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Problems with dream lucidity and reality

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posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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In the last few weeks the frequency of my lucid dreaming has increased rapidly. I'm pretty much guaranteed to have at least one lucid dream each night, if not multiple. I've also had a huge increase in wake-initiated lucid dreams. I'm actually getting pretty good at those, to go from conscious straight to lucidity is almost indescribable. Everything looks black, as usual with the eyes closed, and then a picture slowly appears. It gets bigger, and bigger, and right before I feel it wrap around my vision I reach out to touch something within the scene. 80% of the time I see my hand rise within the dream and then it feels like your body is warped into the dream.

On one side I enjoy the experience. It's beautiful. My senses are better and my control can be near absolute. The problem is when I wake up I feel deeply disturbed by my sensation of this reality. Many of my best or most enjoyable human experiences have been 'paranormal'; obe, sleep paralysis, lucid dreams, etc. It's weird to think the things I have loved about this world, don't matter to the world.

In my dream last night I was with two friends and entirely lucid. I was actually trying to think of what I should do while I was conscious, when something hit me. I lost awareness that I was lucid, but I knew that I was lucid a moment ago. I was trying to explain to my friends that this has never happened. I felt like I was going crazy. I kept thinking "I can't tell the difference between this reality and a dream." The odd thing was that I became more conscious when I first became confused, normally it's the other way around.

I feel upset or angry with the 'real world' for being so weak. I know that sounds weird but it might be the best way to put it. Sometimes while I'm lucid I test the limits of my senses and I love it. Vision is clear and can consciously zoom to anything, even the sense of touch has a wonderful kick to it. And then I come back to this reality and I wonder how real anything I feel is. I've always wondered that, but my increase in lucidity is making this world seem even more faulty. It angers me to see that this world is more complex and abstract than anyone ever cares to imagine. I love that it is, but I feel betrayed by others who walk around with their concrete beliefs.

Ignorance is bliss, and part of me is upset to lose that. Over the years these experiences have drastically shifted my life values and beliefs, mainly anything material or man made. I don't care for clothes, cars, money, any of these things society tells us to want. That change has distanced me from friends and family and I don't like it. Ha, and it doesn't help that I studied psychology and know way too much about consciousness. Or rather, how little we actually know about it. I know there are other lucid dreamers here that are older than me (25), and I wanted to know how you reconciled the abstract distance between the two realities and living in this one. Thanks for reading.

Oh, one last question. As my lucid dreams have increased, my sleep paralysis has almost disappeared. I assume that they may be related but I thought I should ask if others had noticed this. I used to have SP anywhere from two or three times a week to once a month.

Another big thanks to ATS, seriously, if I didn't have this group of open minded people to discuss and debate with I don't know what I'd do. Thank you for the constant reminder I'm not alone.


[edit on 15-1-2008 by Parabol]




posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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I think you may want to back off and try to have lucid dreams only occasionally. It is messing with your mind now. Are you taking anything, like melatonin or maybe one of those herbal teas- skullcap, valarian root, mugwort?

edit to correct typo

[edit on 15-1-2008 by raven bombshell]



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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No, i'm not taking anything. I'm not even trying to have lucid dreams. I don't reality check, write journals, any of the stuff that you're 'supposed' to. In the past I've dabbled in those things but I currently do nothing. They just happen.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 07:10 PM
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Maybe the purpose of writing them down and "fact checking" is to keep yourself grounded. Im actually worried about you. Im going to do some research. Are you really tired and drained during your waking hours?



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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Thank you for your concern. The fact checking is supposed to make you have more lucid dreams. If i program myself to question reality during the day... then...

damn

that's it right there

I study psychology, I'm very interested in consciousness, the brain, reality, and our senses. Merely existing is an incredible thought to comprehend. My brain is already self programmed to observe the basic levels and tenets of reality. The reality checks are supposed to make you actively confirm reality when you are awake, so that you might do it in a dream and then realize you're asleep.

The odd thing is I used to know what made me lucid. Some event would occur in the dream that triggered it. Now they just happen (if it's not wake initiated). I always have this feeling of outsmarting the dream as I become lucid. A hushed chuckle and sly grin normally accompany my realization. I love it when I'm there. I only realize the weight of entirely controlling my reality upon waking up.

I'm also still limited in my dreams, not by anything else, but by myself. I still follow my moral beliefs even when I know they have no consequence. Even if I directly attempt to override it I can't. It's like another part of my brain is filtering it or not allowing me to control that one event, person, or place. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually proud of the fact that my beliefs can hold so strong. It's just a pretty weird thing to see in your own reality.

The tiredness comes and goes. There are nights I don't sleep at all but I'm refreshed in the morning because I laid in bed, which is resting in some way. It's not so much being tired, it's feeling like i've been awake all night despite actually sleeping. I guess I don't get many breaks from my consciousness. Ha, weird thing to say.

[edit on 15-1-2008 by Parabol]



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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Yeah, well, I did look around some, and I found out that the fact checking is for testing during the day whether you are in the real world or dreaming- I think you are saying the same thing.

Before reading about lucid dreaming on wiki book I had no idea that there were people whose dreams were so lucid that they couldn't tell if they were awake or dreaming throughout life. It sounds like it could turn into a mental illness at some point. "Fact checking" may stop working as your brain overrides it or you just get used to it.

I don't know, there may be an expert of some kind or a psychiatrist on board who can say if it is possible to lose touch with reality as a result of too much lucidity.


edited due to OCD

[edit on 15-1-2008 by raven bombshell]



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 09:44 PM
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Seriously, thank you very much for your concern and effort. I wouldn't expect someone else to do that, it is truly kind.

I worry that it could develop into a negative thing as well. I also feel that I'm getting to experience a view of humanity and consciousness that most never will. Though i don't think the lucidity itself could cross over that much. It's more the weight of the concepts or knowledge that affect me. Reality is only as real as we imagine it to be, and most of brains imagine it the same way. Ha, mine is just starting to take a detour.

I think the only thing that would take me over the edge would be the confirmation of external information while in one of these states. Sharing a dream with someone, verifying information I couldn't have known otherwise, that sort of thing. It would be amazing, but quite an eye opener. If I have one tonight I'll see if I can look you up, ha it won't work, but then again who knows.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 11:32 PM
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Hey no problem- I'm glad if it helped. Who knows you might see me, but don't be scared- I didn't do my face

I think the Proactive is starting to work, though.



posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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What a fascinating thread. I am just beginning to experiment with dream lucidity, in the hopes that it will help me control the awful dreams (nightmares) that I've been having lately. You raise some good points. I never thought about it getting to the point where you are so fluently lucid that you may have a hard time telling dream from reality. I am just hoping I will be able to recognize when I am dreaming enough to change the course of my own nightmares. They sure seem real enough to me at the time.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by subliminaut
 


I didnt realize the possibility of it either, but it makes sense. I have had dreams before in which certain events occurred and I would have to keep telling myself in "real" life that they didnt happen. THis is nothing compared to Parabol, but I can see the need to check your reality. At least you know that a "boogieman" dream isnt real. At least i hope.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 02:37 AM
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subliminaut

If you can recreate any part of the dream, do so, and tell yourself you're in a dream. You need to find a trigger within the nightmare that will make your brain check the dream against reality. You could also imagine then what your next steps in the dream would be. Try to remember every detail you can as you imagine. It's about finding the part of your mind that, for lack of a better word, stores the dream. If you can create a new solution and then hook it up to that storage place it could help change your perception of how the events will progress. Having continuous nightmares can get worse if you begin to expect them, or give in to their course. Are the nightmares recurring or thematic? Abstract or vivid?

And you're sort of coming at it from the wrong direction. It's not that your dreams start to feel more like reality. You realize that reality is more like a dream in which we've convinced ourselves is real. If we broke down our assumptions and cognitive shortcuts (which is not an entirely good idea) we'd see how odd this world is. When I think about billions of people, self-aware matter, sharing the same reality... it just blows my mind. I get that feeling like when something is stuck on the tip of your tongue. As if part of my mind almost understands the weight or depth of that statement, but could never wrap itself around it. Quite odd our minds are.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 02:58 AM
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I have never heard of dreams like that, I have however had a few dreams where I would be in a strange place and the next day I would go someplace with a friend and the place I dreamed of would be there or we would go to it. But sometimes I have dreams that scare the bejeeprs out of me and I know these things will happen I actually called my husband one morning and told him to be very careful because I dreamed about a truck turning over in front of him. About 30 minutes after my call it actually happened. But he was able to avoid the accident due to what I had told him.

Hilda



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by Parabol
 


Hey Parabol

Dont be afraid of your lucid dreaming, i have very very lucid dreams about once every 2 weeks at least, and i have had such lucid dreams that while im "dreaming" i have checked to see if my body is still there, i check everything that i could possibly check to see if im dreaming and sometimes there is almost no doubt that its "real" and not a dream, if you understand what i mean.

Infact sometimes the "dream" feels and looks so much more real than our physical reality, and after some of these lucid dreams i wake up and i didnt want to leave the lucid dream.

I have also noticed recently that i find i have lucid dreams more than i ever have done, i even had a lucid dream that felt like i was "home". I wont go more into that "dream" because it feels so private to me, but i will tell you that it was the best feeling i have every had, everything was so much more real than "real life" and no drug, no sex, no activity in our physical reality can ever ever come close to what i experienced.

Anyway, all i want to say is welcome to the club, you are VERY lucky to be able to do what you do, dont let anyone scare or make you afraid of your lucid abilities, it is a perfectly natural phenomenon, and because of the day and age we live in, the majority cannot do what we do and see it as some sort of mental illness or pre-illness, but let me tell you that it is NOT.

If i was to give my opinion of what lucid dreaming really is, i would say that it is a look into other dimensions that cannot be seen or accessed by our limited-filtering physical existence.

Also you are right to question this reality, its in your nature, and all the answers that you need to be able to make sense of this reality and lucid dreams will come to you through music,art,movies etc and the best thing is to listen to your own thoughts and dont let anyone else impose their own beliefs on you.

Best Regards.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by Parabol
 

I am very curious Parabol: In your dream state, it sounds like you have total control of "Now". Do you ever have control of time? Can you slow time down or speed it up?

I ask this because I wonder if you could get precognitive messages.

Here is an experiment that I would love for you to try: Suppose, in your lucid dream, you created a machine that could read the future. Or perhaps you could create a newspaper that contains tomorrow's news stories? If you could do any of that, it would offer incontrovertible proof of something good.

I am convinced that lucid dreams are much more than just a "wandering mind". Something is going on at a metaphysical (or perhaps "undiscovered physical") level. Any info on precognition, prescience, or prediction, with respect to lucid dreaming, would be appreciated.

My hypothesis: there is probably some barrier that prevents you from manipulating time, stopping time, speeding time up, or reading the future in your lucid dreams.

Only you can tell me that.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by markjaxson

I have also noticed recently that i find i have lucid dreams more than i ever have done, i even had a lucid dream that felt like i was "home". I wont go more into that "dream" because it feels so private to me, but i will tell you that it was the best feeling i have every had, everything was so much more real than "real life" and no drug, no sex, no activity in our physical reality can ever ever come close to what i experienced.


I know what you mean, always make me wonder the true extent of our literal 'feelings'. How much are they limited, not only by this world, but by our expectation or perception of their limits?

Have you thought about where your consciousness... is? I know that I used to associate it with the location of my brain. I questioned it's presence when I realized my vision had a large part to do with it. My perspective of the visual world is obviously centered on my eyes, but it's only where I receive the information. Light is encoded into electrical signals before they reach the brain, where they transform into a lovely picture. I think losing the sense of conscious attachment to my visual perspective has influenced my experience.

Where do we go when we close our eyes?



Also you are right to question this reality, its in your nature, and all the answers that you need to be able to make sense of this reality and lucid dreams will come to you through music,art,movies etc and the best thing is to listen to your own thoughts and dont let anyone else impose their own beliefs on you.


I hope it comes to me through music. I play guitar, piano, and sing. I seriously need to start playing more music while I'm lucid.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Buck Division

I am very curious Parabol: In your dream state, it sounds like you have total control of "Now". Do you ever have control of time? Can you slow time down or speed it up?


I've experienced the stoppage of time. There are certain dreams where I'm fully lucid but still bound to the plot of the dream. If I'm forced to stop and figure out my next move the perception of time may stop. I don't snap my fingers or anything, it just happens. I don't see everyone go from frozen to moving either. It restarts when I close my eyes or look away and look back. It think it partially has to deal with the internal perception of three dimensions.

For instance, you can only view a particular portion of the room while looking at this computer. Imagine a birds eye view of yourself sitting down. Now imagine everything is dark except for the area outlined by your vision, which would have a flashlight appearance. If you look around the room the flashlight area moves as well. I think our brain normally sticks to this processing while dreaming, and often while awake. To process all of the surrounding three dimensional information is a waste, it's easier to 'post' a 2d illusion of a 3d object.

I believe we have to override this shortcut to view or perceive true 3d depth. Look around the room, take into account the depth and weight of each object. Try to imagine it from all sides. Now when you look around the room don't take the flashlight approach. Instead, focus on a fixed object while moving your ./eyes/vision. You can encompass a large area of vision while focusing on the one object. Our eyes, or perception of, seem to float over this perspective. Like two blocks of ice sliding across each other.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right, but when I look at it the second way it feels like I'm aware of the entire room, at all times, regardless if I'm looking at it. It's this sense of knowing that it's always there, I just choose to focus on different parts and different times.

I feel that this comes off as very simple or pointless as I read this over. For me it increases depth, and grounds my body within it's surroundings. Yet at the same time it allows me to separate my mind. By differentiating what perceptions my mind has added or subtracted against what is actually there. It's like saying a word over and over again until it loses meaning and you hear it as only a sound. That is the shift in perspective I experience with this example.

By recognizing that feeling, and cutting it off within a dream, nothing has to be continuous. I could spin in a circle forever and always see something new, so long as I assume anything could be there.




Here is an experiment that I would love for you to try: Suppose, in your lucid dream, you created a machine that could read the future. Or perhaps you could create a newspaper that contains tomorrow's news stories? If you could do any of that, it would offer incontrovertible proof of something good.


Good idea. I will try something along these lines. As far as personal pre-cog dreams I haven't had many that could be tested. I've had a few concerning an end of the world scenario. I've seen tablets with various symbols shown to me, maps of the world, abstract things like that. But I have no way of knowing anything about them beyond their relation to each other.



My hypothesis: there is probably some barrier that prevents you from manipulating time, stopping time, speeding time up, or reading the future in your lucid dreams.


I believe within my dream I could do those things, now... do they have any connection to the real world? Ha, don't know, but it's a very interesting thought. We could also try some sort of dream experiment along the lines of meeting in a dream, creating a house or location to be defined by others, who knows. It's all an extraordinary longshot, but there's nothing to lose. Though it would freak me right the hell out



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:46 PM
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All of you guys are so lucky! I have a cardio problem for which I take medication. I don't have the luxury of choosing whether to have a lucid dream or note -- I have them every single time. Feels like working two jobs. I wish I just slept like a log.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Sorry to hear. You definitely don't get as much rest when it happens. Though I still find it odd that everyone retreats to their own little box, within their even bigger box, to shut themselves off every night.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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I am sure you are aware of the following, but thought I would inject it as a reminder.

Before Proceeding
I’d like to make sure that anyone reading this site is pursuing lucid dreaming for the right reasons and also understands the possible consequences involved with excessive force. First off, as will be suggested on the next page, lucid dreaming should not be used to escape from reality. I cannot stress that enough—there is a real world out there, and lucid dreaming is best used both as a recreational activity and to aid in personal development; lucid dreams should not be used as a vehicle to displace reality. Seven or eight hours of sleep per night is enough—don’t sleep your life away.

So far as excessive force goes, lucid dreaming is best sought after in moderation. We live in an impatient society with an addiction to and a learned-dependence of microwaves and instant-messaging. Allowing that attitude to percolate into your dream life could have a detrimental effect on something that was intended to help keep you healthy and clear-.ed. Thus, proceed slowly and don’t use too much force when experimenting with lucid dreams, and it is a good idea to take breaks from trying. You certainly don’t want to awake in the morning feeling exhausted, thus completely rescinding the purpose of sleep. If you find yourself feeling abnormally tired after beginning to attempt lucid dreaming, then lessen the frequency of your attempts—you may perhaps want to limit your attempts to the weekends only. Regardless, so long as you heed these warnings you have nothing to fear with having lucid dreams: lucid dreaming is completely safe if used responsibly.

Taken from: www.dreamviews.com...


[edit on 18-1-2008 by jdposey]



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Hey everyone, I've been a lucid dreamer for all my life and have done and seen quiet a few things, some of which I'm only now truly understanding. As far as making a "machine" that can see in the future, it's not necessary. That would be just a rule that you would be creating in your mind as a shield from the fear of what you think you might see in"the future", or to make yourself believe that you can actually do it. I have quiet a lot of experience with prophetic dreams and they come in different ways, some times coded in dream-sign, some an evolution of a scene to a moment of perceived "conscious reality" that comes to show itself when waking in life at a later time, and many other contexts as well. You can try to induce fore-sight, but just like when you're awake, it really is just a "guess" until the event comes to pass in a sense. Keep that in mind or it gets all too easy to start slanting what you saw to fit a situation or to fit a preconceived theory.

"excess" is also very much a relative term, gotta remember that. If you are lucid dreaming every night but are using it for positive reinforcement for your waking life(solidifying memories, overcoming fears etc), there is no harm, quiet the opposite actually. If you can maintain a positive goal and direction while dreaming, no matter how "active" it may be you will still wake up very much rested even if it seems like your brain never got a break. The majority of the time that is your perception that you make a physical reality as your brain will fire it's storm of energy during REM whether you remember it or not.

[edit on 20-1-2008 by Shakesbeer]

[edit on 20-1-2008 by Shakesbeer]




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