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The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training

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posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by azblack




Does the technology exist to use an autopilot or hack program for it to execute these technical maneuvers


The autopilot can be used in conjunction with the FMS (Flight Management System) to guide the airpane to a predetermined point using its IRS (Inertial Reference System).

While IRS is extremely accurate is is not accurate to 23 feet which is how far UAL missed dead center at the south tower. This presumes that the hijackers knew how to reprogram the FMS and new the precise coordinates of the WTC.

The FMS however, will not accept speeds outside the certificated values. Therefore the autopilot could not have been used at speeds above Vmo (360 kts.)


and is it possible these people accused weren't even on the plane or there was no pilot or at least an incompacitated one



Nobody was on board either of the airplanes that hit he WTC towers. As a matter of fact there were no planes. It was a scam. A PsyOp. No radar guided or remote controlled aircraft could have possibly hit within 23 feet of dead center at 560 miles per hour at 800 feet above sea level. No Boeing 767 could have achieved 560 mph at sea level. Its impossible.




posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
I would also position them farther out at about 300 kts. Since the hijackers had some time to get some feel of the plane as they were flying in to the towers. It would also be a great experiment to see at what level of experience is needed to successfully do the Pentagon run in.

What I would really like is for OrionStar to join you and fly the sim too.


What gave you the impression it was going to be anyone from our side of the argument being tested? That is not the impression John gave me. I understood John to say, your side now has the unique opportunity to test out your "official" report hypothesis, in a commercial jetliner flight simulator. All you have to do is make the trip and show up, to test it out in a flight simulator firmly attached a few feet above ground level.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by johnlear
While we have your attention here John

Perhaps you could tell us how accurate the full-motion simulator environment is in relation to the real thing. One more experienced voice might be helpful



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by johnlear
 

I agree 100% with the conspiracy theories and,can fathom possibilities of other planes being used to give the appearance of a jumbo sized commercial airliner starting the disaster. However being a construction worker gives me no validity in arguments of the aviational kind. HOWEVER I am very well based to make arguments the fall of these buildings were not caused by the impact of any size airliner, this of course not only based on the fact that the building would not self destruct in fashion it did not to mention the various secondary explosions in lower levels of the buildings as it fell. I know the buildings did not collapse without extreme engineering to make them fall in the manner they did without lean or deviation from center. Let make my point I know you might not be able to answer this (no pun) but how would the governmental agencies fake the plane contact with the building this contact is the only factor in the conspiracy I do not understand. There were thousands of witnesses and people on the plane who are un accounted for by their families a couple here in texas, I will not argue the point whether the plane could have the maneuver as I agree with you when said IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE. The total setup of even some plane impact seems impossible to plan. ANY SUGGESTION?



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear

I know you're out there Chic. Come out, come out, wherever you are!



This is just sick. No respect at all.

CTs should denounce this type of post, if for no either reason than that they might be wrong in their beliefs.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Richard Gizinu
 



Please elaborate. Why would we denounce this post?



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars

What gave you the impression it was going to be anyone from our side of the argument being tested? That is not the impression John gave me. I understood John to say, your side now has the unique opportunity to test out your "official" report hypothesis, in a commercial jetliner flight simulator. All you have to do is make the trip and show up, to test it out in a flight simulator firmly attached a few feet above ground level.


Not tested, but more along the lines of pure enlightenment to what a sim is all about. With no disrespect to John, I think he tends to manipulate his opinion of the facts based on his scenario of Alien technology doing it all with advanced holograph and weaponry.

OrionStar,

Is this your own conclusion too?



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Jeff Riff
reply to post by Richard Gizinu
 



Please elaborate. Why would we denounce this post?


No respect for his family. I guess you missed that?



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Richard Gizinu
 


Ahhh my bad man, I see what you are saying now. Sorry about that, i was thinking that you were talking about the whole thread in general



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

Not tested, but more along the lines of pure enlightenment to what a sim is all about. With no disrespect to John, I think he tends to manipulate his opinion of the facts based on his scenario of Alien technology doing it all with advanced holograph and weaponry.

OrionStar,

Is this your own conclusion too?


Ok, enlightenment if you prefer that word. It is still for your enlightment, not ours, if you accept John Lear's offer to try what you think could have happen. He is giving you and your side unique opportunity to prove it.

If you do not quit the ad hominem attacks against other posters, the one lacking credibility continues to be you.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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I'll be really interested to see if this test pans out. I am truely excited and appreciate John setting something like this up.

Orionstar,
On a side note, please don't start the whole hologram idea on this thread as it has never had any supportive evidence.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Are you going to accept John Lear's offer? If not, why not? It was your challenge. Now you have the unique opportunity to prove your challenge.

You are an arrogant presumptuous one. Presuming I would simply veer off topic when I had no such intent.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:02 PM
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Why is it disrespectful to imagine a scenario that allows the passengers and or pilots to remain alive? There is no evidence they died, that for sure. I do not agree with John Lear on this count, but since we know the official story is a total lie any other possibility remains a viable option.

I believe that all were killed to complete the mission and leave no loose ends. If even ONE person known to be aboard a flight that supposedly crashed were proven alive, that would open a can of worms that the perps could not shut. Why take the risk? It is the same logic that the old Mafioso boss Remo Gangne in Hotel always gave when faced with a potential prolem : " Why take a chance? " Easier to kill another hundred or so than risk losing it all.

To think that the over one hundred passengers and crew are alive and under deep cover or under lock and key waiting for...whatever, does not convince me. But maybe John has specific knowledge he cannot share that makes him believe as he does..I don't know. Maybe he is wrong.

But in any event there is NOTHING sacred about a criminal invesigation; all leads must be followed, all possibilities must be explored and no circumstances are beyond review.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by jfj123
 


Are you going to accept John Lear's offer?

It depends on where it's going to be. Not an excuse just reality of the business world. I should state, I have no formal flight training and we know the terrorists did but I'd still be willing to give it a shot. Should be a fun experiment regardless of the outcome.


It was your challenge.

This is what I mean about you posting false info. It was John Lear's challenge and he asked that anyone from the other side of the discussion, accept.


Now you have the unique opportunity to prove your challenge.

Again not my challenge but John Lear's. In all seriousness, I honestly appreciate the opportunity if John Lear is genuine and I suspect he is. Although I have disagreed with him on a number of issues, I do believe he is a nice person.


You are an arrogant presumptuous one.

How is that?


Presuming I would simply veer off topic when I had no such intent.


Well this is what made me think that


Originally posted by Xtrozero
Not tested, but more along the lines of pure enlightenment to what a sim is all about. With no disrespect to John, I think he tends to manipulate his opinion of the facts based on his scenario of Alien technology doing it all with advanced holograph and weaponry.

OrionStar,
Is this your own conclusion too?
Ok, enlightenment if you prefer that word. It is still for your enlightment, not ours, if you accept John Lear's offer to try what you think could have happen. He is giving you and your side unique opportunity to prove it.

If you do not quit the ad hominem attacks against other posters, the one lacking credibility continues to be you.

Based on your response, I believed you to object to Xtrozero's subject matter regarding "alien technology doing it all with advanced holograph and weaponry".

If this was not your intent, I sincerely apologize.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
Why is it disrespectful to imagine a scenario that allows the passengers and or pilots to remain alive? There is no evidence they died, that for sure.


Except for all the body parts at the Shanksville crash site.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

It depends on where it's going to be. Not an excuse just reality of the business world. I should state, I have no formal flight training and we know the terrorists did but I'd still be willing to give it a shot. Should be a fun experiment regardless of the outcome.


Ah, cop out time for you and your side. He stated it was for novices and others with various degrees of flight skills. You just stated you are a novice. It is available to you as well. I believe he said Las Vegas.

Surely among your side people could donate to send one of you to try out your hypothesis, can't they? Surely there are organized groups with money promoting your side of the argument. You could contact them to help some of you prove your hypothesis for them and yourselves.


This is what I mean about you posting false info. It was John Lear's challenge and he asked that anyone from the other side of the discussion, accept.


You challenged John Lear's expertise. That makes it your challenge. John countered your challenge to him with action not just words.


Presuming I would simply veer off topic when I had no such intent.


Well this is what made me think that


Originally posted by Xtrozero
Not tested, but more along the lines of pure enlightenment to what a sim is all about. With no disrespect to John, I think he tends to manipulate his opinion of the facts based on his scenario of Alien technology doing it all with advanced holograph and weaponry.


You got your absurd presumption from my words you cited? The word enlightment is giving you a comprehension problem, is it? You can easily access Webster's on line to learn the definition of the word enlightenment. Please keep in mind it was your side bringing up that word of preference for use. I simply complied with the preference.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


A "vaporized" plane still having human bodies and remains intact. That is an interesting hypothesis. Far out but interesting.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by OrionStars
 



Ah, cop out time for you and your side. He stated it was for novices and others with various degrees of flight skills. You just stated you are a novice. It is available to you as well. I believe he said Las Vegas.

Unfortunately I live in Michigan. I said I'd really like to do it but I can't fly out to vegas, it's simply not practical.


Surely among your side people could donate to send one of you to try out your hypothesis, can't they? Surely there are organized groups with money promoting your side of the argument. You could contact them to help some of you prove your hypothesis for them and yourselves.

Why in the world would you think there is some kind of fund raising group on either side of the DISCUSSION??? Are you serious???



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by jfj123
 


A "vaporized" plane still having human bodies and remains intact. That is an interesting hypothesis. Far out but interesting.



I said body part. Parts of bodies. parts is not intact.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Body remains still have to be intact to get DNA from some body parts but not all.




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