats a very passive agressive tactic. You started this thread.. just because people expect you to prove what you say doesn't mean they are just being mean. Your not wanting to communicate with me any more sounds more like it's too tough a subject for you to tackle.

If you didn't want atheists asking you to back your claims about them.. why make them?

I'll make it simple for you:


Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?


What prompted you to ask this question in the first place if you didn't think it were based on some fact? This forum is meant for actual conspiracies.. your OP claims there is one so the onus is on you to at least bring some evidence to the table. So far all thats been achieved is alot of pages.

Edit. Please do not continue to accuse me of things I have not done as last time I got an [apparently overturned] warning for it so am getting tired of it. You are the last person who should be throwing stones.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by riley]



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by idle_rocker
Genetically we are related to monkeys and to other primates. That DNA you think proves evolution impossible proved this beyond a doubt some time ago.



Yeah it was this year that they discovered we are genetically related to all things and that you can rearrange DNA to become anything. Check PBS for the next time it is on television

That only tells me DNA is clay but which of those sculptures of life are imbued with a soul is another thing entirely. I think what sizzle id talking about is what DNA uses in a very definable code or language that has both the capacity to encode and decode . The idea that a molecule can talk is as a solid proof as you have for knowing someone actually created this post by the fact that you can read it and a brain that read the prior post is responding to it.

The sculpter?

GOD

- Con


[edit on 12-2-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


Welcome back Con,
I am so very glad to see
you back.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 03:06 AM
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Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

It spews hatred, intolerance, and racism among other things. You can argue all day and night that Christianity is a religion about love, but in the end, It's Christianity that gives Christianity a bad rap. Have you read your own bible


You are assuming she has another one? I mean different from the one you can dis contextualize data without the slightest introspection for honesty regarding the culture when written or for the consequences you seem to be blaming the same GOD that makes the consequence a non issue but it would kill you to believe it.



if I don't believe in Your God then I will burn in Your Hell.

Good thing you don't believe in that idea huh.


DNA replication results in genetic mutation every once in a while, through natural selection the beneficial mutations create new and stronger species.


Oh you mean like sharks? They have been around millions and millions of years suggesting more then "every once in a while" yet sharks have been the same. Or do you mean like alligators? They have been around millions and millions of years all the way back to dinosaurs and yet they looked then just as they do now.

Or do you mean like Dogs? where again the time it takes to justify such negative mutations through natural selection is indeed something that would take millions of years yet every single breed of dog came from the wolf in only 150 - 200 years. The statement Magilla Gorilla is our relative has now been made moot when they discovered that we can connect to any species and that any species can be reconfigured in the DNA which supports the notion that all negative mutation is BUNK and that the capacity for survival attributes in creating some new species were not mutations at all, that these adaptations were there to begin with as seen with dogs.

Biology has been so stunted in its capacity for reaching new heights because it has been so handicapped by a scientific dogma that retards the very advances it tries to achieve while blaming it on the very thing that would make those achievements possible.




I don't understand, have any fundamentalist Christians passed high school Biology Class?


Next time you want to suggest someone is stupid by implying they failed at Biology, you might want to consider that Biology is a flawed science because of the theory of evolution. That is becoming more evident with each passing year.

- Con



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 04:32 AM
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There needs to be an atheist conspiracy, or rather a scientific conspiracy.

Religion has been one of the biggest, if not THE biggest bottleneck blockage of human advancement throughout all of history. And now, at our most technologically advanced in all recorded history, we are still letting rumours, old wives tales, witchcraft, ghosts and goblins play such a massive part in the shaping of global civilisation.

It needs to be stripped down to point zero - Start at the beginning, collate all information, geological, anthropological, written records, analyse everything - it will take a long time - Banish all myths and hearsay about the monotheistic religions and lay everything out on the table for everyone to see.

People, regardless of their personal beliefs or lack of them, need to know the most upto date TRUTHS regarding what these dusty old tombs porport, and what those in positions of power and influence porport these dusty old tombs are telling them to do.

If something cannot be proven or shown be evident - it will be labelled as a myth, just as all past religions are labelled mythology by our Abrahamic-centric societies. People should be free to believe in whatever myth they like, but as a believer in myth, they should not be able to use their myths to shape the laws of the land.

Tolerance of blind faith leads to ignorance and fundamentalism. Shutting our mouths so as not to offend people of faith is exactly why these beliefs can be used in the detrimental ways that they are used.

Will it happen? Probably not - there's way too much money and power in keeping people dumbed down and scared of the big man in the sky who will send them to hell for all eternity if they dare to question authority and think with their own mind, even if it means flipping all their previous beliefs on their head.

It's time to slaughter some sacred cows, my butcher's knife is sharp and itching for the first sacrifical kill! - Metaphorically speaking you understand (for all those LITERALISTS!)



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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I see that a lot of people mistakenly think that the word mythology, automatically means, false, or made-up. Here is a better definition:


There is a wide range of scholarly definitions of the word "myth". In its broadest academic sense, the word "myth" simply means a traditional story. However, many scholars restrict the term "myth" to sacred stories. [11] Professional folklorists often go farther: by the classic definition used by folklorists, myths are "tales believed as true, usually sacred, set in the distant past or other worlds or parts of the world, and with extra-human, inhuman, or heroic characters". [12]

If "myth", narrowly defined, must be both sacred and "believed as true", then the most clear-cut examples of Christian mythology come from Christian scripture and from the richly-developed hagiographic tradition, with its miraculous wonders. Most Christians consider Biblical stories not just sacred but also true, at least in some sense. (Whether all Biblical stories are literally true is a matter of disagreement among Christians. For a discussion of the debate, see Biblical literalism.)

Note that the term "mythology" does not encompass all of the Christian scriptures. Because a myth is a traditional story, non-narrative scriptures or portions of scripture (e.g., proverbs, theological writings) are not themselves "myths".
en.wikipedia.org...

Oh, and to the post-er above; I'm not afraid of the Big Guy in the sky. He's a pretty neat dude.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology
You are assuming she has another one? I mean different from the one you can dis contextualize data without the slightest introspection for honesty regarding the culture when written or for the consequences you seem to be blaming the same GOD that makes the consequence a non issue but it would kill you to believe it.


Thanks, Con. I just finished explaining such "arguments by outrage" and really didn't feel like getting back into it with people that refuse to look at the textual and social contexts and how Jesus brought a progressive revelation of peace and equalitiy. If anyone cares, the derailment began HERE and went on for several pages. Finally gave up because most of the arguments were coming from a website that uses Legos to illustrate the Bible.



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