The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training

reply to post by weedwhacker


The question you should have asked yourself before addressing me is, do you know anything about the Semitic languages or ties of ethnicity between Jews and Arabs. Do you?

Originally posted by OrionStars
Some people simply buy at face value "official" reports. Then spent all their time spinning the wheels of their brains vainly attempting to turn logic into illogic and illogic into logic.

Some people continue to fabricate "make believe" scientific fields of study, and physical priciples, and interject their opinions regarding what is possible, or not, and what is likely, or not without a shred of real science or fact to support their position.

reply to post by darkbluesky


No it does not. Which means some people do not understand the difference in construction of bird wings and airplane wings. I have stated that at least once.

Do you still wish to contend birds and airplanes use the same principles of aerodynamics? If you do, you are going to have to compare the two by construction and explain how that can happen. You are familiar with the distinct differences, aren't you?

I did bother to look at the biography of one person contending the principle is the same you promote. I also noted he was incapable using applied physics for a living, and instead went into business doing computer progamming.

Here is a little about out author of the article:
"Nila Sagadevan tells of a hardcore skeptic who absolutely refuses to believe that 9/11 was a hoax despite his reading books on the subject and watching DVDs. According to Nila this skeptic wrote:


Please do a simple mind calculation and estimate how many people would be involved with all aspects of the 9/11 scheme as you describe it. Now calculate what percentage of those people are NOT in the Federal Gov't (a wild assumption that the Feds CAN keep a secret). Then do something that you can't learn in a physics class. Be honest with yourself in regard to whether all of those people could live in silence about what they (or those that they know) had done?"

taken from: www.serendipity.li...


On a more personal note, here is a little more about the life of the man:
www.warpaintofthegods.com...

reply to post by jfj123


You are comparing apples and oranges. People can be bi-lingual, and you would never know it if you are not around them when they speak and write English. If they do not speak English, and have not made a great deal of effort to learn proficient English comprehension, they will not be surviving without a translator with them 24/7. Not in the US will they be surviving of their own volition, IF they have not become proficient in American English. That is a fact. Ever been to a foreign country and not speak the language? I have which is why I know that is true, as does everyone else doing the same.

They do have automobiles in foreign countries. However, driving a ground vehicle and flying a commercial jetliner are not comparable. They also have flight schools in their own countries. Why did they need to come to the US for flight training, when they could have gotten it in their own homelands instructed in their own native languages? Boeing ships planes all over the world, including to Saudi Arabia. Boeing will send flight instructors speaking Arabic to train. They do have schools in Saudi Arabia teaching the English language as well.

Then some alleged hijackers spent so much time making spectacles of themselves, by announcing to flight instructors they were planning on running commercial jetliners into US buildings, among other incidents reported by US bureaucrats. Then making spectacles of themselves at Logan, by becoming belligerant shortly before boarding the alleged planes they planned on allegedly hijacking. How ridiculous to even think that would happen. IF people were going to carry off such a sophiticated covert scheme, requiring higher intelligence, before being stopped from boarding any alleged planes by the authorities.

If they were so stupid to do all that, why would anyone think they were bright enough to carry off all that alleged successful hijacking scheme?

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by darkbluesky

 

No it does not.

What, does not do what?

Which means some people do not understand the difference in construction of bird wings and airplane wings. I have stated that at least once.

What does this have to do with the impossibility of flying a heavy aircraft without training, or without full command of the English language?

Do you still wish to contend birds and airplanes use the same principles of aerodynamics?

I never made that contention

You are familiar with the distinct differences, aren't you?

I have a general notion regarding the differences between a bird and an airplane.

I did bother to look at the biography of one person contending the principle is the same you promote. I also noted he was incapable using applied physics for a living, and instead went into business doing computer progamming.

I have no idea what you're talking about or how it relatates to your contention that the alleged terrorists could not have flown the profiles flown on 9/11/01.

I believe you are a pure contrarian, who's first langauge is not English, who enjoys arguing for arguments sake, with a secondary benefit of improving your english skills.

My reason for believing you to be a contrarian is your pattern of starting a new line of argument at each point where simple reasoning and statement of fact shows your previous statements to be false.

[edit on 1/17/2008 by darkbluesky]

[edit on 1/17/2008 by darkbluesky]

Originally posted by Pilgrum
It's clear he knew how to operate the aircraft and what language do they speak? Perhaps his only deficiency was in oral english.

Of course, we all know that instructions are always given in writing and so easily understood by those incapable of comprehending oral instruction. Do you seriously believe that is what happens in flight training or any formal education? If so, why?

When I attended both college and university, most classes were spent in lecturing from the profs, not written papers to be read in class. We had text books for the reading portion of class requirements. I experienced the same in elementary and high school classes as well.

reply to post by darkbluesky


If you do not know that, then you have no business promoting something you do not comprehend, such as the prinicples of aerodynamics and differences in use of same by construction of the physical matter.

Originally posted by miragewsu
Well, I'm glad more people chimed in on this thread. I think we established that it is possible for these guys(who got more training that I initially thought) would have been capable of crashing these large planes into buildings.

Now did they actually do it? I'm not sure but that is a topic for another thread.

Oh... another thing.. there is no such thing as Quantum Aerodynamics..

Quantum effects are averaged out over such large systems.

Actually, if you stated it correctly, rather than the incorrect way you did state it, there is.

As for establishing whether it was possible, that was not done. Perhaps not understanding the quantum mechanics laws of aerodynamics is why it was not done? Do you think perhaps that could be it? Or do people wish to keep telling us they actually know little to nothing, concerning the principles of aerodynamic energy (quantum mechanics) and its reaction on physical matter (physics)?

As I noted previously, the official story says that one pilot, Ogonowski, actually cooperated with the highjackers and flew the plane ' almost to NY ". The tapes of those supposed conmversation and sounds were grabbed by the FBI and never given to the 9-1 Commission and are denied today to anyone seeking them.

I do not believe that Ogonowski, a burly veteran likely to fight to the death rather than take orders from a highjacker, gave up control OR flew the plane for anyone else. The radio sounds were meant, like all of them, to give credence to the official lie. His copilot is not mentioned at all, as if he just disappeared from his seat and was replaced by some Saudi with a boxcutter!!

With all of the flase blips inserted onto the ATC radars, no wonder the perpos could get away with this event..the games are the key to it all. And for some to suggest that Osama was sitting in a cave somewhere tapping out some secret code and disabling our defenses is funny except for the stupidity of it.

This was, with NO doubts any more at all, a job done by the USA shadow NEOCON cabal with Cheney at the helm of the political branch...his job was to stand down the Pentagons defenses and he did so..and was caught by Norman Mineta, who was cluless about what it meant..and who resigned the same day that his role in it was mentioned in the press.

This nation is under the control of a criminal cabal so deeply intrenched into our military and corporate upper echelons that they are in fact now in charge. They cannot be touched by the current set up: The congress is totally ineffective and useless: If they cannot find enough crimes to impeach both Cheney and Bush then they simply are looking the other way..and that is NOT what we pay them to do. By the way, the congress just gave themselves another raise for the great jobs they are doing!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


For those who do not know, the US Department of Education has written standards for oral and written proficiency in English and other subjects. People are tested by those standards before being issued a pilot's license. It is done on the written tests students are required to take during flight instruction, in order to receive a certified pilot's license.

According fight instructors, "Hani" could not get passed either the oral or written portion of English comprehension for a Cessna or video arcade portion of flight simulation. Is this finally getting through to the clingers of the "official" reports? Because if not, it never will.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Why would they be, unless pilots are only going to be in contact with those speaking and writing Arabic? Otherwise, they will be lost on any ground control communication in countries where the primary language is not Arabic and there are no translators available.

reply to post by eyewitness86


No argument here. Just additional involved factors related to what you posted.

I would be interested to know at what point all that seat switching took place, without throwing that plane into a tizzy losing altitude, and not have it show up on radar screen - before the transponder was shut off. The pilot would not shut off the transponder. The pilot knows not to give up control of his plane for any reason, as long as he is still capable of flying that plane.

The minute any pilot releases control that plane is not going to remain elevated, while someone tries to locate the autopilot to kick it in. There will be a brief delay between the pilot relinquishing control, and the autopilot kicking in. The pilot has to wait until the autopilot kicks in to let go.

The moment ground control sees a transponder shut down, they radio the pilot and keep on until the pilot responds. If the pilot does not respond, the supervisor of the shift is immediately notified of no pilot response. NORAD is automatically notified because FAA ground control and NORAD are directly linked for the same information.

The allegations of people forced their way into some alleged cockpit could startle the pilot enough to lose concentration of flight pattern or flying in general. That would send the plane into a tizzy, which would definitely show up on radar at that moment in flight time. Control center would definitely ask the pilot if there a problem with the plane or pilot. If no response, see above for immediate chain of command reporting.

reply to post by eyewitness86


Wasn't it amazing that Cheney was running the show instead of Rumsfeld, who is supposed to be running it but was not? The only reason we are supposed to elect a vice-president is in the event something happens to the president. No other reason.

Cheney should not have been in charge of defense on 9/11/2001. Rumsfeld was. That is the job of the Secretary of Defense. To act in place of the president when the president is unavailable for any reason.

Rumsfeld claims he had no idea any planes hit anything and stated he thought the explosion at the Pentagon was TNT.

yeah I am still having a hard time with the men with boxcutters taking control over the plane so swiftly.

Another thing is the war games. Are we all to assume that it is purer coincidence that there were war games that were taking place that day, leaving our defense system crippled? Its hard to believe the official BS, and the point of this thread was to point out another bogus part of the story.

reply to post by Jeff Riff


Jeff, since you're the OP of this thread, I sent you a U2U...I did not want it to be posted publicly. I hope you will understand why.

Best...

reply to post by eyewitness86

With all of the flase blips inserted onto the ATC radars, no wonder the perpos could get away with this event..the games are the key to it all.

Can you provide any source stating that the ATC screens had false blips?

i think there might be something on this site about it

www.911proof.com...

take a look, there is a lot of matierial

Well, being no expert on these matters, (or most matters) i believe all of you make a good valid point. That something is not right. Then why don't we have the one really smart fellow make a formal presentation, that totally proves that this is a conspiracy brought on by the US govt. and ***** prove this s*it in a court room! i mean, we have a lot of people make a lot of claims that they say is irrefutable evidence, but then someone else is always , "well i can prove this wrong". . . well where's the one smart guy that nobody can prove wrong? science sucks! this conspiracy sucks, somebody needs to just end it all! Or stop wasting your time on something you can't prove! Go get laid or something, and wait for the world to end like every other normal person!

they did have training they spent many hours in the flight simulator
the instructors thought it strange that they practiced flying but
never practiced takeoffs or landings
but that is what coverups are for